RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (Full Version)

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tweakabelle -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/6/2017 9:12:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Mostly we're fighting over fracking.

You know -- we have to frack for natural gas. There's nothing wrong with pumping toxic chemicals into the ground, and your flammable water faucet could be from any number causes completely unrelated to its starting when we started fracking.

I'm not going to provide you a link, but it's been determined that whole flammable water faucet thing was fake news drummed up by environmentalists to scare people.

I can provide a link: here you go.

... and here's a link to a river going on fire in NSW Australia

Isn't it amazing that the same "fake news drummed up by environmentalists to scare people" was happening here in Australia too, just as vividly as your link highlights but at about roughly the same time that the orange disaster started his assault on the "fake new" MSM, which kicked off the whole "fake news" issue. Such a coincidence! [:D]



Nnanji -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/6/2017 9:40:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle


quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Mostly we're fighting over fracking.

You know -- we have to frack for natural gas. There's nothing wrong with pumping toxic chemicals into the ground, and your flammable water faucet could be from any number causes completely unrelated to its starting when we started fracking.

I'm not going to provide you a link, but it's been determined that whole flammable water faucet thing was fake news drummed up by environmentalists to scare people.

I can provide a link: here you go.

... and here's a link to a river going on fire in NSW Australia

Isn't it amazing that the same "fake news drummed up by environmentalists to scare people" was happening here in Australia too, just as vividly as your link highlights but at about roughly the same time that the orange disaster started his assault on the "fake new" MSM, which kicked off the whole "fake news" issue. Such a coincidence! [:D]

A Green MP said its so, so fuck all of the scientists at the EPA. That's the way to think.



Musicmystery -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/6/2017 11:52:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

A lot of solar is oversold, admittedly.

Tesla's "cheap as roof" solar tiles are definitely not at this point -- it would be cheaper to get a roof and add solar panels. Cool idea, but not cheaper.

A lot of solar around here is sold to hippies as "no more expensive than over time." My partner wants solar based on this.

My finance background kicks in here and points out that no, if you put that investment in an index fund and added the income you would have had from that after taxes, indeed, you'd do better financially to invest it and let the investment pay your electric bill.

But it does keep coming down, and it is in reach for people who want it (my partner figures she'll do the "banking" option and then, since her roof will overproduce, use the excess by using as efficient an electric heat option she can find to heat the cooler areas -- not the surplus she sees, but at least a reasonable use of that money).

What's the weather like round your way and how much land do you have? A small windfarm can be a lot more effective than solar panels.

Yes, my thinking exactly. For my place, a single small windmill would generate most of my power. It's been a while since I ran numbers, so I'd have to look again at costs and current developments and so forth. I'm high in elevation, so reliable breeze year round. And we have 12 acres.



WhoreMods -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/6/2017 12:17:35 PM)

Just bear in mind that they make a lot of noise. With twelve acres you can put it a fair distance from the house, though...



WickedsDesire -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/6/2017 1:33:38 PM)

Thatcher



Awareness -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/6/2017 4:54:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The switch to renewables is pure economics.

Good old Conservative CAPITALISM
Technically, conservatives believe in rampant corporatism, not capitalism.



tweakabelle -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 2:57:43 AM)

A plan to build the world's biggest battery storage plant in South Australia was revealed yesterday.

"Elon Musk, the billionaire founder of Tesla, will build the world’s largest lithium ion battery to store renewable energy in South Australia in partnership with French energy utility Neoen. The 129MWh battery, which is paired with a wind farm, is designed to improve the security of electricity supplies across South Australia.
The Climate Council’s Tim Flannery said South Australia was leading the charge on Australia’s transition to renewable energy and storage technology. “South Australia is tackling climate change head-on and should be congratulated for its innovation and leadership as it transforms our energy system into one that’s clean, affordable, efficient and secure,” Flannery said.
[snip ...]
“Renewables like wind and solar are now the cheapest power source available. We need to roll out this technology swiftly in a bid to tackle climate change.”"
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/07/tesla-to-build-worlds-biggest-lithium-ion-battery-in-south-australia

Tesla has just completed the hand over of an 80MWh plant in California, which suggests that engineers have any "technical difficulties" well under control.



Musicmystery -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 6:29:36 AM)

Now they just need to work on getting the cost down.

$7000 for a battery can get steep quickly.



Hillwilliam -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 6:37:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

The switch to renewables is pure economics.

Good old Conservative CAPITALISM
Technically, conservatives believe in rampant corporatism, not capitalism.


That's Republicans.
Republicans stopped being conservatives a couple of decades ago.
Now, they're just Corporate Whores.



Nnanji -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 7:21:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Now they just need to work on getting the cost down.

$7000 for a battery can get steep quickly.

I'm not sure where your $7,000 came from. From Thompson's link, Tesla battery for about $7,000 included $1,000 for installation which I'd do myself and an inverter. My inverters run about $3,000 each. You need two that can stack if you want 110 and 220 in this country. So say, according to Thompson's link, $3,000 for a 13.5 kWh battery that must be replaced every three years. My lead acid batteries provide about 52 kwh's for about $3,300 and last seven to ten years from personal experience. As I said, energy storage is where R&D should be spent now. When you rely on the batteries 52kwh for four times the energy and two to three times the life cycle is a much better buy. In Teaks link, the battery for the plant was $50 million and since it's the same technology, just bigger, that three year life cycle is going to get expensive fast.

Again, from Thompson's link, a house (it says individual but I'll assume household) uses about 30kwh per day. A 13.5 kWh battery just isn't going to last long on cloudy days. So the household will be running generators or living off the power company. And, replacing $3,000 batteries even three years would buy a lot of electricity from the power company.



Musicmystery -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 7:22:29 AM)

Musk's solar roof requires a $7000 battery. Source: a Forbes article.

Point: despite the "no more expensive than a usual roof" claim, Musk's solar roof tiles aren't there yet in a competitive dollar sense.

Lots of topics in this thread. We're probably apples and oranges at this point.



Nnanji -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 7:29:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Musk's solar roof requires a $7000 battery. Source: a Forbes article.

Point: despite the "no more expensive than a usual roof" claim, Musk's solar roof tiles aren't there yet in a competitive dollar sense.

Lots of topics in this thread. We're probably apples and oranges at this point.

Business Insider Thompson link:

http://www.businessinsider.com/home-battery-rival-tesla-powerwall-2-2016-10/#the-powerwall-is-modular-so-you-can-link-up-to-nine-batteries-side-by-side-to-store-more-energy-tesla-estimates-it-will-cost-1000-to-install-the-powerwall-with-installations-beginning-january-2017-2

as I said early on. R&D for energy storage is where money should be spent. I'll agree apples and oranges.



WickedsDesire -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 2:35:39 PM)

i am for the best and you are not

[image]https://media.giphy.com/media/MkGyW2cOH7uhO/giphy.gif[/image]



thompsonx -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 2:46:13 PM)


ORIGINAL: Nnanji


as I said early on. R&D for energy storage is where money should be spent. I'll agree apples and oranges.


The problems of energy storage have been solved for a long time dumbass.



WickedsDesire -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 3:06:03 PM)

[image]https://images3.sw-cdn.net/product/picture/710x528_13542398_8431461_1459357703.jpg[/image]



thompsonx -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 3:13:37 PM)


ORIGINAL: Nnanji

I'm not sure where your $7,000 came from. From Thompson's link, Tesla battery for about $7,000
included $1,000 for installation which I'd do myself and an inverter. My inverters run about $3,000 each.
You need two that can stack if you want 110 and 220 in this country.


No you do not dumbass. zantrex and others make 120/220 inverters.

So say, according to Thompson's link, $3,000 for a 13.5 kWh battery that must be replaced every three years.


The batteries last 20+ years not three years dumbass.


My lead acid batteries provide about 52 kwh's for about $3,300


No they do not liar.

and last seven to ten years from personal experience.

All your experience is in your dreams.


As I said, energy storage is where R&D should be spent now. When you rely on the batteries 52kwh
for four times the energy and two to three times the life cycle is a much better buy. In Teaks link, the
battery for the plant was $50 million and since it's the same technology, just bigger, that three year
life cycle is going to get expensive fast.

Where are you getting this three year life cycle?

Again, from Thompson's link, a house (it says individual but I'll assume household) uses about 30kwh
per day. A 13.5 kWh battery just isn't going to last long on cloudy days. So the household will be
running generators or living off the power company. And, replacing $3,000 batteries even three years
would buy a lot of electricity from the power company.


Your bullshit argument only works with made up facts.
Jesus you are phoquing stupid.





thompsonx -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/7/2017 3:25:51 PM)


ORIGINAL: Nnanji



Again, from Thompson's link, a house (it says individual but I'll assume household) uses about 30kwh per day.

It is household.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=97&t=3



A 13.5 kWh battery just isn't going to last

If you are on battery only then you will need a bigger battery. Why is that so difficult for you to understand? If you are on the grid you need no battery.

long on cloudy days. So the household will be running generators or living off the power company. And, replacing $3,000 batteries even three years would
buy a lot of electricity from the power company.


Golf cart batteries have about a five year life expectancy. Li batteries tend to last somewhat longer.



Nnanji -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/9/2017 10:29:24 AM)

FR

No comments. Added for information.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/08/climate/rooftop-solar-panels-tax-credits-utility-companies-lobbying.html?action=click&contentCollection=Middle%20East&module=Trending&version=Full®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article



Musicmystery -> RE: World's Biggest Coal Company Closes 37 Mines as Solar Prices Plummet (7/9/2017 12:24:20 PM)

Thanks for the share.

I actually agree with the utilities on two points: 1) home owners should buy at retail and sell back at wholesale
(although the "banking" vs. "net metering" compromise holds merit). A lot of people don't get this (my partner will never understand).
2) as a natural monopoly, forced to take what the government can give them, fewer customers on the grid lowers their efficiencies of scale.

At the same time, a changing market means we adjust to the new market costs. But I also get that this can be difficult. Even in NY, where most power is hydro-electric (which can't be done everywhere on this scale--much of ours even comes from Canada), we also use nuclear, natural gas, and coal plants along with wind and solar.

And, when companies try to install industrial solar or wind, communities complain (for which I have no sympathy, incidentally).

I also get that the real problem is getting the changing demand for changing times and conditions in the right places at the right times among all this increasingly complex generation system is itself a major difficulty.




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