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Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans


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Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 6:42:21 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		A submissive friend of mine was telling me about a battle she and her Dom are having based on their decision not wanting to use a source of birthcontrol anymore. He doesn't want anymore kids (he has his own not by her), she wants them but agreed not to have any because he doesn't want anymore. He wants her to get the operations instead of him.

Now my question for Goreans is strictly a curiosity one of how people think and come to conclusions on what to do with their properties bodies:

If you the Man doesn't want kids or anymore kids and you own a slave who wouldn't mind having her own children but doesn't because you don't want any and she is well between child bearing years, so you look to operations i.e. tubes tied vs vasectomy.

Would you the Man have the woman who you own and is well within child bearing years who wouldn't mind having kids in her life, have her get her tubes tied, or would you the Man who doesn't want kids get the vasectomy so if something happens between you too, she could still have children with someone else?

Women, what do you think would be an appropriate decision on the part of a Man with his slave?

When you see your slave's body as yours, how do you handle decisions such as this where one day she may not be your slave but your decision for her will effect the rest of her life? Women, how do you deal with these types of decisions of your Master, knowing you are slave and he owns all of you, but he may not forever.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/28/2006 6:45:41 AM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 6:53:41 AM   
cinnfulhussy


Posts: 135
Joined: 1/30/2005
Status: offline 		We are kinda going through something like this.  Well sorta.... neither of us want children but I'm looking to get off hormonal BC.  The options we are considering at this time are vasectomy or an IUD. It will be Master's decision which.   In your friend's situation, I'd recommend the IUD as opposed to getting her tubes tied.  The IUD is not permanent, is good for 10 years, and can be removed should she get released and decide to have children.  Both the vasectomy and tubal ligation should be considered permanent methods of BC even though they technically are supposed to be reversible. (At great cost, no doubt!)

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 7:01:53 AM   
dincubus


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/22/2005
From: South Dakota
Status: offline 		In my case, i have 4 kids, one by my sub, and three by others. I have elected to get my tubes tied as such. And given other issues, it would be best for me to get my tubes tied. While it is a personal decision, it is infinately easier for the male to get the surgery done, rather than the female. less invasive and all


(in reply to cinnfulhussy)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 9:06:50 AM   
RedDragonFreehol


Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline 		Tal angel,

Or you could choose door number three, and have the slave on birth control, or use condoms, but if it comes down to operations, then I would have the slave tubiligated.  I never assume that she is not going to be my slave.  I do not put a permanent collar on a girl without it being a committment on my part to the rest of her life.  If she gets inside her own will, and leaves, then that is a choice she is making, and at that point, her being unable to bear children would be just one of the repercussions that she would have to bear as the result of her making choices that she should not have made.  Ultimately, it comes down to control, and the choice is one where a Master should demonstrate that the control is his.  It seems to me that by choosing this, it would provide one more incentive for the slave to remain with the Master.  It would make her less valuable in the eyes of others who might want a breeding animal.

Be well,


_____________________________

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

www.coloradogoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coloradogoreans

www.fraternalorderofgoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fraternalorde

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 9:54:15 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Personally I'm not in favour of any permanant solution a far as a slave goes but provided that medically she can handle it I'd have her use the implant pill. It works great for Neets even though I had a vasectomy years ago.. I dont assume that a sakve will be freed, but there is a good chance that she will outlive me which creates a new ball game.. Im concern is less of my making possibly irreversable decisions for her but her complete well being premanantly.. Gorean? Probably not but that is the way I look at things.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to RedDragonFreehol)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 11:18:52 AM   
RedDragonFreehol


Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline 		Tal IronBear,

This is by no means a given.  We are all getting older, and some of us have slaves much younger than we are, but they could do some silly kajira trick, and get run over by a tharlarion wagon (RTD Bus, similar concept) tomorrow.  You just never know.  And if we all mange to live to the mean age of humanity, even though one of my slaves is 16 years my junior, she will be well past child bearing years at the point I pass off this mortal coil at roughly 75 years of age (30 years down the road), so it would make little real difference in the long run.

Be well,


_____________________________

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

www.coloradogoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coloradogoreans

www.fraternalorderofgoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fraternalorde

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 12:10:52 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Women, what do you think would be an appropriate decision on the part of a Man with his slave?


I think whatever he decided would be the appropriate decision, if I was asked for input I would say that it should be me to undergo the surgery so he would not be caused any pain or discomfort from it.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 12:28:44 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		The age problem may not be an issue. Recercers are close to a major brakethough and it is asumed that in 10 to 30 years they will find a way to make us live for 50 or more years longer, and after that more brakethoughs will come.

i hope that if in a situation like this my future Master would get the operation as it is more easy on men, however it would be his choice to make.

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 12:40:58 PM   
RedDragonFreehol


Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline 		Tal cinnful,

Problem with the IUD is that there are a serious percentage of women who reject them.  My slave maliha developed a uterine infection about two months into her IUD that put her in the hospital for 4 days.  That apparently happens to nearly 12% of all women who have one implanted at some point, and our doctor is firmly under the belief that once a woman rejects one IUD that she is not a good candidate for future IUD's.  I am looking now at other options since she cannot use oral or injected birth control due to issues with her hormonal makeup.  It would be so nice if sip root was available on planet Earth, but alas, that is not an option.

Be well,


_____________________________

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

www.coloradogoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coloradogoreans

www.fraternalorderofgoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fraternalorde

(in reply to cinnfulhussy)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 12:56:24 PM   
RedDragonFreehol


Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline 		Tal nephandi,

They have been saying that for a decade now.  In fact, there is a great deal of research that indicates that diet plays a major part in the equation.  You are not going to see a pill or miraculous serums in the near future, and chances are that if it requires a complete change of eating habits or lifestyle to accomplish the "cure" for aging that many will choose to blow off the medical community as they have always done.  We have known for years that smoking is not good for us, yet nearly 40% of the population in America smokes, and smoking is actually decreasing in the male population while it is increasing in the female population.  High fat diets are known to cause obesity, yet we still grab that burger and fries with the tripple chocolate shake more often than we are going to order a salad with vinegrette dressing and a nice piece of poached fish.  Then there is the anticipated cost of the medicine to contend with.  Initially only those affluent may be able to afford it, and let's face it, the drug companies will have their profit margin.  I don't mean to be cinical, so, let's just say that I am not holding my breath for the next major medical breakthrough to solve all of our problems.  More of us need to die because the planet is already over its threshold for a manageable human population.  Like most of our "technological advancements" I can see where this will do a lot more harm than good.

Be well,


_____________________________

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

www.coloradogoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coloradogoreans

www.fraternalorderofgoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fraternalorde

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 2:09:45 PM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		i would change my diet for longavity, but i guess it is a choice pepole make Master, it is though as you say. my mother is a nature terapist and once a woman came to her complining over constant pain in the head, nothing worked. So Mama took and asked her if she drunk enough fluids, and the woman says she drunk two cups of coffe a day. Mama said it was not nearly enough but the woman resufed to drink a few glasses of liquid to make her health better, so yes, for many it may be as you say. But i Master am an optimist and an transhumanist and i dont plan on getting old an dying so i can hope.

(in reply to RedDragonFreehol)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 2:14:07 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		My owner did not want children of his own. He had me spayed. I had a tubal ligation almost two years ago. I did want more children. I wanted to remain his, more. It wasn't even something that required any debate, it was a simple this is what is going to happen discussion from him to me...he made clear what the consequences of not doing it would be as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

A submissive friend of mine was telling me about a battle she and her Dom are having based on their decision not wanting to use a source of birthcontrol anymore. He doesn't want anymore kids (he has his own not by her), she wants them but agreed not to have any because he doesn't want anymore. He wants her to get the operations instead of him.

Now my question for Goreans is strictly a curiosity one of how people think and come to conclusions on what to do with their properties bodies:

If you the Man doesn't want kids or anymore kids and you own a slave who wouldn't mind having her own children but doesn't because you don't want any and she is well between child bearing years, so you look to operations i.e. tubes tied vs vasectomy.

Would you the Man have the woman who you own and is well within child bearing years who wouldn't mind having kids in her life, have her get her tubes tied, or would you the Man who doesn't want kids get the vasectomy so if something happens between you too, she could still have children with someone else?

Women, what do you think would be an appropriate decision on the part of a Man with his slave?

When you see your slave's body as yours, how do you handle decisions such as this where one day she may not be your slave but your decision for her will effect the rest of her life? Women, how do you deal with these types of decisions of your Master, knowing you are slave and he owns all of you, but he may not forever.

angel

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 2:41:51 PM   
RedDragonFreehol


Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline 		Tal nephandi,

I would be interested in how that works - a transhumanist Gorean sounds like a contradiction in terms.... actually, it is a contradiction in terms since transhumanism by definition is that arm of the secular humanist philosophies which sees technology as savior, and with humanity achieving ultimately god-like status through extending life-spans until human beings are immortal.  Problem being that Gorean philosophy is a reactive naturalism, and sees technology as anything but a savior, since it allows for the interruption of nature through technological intervention.  The transhumanist perspective has even been rejected by most of the mainstream humanist groups because of this technological focus.  Others have described transhumanism as future looking from the humanist perspective, and that seems to be at odds generally with the reactive nature of Gorean Philosophy with its idea that what we need is to become less technological, and return to the roots of our nature.  As with any two philosophies, they do have some ideas in common, but it depends on the platform on which that idea is supported as to whether it is compatible or not with another philosophical outlook, and I am not buying the idea that you can wed a reactive naturalism to any form of humanism, let alone one as avante guarde as transhumanism, and get anything that could be declared Gorean out of the mix.

Just some thoughts.

Be well,




_____________________________

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

www.coloradogoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coloradogoreans

www.fraternalorderofgoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fraternalorde

(in reply to nephandi)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 4:13:31 PM   
FrankAr


Posts: 602
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings angel,

The topic peaked my interest, so I thought that I would reply.

I am not  a Gor person to meet with a kajira and just within the first few mins tell her to open and let me have my way, nahh, not me.  I am a very personal type of person, it takes a lot to get into the intimate stage.  This stage should always be taken seriously and slowly, and that is why I know that the female would not be using the pill or me a condom, it will be natural.

The female I am talking with now, well she already has children, but is still fertile.  I will go down the road of being just natural, and let the future be taken within our hearts.  This is the best thing for anyone to do.  If we have children, then so be it, if we don't, then that is life.  I don't get into a fuss about little things like that.

If I had started talking with a female and she had already had her tubes tied, then so be it, I would not just discard her and then search for someone whom I can have children with.  I do not think of the relationship with the female as in a few years, but for decades, simple. 

The other thought, what if the female was child bearing, and then complications come about in life and she has to have a misectomy...wrong spelling....would the Master than leave her, He is shallow if He did.  Every person has an opinion, and every relationship has its own course. 

Be well and take care.

Master Frank Ar.

< Message edited by FrankAr -- 7/28/2006 4:15:58 PM >

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 8:00:18 PM   
bucky5000


Posts: 24
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		I cannot believe you men who would force the woman you supposedly love to endure a serious and invasive surgery, with months of recovery time, just to avoid a trip for yourselves to the doc's office, a little anesthetic, and a snip. The difference between a woman having her tubes tied and a man getting a vasectomy are huge in terms of the seriousness. I don't agree with the Gorean philosophy in general, but whatever, i believe people can live their lives however they want, it's just not for me. However, when you become someone's master, and this person gives control of their lives and body to you, in return do they not expect and deserve that you will care for and protect this gift they have given over to you? Violating her body with an unnecesary and possibly complicated surgery does not seem to fit in the area of protecting her from harm. I realize i am just an outsider who doesn;t understand the complexities of these relationships, but if you are looking at someone as property, then do you not want to keep your property as whole and as complete as possible?

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 8:11:46 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline
quote:

However, when you become someone's master, and this person gives control of their lives and body to you, in return do they not expect and deserve that you will care for and protect this gift they have given over to you?

You answered your own question, as you clearly stated it.   As far as gift goes, that's a whole other chatism issue.

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to bucky5000)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 8:22:14 PM   
bucky5000


Posts: 24
Joined: 11/8/2005
Status: offline 		but does there not have to be some responsibility for health and safety? for example, if a master told the slave to kill themselves, would they have to do it? what if he said to kill someone else? I would think that having this sort of control over another human being would be the same as having control over a child, or power of attorney with an older or incapacitated person....you are authorized to make decisions regarding their lives, but in return, you have to protect them to the best of your ability. Forcing a life altering and unessential operation is not protecting them from avoidable harm.

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 8:27:59 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Being as you did post this in the Gorean forum and i am clearly not Gorean, i just happily reside here with TONS of questions, and so far they have been polite enough to answer them.  It's only right that some of the Goreans answer this.  I only gave you my take on it. 
As far as a Master and the whole killing thing goes, there are quite a few threads on this in other forums.

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to bucky5000)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 8:48:27 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		smilezz, i the for Goreans was simply to keep the topic within a Gorean perspective of people who want to leanr or undertand or have a positive interest in Gor.. i don't know how else to put it other than For Goreans lol to keep the subject of the topic i.e. in a Gorean forum somehow in focus.  If that makes sense.  i didn't want an all out war starting with Goreans trying to explain to people who have no positive interest in Gorean or want to understand Gorean, and it become a big mess.  Please feel free to ask questions, this forum is after  all for learning Gorean too.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 7/28/2006 8:50:25 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Decisions regarding birthcontrol - for Goreans - 7/28/2006 8:52:29 PM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks angel, that is exactly why i replied as i did above.  I feel passionately about what was said, but quite honestly, this is not the forum that i need to voice that in.  While i understand that quite honestly, i can..........i choose to not do that here.

~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 20
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