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Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 9:49:28 AM

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Okay, his way of dealing with his theory was flawed, i.e sending bombs to people in the mail, but he may have actually had a point.

For example:

I lived on Stock Island in the Florida keys for over three years. Did not own a car, since there was really no place to park, and either walked or rode a bicycle everywhere I needed to go (or took a skiff with a 20 hp outboard, you could tie up within walking distance of just about any store.)

But as soon as I returned to Texas, the first thing I did after getting off the plane was buy a pickup.

We are slaves to technology, even to the point where the government feeds the addiction to it, case in point, the Obama free phones.

How many of you leave the house for any length of time without your cell?

Look at a cell phone coverage map that has all carriers and you discover that with few exceptions, just about every part of the US east of the Rockies is covered, and the places west of the rockies that are not covered are the places where there is a population density of 1 person per ten square miles.

Then there are the people that make the statement "I dont watch tv."

Fine, they dont watch tv, but they have Netflix on the computers or tablets, six news feeds on the pc (or tablet) and a dvd/blue ray collection that boggles the mind.

I actually heard a college student complaining about a book that was required reading for a class because it was not available in ebook form!

You know, if there was ever a solar storm big enough to knock out every electronic device on the planet, the human race would go extinct

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 9:51:41 AM

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The Reagan free phones you mean. this is the 90's ............. get with it.

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 10:32:04 AM

stef

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You could have saved yourself a lot of typing and just posted "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 11:30:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing and just posted "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

You missed the point, but considering some of your past statements, it is expected.

Ted Kaczynski's manifesto was basically pointing out the serious flaws with the industrialized society and its dependence on technology.

While the essay is poorly written, the points made were valid, and as I said, his manner in trying to make his point, using bombs was flawed, to say the least.

Consider when cell phones first came out, only people that had the things were middle and upper management. Then suddenly everyone had to have one.

A new smartphone comes out, and people line up to get the damn things, even when the phone they have is less than a year old.

When a college student complains that a book they have to read for a class is not available in ebook format, I think that things have reached a tipping point. Hell my own grandson has a tablet and the only way he will bother with reading a book is through the ereader ap. I handed him a copy of the Adventures of Marco Polo that is over 80 years old and he complained it was too heavy, and that he could get the book for free from google.

Think about how dependent you are on the technological devices in your home.

I hear people say how they need a microwave. It makes things convenient, but it is not a need.

Ask an old school mechanic and they will tell you they can meet or even exceed the federal emission standards on a car without all the electronic bullshit simply by tuning it properly.

My great nephew starts kindergarden this year, and low and behold, one of the things he needs for school is an android or apple tablet. My nephew in Houston was informed he needed a laptop to take to school for high school, and that having a desktop at home would not be sufficient.

Someone asked me where a specific store was, and I told them, even started giving them directions and they politely said they would just put it in their gps.

So, I ask you, what would happen if all those devices stopped working?

Let me ask you this, do you have a standard corded phone in your home?

If you dont, what would you do if the power goes out and your cell phone is dead?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 11:36:22 AM

stef

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

You missed the point

You're mistaken.

quote:

but considering some of your past statements, it is expected.

Do tell.

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 1:30:50 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
You know, if there was ever a solar storm big enough to knock out every electronic device on the planet, the human race would go extinct

A lot of people would die, but I doubt it'd be an extinction level dieback.

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 7:32:21 PM

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Re the college textbook, you totally missed the point.

In e book reader format it costs $50, tops.
In print, upwards of $300.

The cost of college textbooks is significant. You can't get by with last year's edition because the publishers make minor changes that mean you have to buy the new edition, not a used one.

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 7:54:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
You know, if there was ever a solar storm big enough to knock out every electronic device on the planet, the human race would go extinct

A lot of people would die, but I doubt it'd be an extinction level dieback.

maybe not an extinction level event, but the biggest part of the population on this planet cant function without their electronics, and a good portion could not cook a meal without a microwave.

The funny thing is that the members of the HAM club I belong to give me a rash of crap because of all the vacuum tube radios I use, and the fact that every swap meet I go to, I either pick up more or get more tubes.

Contrary to popular belief, vacuum tubes are still in production, and at present I could blow every tube in all nine of my ancient boat anchor radios about 10 times and be up and running in about five minutes.

However, unlike solid state microprocessor electronics, a tube unit is less prone to blowing out due to a power surge, and if they do go, it is usually only one particular tube in the power supply.

Okay, so my room I use for my radio shack has two window AC units designed for rooms 4 times as big otherwise I would be sitting in a 400 square foot oven with 9 foot ceilings.

But in the winter, I can open the door to the shack and heat one end of the house with little problem.

The sad thing is that a solar event that could take out the power grid and damage electronic devices is not that far fetched. The event that triggered the massive blackout in the US Northeast and eastern Canada in the late sixties was just about strong enough and did cause serious problems with the early electronics of the day.

The worst part is that even if it did not directly effect the electronics, the power grid world wide is so sustainable to an electromagnetic solar event that the world could be blacked out in a minute and it would take years to fully restore power to customers.

And it is not transformers or substations that are the weak link, but the power lines themselves. They will take that electromagnetic energy, draw it in as current and overload the system. That was the cause of the last major black out in the US.

And while power companies are working to prevent it, to date only about two percent of the systems in jeopardy have been corrected. And to insulate transmission lines to prevent such an event, well you would end up with power lines that would be too heavy to have on power line towers.

Of course, how many people know that an electric motor can be an electric generator with very little modification?

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 8:23:13 PM

tj444

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Okay, his way of dealing with his theory was flawed, i.e sending bombs to people in the mail, but he may have actually had a point.

For example:

I lived on Stock Island in the Florida keys for over three years. Did not own a car, since there was really no place to park, and either walked or rode a bicycle everywhere I needed to go (or took a skiff with a 20 hp outboard, you could tie up within walking distance of just about any store.)

But as soon as I returned to Texas, the first thing I did after getting off the plane was buy a pickup.

We are slaves to technology, even to the point where the government feeds the addiction to it, case in point, the Obama free phones.

what kinda house you live in? why dont you live in a 350sqft tiny house? who needs a 1500sqft or even 1000sqft house? thats the same argument you are making.. I dont need a vehicle.. vehicles cost a shitload and most people are slaves to their trucks/cars... and the govt feeds your addiction (with poor planning & allowing sprawl, poor transit, etc).. Personally, I save a lot by not having one and using technology as much as possible instead..

btw, he said this..
"I don't think it can be done. In part because of the human tendency, for most people, there are exceptions, to take the path of least resistance. They'll take the easy way out, and giving up your car, your television set, your electricity, is not the path of least resistance for most people."

you ready to give up your truck, your tv, your electricity? cuz technology was in the dark ages back when he was doing his bombing, etc.. Everything is a double-edged sword, but the world and technology will march forward with or without you.. Your choice.. and you/your grandkids are gonna need to adapt when the robots take over 40% of all the jobs in the next 20 years..

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/2/2017 10:18:27 PM

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quote:

the Obama free phones

You mean the Reagan phone.

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/3/2017 4:48:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
You know, if there was ever a solar storm big enough to knock out every electronic device on the planet, the human race would go extinct

A lot of people would die, but I doubt it'd be an extinction level dieback.

maybe not an extinction level event, but the biggest part of the population on this planet cant function without their electronics, and a good portion could not cook a meal without a microwave.

The funny thing is that the members of the HAM club I belong to give me a rash of crap because of all the vacuum tube radios I use, and the fact that every swap meet I go to, I either pick up more or get more tubes.

Contrary to popular belief, vacuum tubes are still in production, and at present I could blow every tube in all nine of my ancient boat anchor radios about 10 times and be up and running in about five minutes.

However, unlike solid state microprocessor electronics, a tube unit is less prone to blowing out due to a power surge, and if they do go, it is usually only one particular tube in the power supply.

Okay, so my room I use for my radio shack has two window AC units designed for rooms 4 times as big otherwise I would be sitting in a 400 square foot oven with 9 foot ceilings.

But in the winter, I can open the door to the shack and heat one end of the house with little problem.

The sad thing is that a solar event that could take out the power grid and damage electronic devices is not that far fetched. The event that triggered the massive blackout in the US Northeast and eastern Canada in the late sixties was just about strong enough and did cause serious problems with the early electronics of the day.

The worst part is that even if it did not directly effect the electronics, the power grid world wide is so sustainable to an electromagnetic solar event that the world could be blacked out in a minute and it would take years to fully restore power to customers.

And it is not transformers or substations that are the weak link, but the power lines themselves. They will take that electromagnetic energy, draw it in as current and overload the system. That was the cause of the last major black out in the US.

And while power companies are working to prevent it, to date only about two percent of the systems in jeopardy have been corrected. And to insulate transmission lines to prevent such an event, well you would end up with power lines that would be too heavy to have on power line towers.

Of course, how many people know that an electric motor can be an electric generator with very little modification?

I'd hope anybody who did physics (or even general science) in high school has an idea how a motor and a generator operate and relate to one other.

Valves are still used in a lot of audio equipment: if you want to be bored to tears by a working guitarist or bassist, just ask them why solid state amplifiers aren't as good as analogue ones. That said. valves are fragile, even if they are less susceptible to power surges, which is why they've been phased out of a lot of stuff. (Of course, in this case the advantage is that they can be replaced if they blow, and that it's pretty obvious looking at one whether it still works or not. A trashed chip or transistor, on the other hand looks exactly the same as a working one.)

As for food preparation, yes, a lot of people will be lost if they can't just stick a tv dinner in the microwave, but rudimentary level cooking is a skill that can be learned, and hunger if often a powerful incentive towards that. What's more worrying than that, to my mind, is the number of people who wouldn't be able to find out the basics of food preparation without the internet.

(And I'm very aware of how dependent I am on the technologies in my home: once the fridge is dead and my insulin spoiled, there's no real point in my eating anyway. I'm probably not the best person to ask about that as a result.))

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/3/2017 8:34:59 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Ask an old school mechanic and they will tell you they can meet or even exceed the federal emission standards on a car without all the electronic bullshit simply by tuning it properly.

No they cannot! The last cars running carburetors were built in the 1980's.
Even those carburetors REQUIRE a computer that is tied into the O2 sensor
feedback loop or they cannot adjust fast enough to hold the metering tight
enough. With the computer out of the loop they barely run.

Catalytic converters were first fitted in the mid 70's. Those cars were not
computer controlled but they did NOT run as clean as the later ones. They
will run as well if you mean smooth, power, responsive, etc., but if you
put them on a smog machine the combustion is NOT as complete.

Nice overall rant about technology dependence though. Especially since
I have been discussing Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
with a friend of mine who was reading it for the first time.

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/3/2017 10:23:28 PM

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/4/2017 8:38:43 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: outlier

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Ask an old school mechanic and they will tell you they can meet or even exceed the federal emission standards on a car without all the electronic bullshit simply by tuning it properly.

No they cannot! The last cars running carburetors were built in the 1980's.
Even those carburetors REQUIRE a computer that is tied into the O2 sensor
feedback loop or they cannot adjust fast enough to hold the metering tight
enough. With the computer out of the loop they barely run.

Catalytic converters were first fitted in the mid 70's. Those cars were not
computer controlled but they did NOT run as clean as the later ones. They
will run as well if you mean smooth, power, responsive, etc., but if you
put them on a smog machine the combustion is NOT as complete.

Nice overall rant about technology dependence though. Especially since
I have been discussing Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
with a friend of mine who was reading it for the first time.

I disagree, but that is beside the point.

The real problem with the gasoline engine is the simple fact that they are only 20% efficient at converting fuel to energy. A diesel is 45% efficient.

Since the exhaust gases of both, and the resulting pollutants stem from this basic problem, both types of engines are never going to be clean.

The only truly efficient internal combustion engine for use in land (or sea) application was designed by Hellmuth Walter, which burned a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and diesel fuel. It was a turbine based engine that he developed for use in German Uboats in WW2 which would allow the engine to be run in a submarine completely submerged at speeds of 23 knots with little effort.

Exhaust gases were primarily O2 and water.

The engine design was used in a cold war era application by the west German navy for coastal defense submarines, with the result being a sub as fast and as quiet as a nuke boat without the problem of spent nuclear fuel disposal.

The same turbine design is equally adaptable to aircraft as well as land vehicle use, as well as electrical power generation.

Due to the nature of the hydrogen peroxide primary fuel component, it is essentially a closed circuit system up to the exhaust portion of the burn cycle, since hydrogen peroxide breaks down into water when exposed to air.

FYI, the reason the engine was never adapted to general use in the post WW2 era had nothing to do with the oil companies wanting to keep it secret to protect profits (most oil refining companies also produce the majority of high concentrate hydrogen peroxide) but due to the perceived cost of changing infrastructure for storage and transport of the fuel itself.

Which is significant initially but would eventually pay for itself.

A few countries, Norway is one, is currently studying the engine design as an alternative to other engines for both auto and power generation.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to outlier)

RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/11/2017 5:54:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
You could have saved yourself a lot of typing and just posted "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

But that's so fun! We had so much fun when we were teens and 20s telling everybody to fuck off, it's time we 'gave back to the community' in converse, as it were.

But really; these kids across the street from my old house started skateboarding on my driveway which was longer than theirs. I opened the side door next to the garage just to wander out, and they 'skated away.'

I put on my best commanding 'get off my lawn!' voice and said "Hey! Where are you going? Get back here!" They didn't come back, but they stopped, at least. "Just watch out for the cat, and don't make me have to fill out an insurance form if you break your knee, so don't break your knee."

My driveway was noisy and boisterous from then on, and house security was taken care of for much of the day, gratis, while I was at work.

Eventually, we will all have to find our own inner 'get off my lawn!' voice, deep within us, and and give thought as to how to express it to better purpose of society.

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/11/2017 6:27:46 PM

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I'm outside of the loop, because I haven't watched TV at all with any regularity since I was 15. I was tuned in to whatever my room mates were at the time were on occasion (some years later), but that's about it.

I was averse to blatant stupidity by that age, and it was not I who tuned them out as much as it was their tuning me out. I honestly don't know how people spend a dime on it.

For those paying attention, the issue with all the new technology is that quality of content has completely given way to means of transmission of any and whatever content. It is not inherent that new technology demeans quality of content, but that is how it's worked out, else we wouldn't have such a jackass such as we have now.

People need to quit cheering about the latest thing to ruin their vision and take a step back and look at the result every once in awhile.

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RE: Ted Kaczynski may have had a point - 8/13/2017 3:09:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

You could have saved yourself a lot of typing and just posted "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

Or, any iteration of "KIDS THESE DAYS!" that have been recorded in history since 20BC...

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