quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


When each gun law is passed the proponents who had hailed as "the fix"
start calling it a beginning. Have you ever considered a beginning for what?
You also don't understand what "the militia" meant when I stop a person from
messing around my neighbors house I am filling their definition of the militia.
When people stopped a rape and held the attacker for the police that was
the militia. Now you tell me that because my right leg won't let me march I no longer
have the right to own a firearm and by extension my right to self defense is
out the window.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

How is the federal government going to seize over 270 million guns?
Especially from people who would rather kill/die than give them up?

I would really like to know how anyone can think that the situation isn't utterly hopeless.

It is simple.
They won't grab the 200 million guns at once.
First they will outlaw any gun that holds over 7 rounds and confiscate them.
They will tell us this isn't confiscation because we still have guns.
Then they will outlaw any long guns that holds more than 4 because you can't
use them for hunting. And it still won't be confiscation because will still have guns.
Then they will outlaw ......

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


When each gun law is passed the proponents who had hailed as "the fix"
start calling it a beginning. Have you ever considered a beginning for what?
You also don't understand what "the militia" meant when I stop a person from
messing around my neighbors house I am filling their definition of the militia.
When people stopped a rape and held the attacker for the police that was
the militia. Now you tell me that because my right leg won't let me march I no longer
have the right to own a firearm and by extension my right to self defense is
out the window.

Gee, I am on disability for a serious back problem and I am a member of the state militia.

However, due to the fact I have a HAM license they are not concerned so much with my ability to march as my ability to maintain effective communications.

Bama, you are trying to argue a point that, in actuality makes little sense.

Technically, every time you buy a firearm it IS registered, the only thing is that the retailer keeps the forms instead of sending them to some government agency.

If any agency wanted to confiscate weapons in the hands of civilians, all they have to do is go to all the retailers and pick up those forms.

You acknowledge the fact that the laws in place prevent confiscation, you even acknowledged the supreme court has ruled every case where a citizen's guns were confiscated has been in the favor of gun owners.

But you are really pushing the what if argument when it comes to registration.

But you also pointed out that they could start by banning guns with magazine capacity of over 7 rounds, and then use the registration forms to come and get them.

The forms kept by the retailers is all they need now if they do something like that.

What is to stop them?

The point I am trying very hard to make is the hard line on both sides is gonna end up biting us all in the ass.

And every time there is some incident like Vegas or Sandy Hook or Columbine or some other mass shooting the gun law lobby gains ground. And the hard line stance is giving it to them.

Yes, you defending your neighbor's property is very much in the line of the unorganized militia. The business owners in the LA riots were doing the same damn thing, and the courts recognized it as such.

As it stands now, the only legal, constitutional confiscation of guns is those belonging to people that are no longer legally allowed to have them. Yes, some fucking dick headed politicians tried to over step it, and people got fucked in the process, but, if we as gun owners dont stand up and do something to take the fucking bite out of some of the anti gun or more gun law arguments, we will eventually get fucked over with no recourse.

Christ I got a piece of property that is 250 acres, and a few 'well meaning neighbors' call the law every time I go over and shoot. The local sheriff deputies are tired of having to come by, the local dispatcher is tired of the bullshit calls, and I am not all that happy to see four squad cars pull up next to my barn.

The range I work part time at is constantly getting noise complaints filed against them, which means the owner has to go down to some hearing, he knows he is going to win the case, but it does not stop the bullshit.

Right now, if it was up to me, I buy every gun law proponent a one way ticket to whatever gun free country they want.

I am sick of hearing the 'second amendment was never meant for modern firearms' when in the same breath the preach how the bill of rights applies to the internet, cell phones, computers and every other modern technology that the founding fathers and framers of the constitution could never have dreamed of.

What is worse, is the gun laws we have now, were the products of some give and take, and gun owners won. We need to get back to that, or eventually we will lose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


When each gun law is passed the proponents who had hailed as "the fix"
start calling it a beginning. Have you ever considered a beginning for what?
You also don't understand what "the militia" meant when I stop a person from
messing around my neighbors house I am filling their definition of the militia.
When people stopped a rape and held the attacker for the police that was
the militia. Now you tell me that because my right leg won't let me march I no longer
have the right to own a firearm and by extension my right to self defense is
out the window.

Gee, I am on disability for a serious back problem and I am a member of the state militia.

However, due to the fact I have a HAM license they are not concerned so much with my ability to march as my ability to maintain effective communications.

Bama, you are trying to argue a point that, in actuality makes little sense.

Technically, every time you buy a firearm it IS registered, the only thing is that the retailer keeps the forms instead of sending them to some government agency.

If any agency wanted to confiscate weapons in the hands of civilians, all they have to do is go to all the retailers and pick up those forms.

You acknowledge the fact that the laws in place prevent confiscation, you even acknowledged the supreme court has ruled every case where a citizen's guns were confiscated has been in the favor of gun owners.

But you are really pushing the what if argument when it comes to registration.

But you also pointed out that they could start by banning guns with magazine capacity of over 7 rounds, and then use the registration forms to come and get them.

The forms kept by the retailers is all they need now if they do something like that.

What is to stop them?

The point I am trying very hard to make is the hard line on both sides is gonna end up biting us all in the ass.

And every time there is some incident like Vegas or Sandy Hook or Columbine or some other mass shooting the gun law lobby gains ground. And the hard line stance is giving it to them.

Yes, you defending your neighbor's property is very much in the line of the unorganized militia. The business owners in the LA riots were doing the same damn thing, and the courts recognized it as such.

As it stands now, the only legal, constitutional confiscation of guns is those belonging to people that are no longer legally allowed to have them. Yes, some fucking dick headed politicians tried to over step it, and people got fucked in the process, but, if we as gun owners dont stand up and do something to take the fucking bite out of some of the anti gun or more gun law arguments, we will eventually get fucked over with no recourse.

Christ I got a piece of property that is 250 acres, and a few 'well meaning neighbors' call the law every time I go over and shoot. The local sheriff deputies are tired of having to come by, the local dispatcher is tired of the bullshit calls, and I am not all that happy to see four squad cars pull up next to my barn.

The range I work part time at is constantly getting noise complaints filed against them, which means the owner has to go down to some hearing, he knows he is going to win the case, but it does not stop the bullshit.

Right now, if it was up to me, I buy every gun law proponent a one way ticket to whatever gun free country they want.

I am sick of hearing the 'second amendment was never meant for modern firearms' when in the same breath the preach how the bill of rights applies to the internet, cell phones, computers and every other modern technology that the founding fathers and framers of the constitution could never have dreamed of.

What is worse, is the gun laws we have now, were the products of some give and take, and gun owners won. We need to get back to that, or eventually we will lose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

get off the forum and get the help you need.

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: heavyblinker

How is the federal government going to seize over 270 million guns?
Especially from people who would rather kill/die than give them up?

I would really like to know how anyone can think that the situation isn't utterly hopeless.

It is simple.
They won't grab the 200 million guns at once.
First they will outlaw any gun that holds over 7 rounds and confiscate them.
They will tell us this isn't confiscation because we still have guns.
Then they will outlaw any long guns that holds more than 4 because you can't
use them for hunting. And it still won't be confiscation because will still have guns.
Then they will outlaw ......

Oh FFS that is just a hopelessly paranoid delusion.

If you were currently allowed to own a military-grade drone armed with nuclear weapons, the moment someone suggested it was dangerous you would be ranting about the second amendment and crying fascism, and the GOP and the NRA would be backing you up and feeding you all of the delusions and lies you need to make sure your outrage was impossible to counteract in any way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr from this post, dated 14 JUN, 2016


I wish I could have chosen more than one answer in this little survey. Ultimately, I chose: "I don't need a reason. It's my right." There's a bit of an explanation that needs to go, here:

I was going to chose: " ... to defend myself and others from tyranny" and that's valid, but it's so much more basic than that. A free man has the right to keep himself free. He has a right and an obligation to provide for his family. I'm not talking about hunting, here (I don't hunt). I'm talking about providing for them by keeping them safe.

There is a direct correlation between being able to express yourself, freely and being able to defend yourself, freely. A lot of people don't get that. Quite frankly, if it weren't for the use of weapons, Africans might still be slaves, in this country.

The civil war aside, let's please remember that some of the earliest gun control laws in this country were to keep arms out of slaves' hands. That's fact. Those laws were, then, changed during our horrific "Jim Crow" era. Africans were no longer slaves, but southerners were doing everything thing they could to find every nook and cranny in the federal regulations to continue life as it had been.

Why were they doing this? It's simple: Free men, with the ability to defend themselves were a danger to the southerners because those free men wouldn't have had to tolerate the bullshit that the plantation owner mentality was throwing down.

When the CRA was signed and the segregationist bullshit was finally put to grass, the KKK (and others) suddenly became a lot less ballsy in their attacks because law-abiding, FREE, African Americans suddenly had the true ability to defend themselves.

Let's bring it to today, now: I believe this government is on the very verge of tyranny. Taxation without representation is rampant. Freedom of religion is an anachronistic fantasy. Thought crimes are firmly ensconced.

So, why is there a large portion of people that are so ginned up on gun control. That's easy, too. For the most part, they are cradle-to-grave-government leeches, in that that's what they want the government to do for them. How will the government accomplish that? Well, a start is if you re-visit these words:

"Free men, with the ability to defend themselves were a danger to the southerners Federal Government because those free men wouldn't have had to tolerate the bullshit that the plantation owner We're-not-public-servants-we're-your-overlords mentality was throwing down.

This country absolutely is engaged in a civil war where totalitarian asswipes are attempting to un-do everything (good and bad) that's been done.

That's not the America for which I fought and my son died.



Michael

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


When each gun law is passed the proponents who had hailed as "the fix"
start calling it a beginning. Have you ever considered a beginning for what?
You also don't understand what "the militia" meant when I stop a person from
messing around my neighbors house I am filling their definition of the militia.
When people stopped a rape and held the attacker for the police that was
the militia. Now you tell me that because my right leg won't let me march I no longer
have the right to own a firearm and by extension my right to self defense is
out the window.

Gee, I am on disability for a serious back problem and I am a member of the state militia.

However, due to the fact I have a HAM license they are not concerned so much with my ability to march as my ability to maintain effective communications.

Bama, you are trying to argue a point that, in actuality makes little sense.

Technically, every time you buy a firearm it IS registered, the only thing is that the retailer keeps the forms instead of sending them to some government agency.

If any agency wanted to confiscate weapons in the hands of civilians, all they have to do is go to all the retailers and pick up those forms.

You acknowledge the fact that the laws in place prevent confiscation, you even acknowledged the supreme court has ruled every case where a citizen's guns were confiscated has been in the favor of gun owners.

But you are really pushing the what if argument when it comes to registration.

But you also pointed out that they could start by banning guns with magazine capacity of over 7 rounds, and then use the registration forms to come and get them.

The forms kept by the retailers is all they need now if they do something like that.

What is to stop them?

The point I am trying very hard to make is the hard line on both sides is gonna end up biting us all in the ass.

And every time there is some incident like Vegas or Sandy Hook or Columbine or some other mass shooting the gun law lobby gains ground. And the hard line stance is giving it to them.

Yes, you defending your neighbor's property is very much in the line of the unorganized militia. The business owners in the LA riots were doing the same damn thing, and the courts recognized it as such.

As it stands now, the only legal, constitutional confiscation of guns is those belonging to people that are no longer legally allowed to have them. Yes, some fucking dick headed politicians tried to over step it, and people got fucked in the process, but, if we as gun owners dont stand up and do something to take the fucking bite out of some of the anti gun or more gun law arguments, we will eventually get fucked over with no recourse.

Christ I got a piece of property that is 250 acres, and a few 'well meaning neighbors' call the law every time I go over and shoot. The local sheriff deputies are tired of having to come by, the local dispatcher is tired of the bullshit calls, and I am not all that happy to see four squad cars pull up next to my barn.

The range I work part time at is constantly getting noise complaints filed against them, which means the owner has to go down to some hearing, he knows he is going to win the case, but it does not stop the bullshit.

Right now, if it was up to me, I buy every gun law proponent a one way ticket to whatever gun free country they want.

I am sick of hearing the 'second amendment was never meant for modern firearms' when in the same breath the preach how the bill of rights applies to the internet, cell phones, computers and every other modern technology that the founding fathers and framers of the constitution could never have dreamed of.

What is worse, is the gun laws we have now, were the products of some give and take, and gun owners won. We need to get back to that, or eventually we will lose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You don't understand. I can barely use my right arm, and my right leg is worse, so no, I couldn't be in an organized militia.
If you read the 2nd again you will see that it does not only hold for those people in a militia let alone an organized militia.

quote:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

quote:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

You don't understand. I can barely use my right arm, and my right leg is worse, so no, I couldn't be in an organized militia.
If you read the 2nd again you will see that it does not only hold for those people in a militia let alone an organized militia.

The second amendment

quote:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes

quote:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Now, in case you have not grasped the concept of unorganized

:not organized: such as
a :not brought into a coherent or well-ordered whole


Now, given your admitted impairments, as a registered gun owner, under the English common law which the United States adopted, you would be categorized as part of the unorganized militia, in other words, garrison duty, i.e, manning a desk, organizing logistics, or all the jobs that you can do, and thus allowing someone with a bit more mobility and ability to perform tasks and duties in the field.

As I stated god knows how many times, I have a bad back and very bad knees, the only function I could serve in the field is that of bait.

However, I also happen to have a HAM license, and since my interest in the hobby outside of talking to people in other countries, is in what is known as homebrew (designing and building custom radios and antennas) and refurbing boat anchors (bringing old, out dated radios back to life.)

So, not only do I know how to handle emergency radio communications, I can pretty much fix or modify radios from vacuum tube units to the modern stuff. So, on the annual emergency drills held by the local unit, I spend my time with the radios.

So, in other words, since in my army years, I never saw a garrison trooper in the field without at least a side arm, you would have absolutely no function that would aid the community in the event of an emergency when the governor called for both the state organized and unorganized (volunteers) to come out and render aid to the community?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
So, not only do I know how to handle emergency radio communications, I can pretty much fix or modify radios from vacuum tube units to the modern stuff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


When each gun law is passed the proponents who had hailed as "the fix"
start calling it a beginning. Have you ever considered a beginning for what?
You also don't understand what "the militia" meant when I stop a person from
messing around my neighbors house I am filling their definition of the militia.
When people stopped a rape and held the attacker for the police that was
the militia. Now you tell me that because my right leg won't let me march I no longer
have the right to own a firearm and by extension my right to self defense is
out the window.

Gee, I am on disability for a serious back problem and I am a member of the state militia.

However, due to the fact I have a HAM license they are not concerned so much with my ability to march as my ability to maintain effective communications.

Bama, you are trying to argue a point that, in actuality makes little sense.

Technically, every time you buy a firearm it IS registered, the only thing is that the retailer keeps the forms instead of sending them to some government agency.

If any agency wanted to confiscate weapons in the hands of civilians, all they have to do is go to all the retailers and pick up those forms.

You acknowledge the fact that the laws in place prevent confiscation, you even acknowledged the supreme court has ruled every case where a citizen's guns were confiscated has been in the favor of gun owners.

But you are really pushing the what if argument when it comes to registration.

But you also pointed out that they could start by banning guns with magazine capacity of over 7 rounds, and then use the registration forms to come and get them.

The forms kept by the retailers is all they need now if they do something like that.

What is to stop them?

The point I am trying very hard to make is the hard line on both sides is gonna end up biting us all in the ass.

And every time there is some incident like Vegas or Sandy Hook or Columbine or some other mass shooting the gun law lobby gains ground. And the hard line stance is giving it to them.

Yes, you defending your neighbor's property is very much in the line of the unorganized militia. The business owners in the LA riots were doing the same damn thing, and the courts recognized it as such.

As it stands now, the only legal, constitutional confiscation of guns is those belonging to people that are no longer legally allowed to have them. Yes, some fucking dick headed politicians tried to over step it, and people got fucked in the process, but, if we as gun owners dont stand up and do something to take the fucking bite out of some of the anti gun or more gun law arguments, we will eventually get fucked over with no recourse.

Christ I got a piece of property that is 250 acres, and a few 'well meaning neighbors' call the law every time I go over and shoot. The local sheriff deputies are tired of having to come by, the local dispatcher is tired of the bullshit calls, and I am not all that happy to see four squad cars pull up next to my barn.

The range I work part time at is constantly getting noise complaints filed against them, which means the owner has to go down to some hearing, he knows he is going to win the case, but it does not stop the bullshit.

Right now, if it was up to me, I buy every gun law proponent a one way ticket to whatever gun free country they want.

I am sick of hearing the 'second amendment was never meant for modern firearms' when in the same breath the preach how the bill of rights applies to the internet, cell phones, computers and every other modern technology that the founding fathers and framers of the constitution could never have dreamed of.

What is worse, is the gun laws we have now, were the products of some give and take, and gun owners won. We need to get back to that, or eventually we will lose.