quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

there is no universal truth.

This might have been the best place to initiate this conversation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

there is no universal truth.

This might have been the best place to initiate this conversation.

Well there are universal truths such as math and certain of our laws of physics. However, science is never settled on almost all of the laws of the universe and has allowed how it was, that this patent clerk came along and told everybody...Newton was wrong.

That patent clerk Einstein...was correct. Newton's previous math was not the whole truth.

On the subject of what truth is, existence is a truth, gravity, magnetism i.e., certain physical and mathematical 'truths' are universal truths.

The rest is conversation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
there is no universal truth.

This might have been the best place to initiate this conversation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

"I think we can all agree that in terms of our collective human experience, truths definitely exist. "

Perhaps so, but that only shifts the goalposts. Instead of arguing about whether any truth can be universal, we end up arguing about whether proposed truth X is actually truth or something else.

The discussion is endless unless we agree in advance what criteria must be employed to distinguish 'truth' from 'non-truth, ie unless we apply mutually agreed (and therefore necessarily subjective) criteria we have no means of identifying 'truth' from 'non-truth'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Isn't the statement 'Every truth is just subjective' itself asserted as an objective truth? Just asking.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There is a difference, a vast difference, between the philosophical notions of universal 'truths' I have in mind and the kind of "alternative facts" that you are focusing on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There is a difference, a vast difference, between the philosophical notions of universal 'truths' I have in mind and the kind of "alternative facts" that you are focusing on.

Of course there is, but do you honestly expect the mouthbreathing droolers who voted the tangerine bawbag to understand the notion of Platonic ideals? They're not interested in philosophy or abstract notions about objectivity, they just want to scream and shout that the bullshit thy choose to believe is just as true as any facts that the lying liberal media can produce, so there!
It'd be funny if it wasn't so fucking pathetic...

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There is a difference, a vast difference, between the philosophical notions of universal 'truths' I have in mind and the kind of "alternative facts" that you are focusing on.

Of course there is, but do you honestly expect the mouthbreathing droolers who voted the tangerine bawbag to understand the notion of Platonic ideals? They're not interested in philosophy or abstract notions about objectivity, they just want to scream and shout that the bullshit thy choose to believe is just as true as any facts that the lying liberal media can produce, so there!
It'd be funny if it wasn't so fucking pathetic...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

There is a difference, a vast difference, between the philosophical notions of universal 'truths' I have in mind and the kind of "alternative facts" that you are focusing on.

Of course there is, but do you honestly expect the mouthbreathing droolers who voted the tangerine bawbag to understand the notion of Platonic ideals? They're not interested in philosophy or abstract notions about objectivity, they just want to scream and shout that the bullshit thy choose to believe is just as true as any facts that the lying liberal media can produce, so there!
It'd be funny if it wasn't so fucking pathetic...

I do sympathise with your exasperation. But unfortunately the abuse of the notion of truth by Trump and his troglodytes is not an adequate reason to rush to embrace the slippery questionable notion of 'universal truth'.

In politics, the battle for one truth over another is an eternal one. It is usually won by those who present the best description of 'reality', and persuade others to agree to a sensible course of action based on that analysis. Usually but not always. The dangers of demagoguery, so clearly amplified by Trump, are ever present. If one's point of view fails to be successful in the battle of ideas, then really it is preferable to examine why that is, why people are not responding to one's message and to develop more successful ways of communicating one's ideas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

Isn't the statement 'Every truth is just subjective' itself asserted as an objective truth? Just asking.

Yes - in the same sense as "all generalisations are wrong including this one"

From where I sit, it might be thought of more productively as one of the many paradoxes inherent in the notion of 'universal truth'.

quote:


In politics, the battle for one truth over another is an eternal one. It is usually won by those who present the best description of 'reality', and persuade others to agree to a sensible course of action based on that analysis. Usually but not always. The dangers of demagoguery, so clearly amplified by Trump, are ever present. If one's point of view fails to be successful in the battle of ideas, then really it is preferable to examine why that is, why people are not responding to one's message and to develop more successful ways of communicating one's ideas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In an era of the 24 hour news cycle, with each political philosophy having its own propaganda machine, i.e FOX News, MSNBC, and each having its own staff of spin doctors not to mention the spin doctors on every political staff, the simple fact of the matter is that these people can and will make shit look like a rose and get the people to believe it smells just as sweet.

It is therefore true that truth, in anything other than science, is nothing more than subjective.

Trump makes the claim that the Obama administration bugged Trump tower, and then uses the fact that the DoJ was investigating one of the staffers on his campaign staff to prove his point.

A video comes out during the election that portrays Trump as little better than a sexual predator, and he says he was 'playing for the camera,' and is elected.

Harvey Weinstein comes along, and everyone is wanting to hang him by his balls, liberals and conservatives alike, and while granted he was much worse, some of his actions were no different than Trump's.

In this day and age, the following is true:
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
― George Orwell, 1984

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In an era of the 24 hour news cycle, with each political philosophy having its own propaganda machine, i.e FOX News, MSNBC, and each having its own staff of spin doctors not to mention the spin doctors on every political staff, the simple fact of the matter is that these people can and will make shit look like a rose and get the people to believe it smells just as sweet.

It is therefore true that truth, in anything other than science, is nothing more than subjective.

Trump makes the claim that the Obama administration bugged Trump tower, and then uses the fact that the DoJ was investigating one of the staffers on his campaign staff to prove his point.

A video comes out during the election that portrays Trump as little better than a sexual predator, and he says he was 'playing for the camera,' and is elected.

Harvey Weinstein comes along, and everyone is wanting to hang him by his balls, liberals and conservatives alike, and while granted he was much worse, some of his actions were no different than Trump's.

In this day and age, the following is true:
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Just like Masters do to slaves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In an era of the 24 hour news cycle, with each political philosophy having its own propaganda machine, i.e FOX News, MSNBC, and each having its own staff of spin doctors not to mention the spin doctors on every political staff, the simple fact of the matter is that these people can and will make shit look like a rose and get the people to believe it smells just as sweet.

It is therefore true that truth, in anything other than science, is nothing more than subjective.

Trump makes the claim that the Obama administration bugged Trump tower, and then uses the fact that the DoJ was investigating one of the staffers on his campaign staff to prove his point.

A video comes out during the election that portrays Trump as little better than a sexual predator, and he says he was 'playing for the camera,' and is elected.

Harvey Weinstein comes along, and everyone is wanting to hang him by his balls, liberals and conservatives alike, and while granted he was much worse, some of his actions were no different than Trump's.

In this day and age, the following is true:
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Just like Masters do to slaves.

Not really. Last time I checked, gaslighting is just as frowned upon in a bdsm relationship as it is in the vanilla world. More so, if anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In an era of the 24 hour news cycle, with each political philosophy having its own propaganda machine, i.e FOX News, MSNBC, and each having its own staff of spin doctors not to mention the spin doctors on every political staff, the simple fact of the matter is that these people can and will make shit look like a rose and get the people to believe it smells just as sweet.

It is therefore true that truth, in anything other than science, is nothing more than subjective.

Trump makes the claim that the Obama administration bugged Trump tower, and then uses the fact that the DoJ was investigating one of the staffers on his campaign staff to prove his point.

A video comes out during the election that portrays Trump as little better than a sexual predator, and he says he was 'playing for the camera,' and is elected.

Harvey Weinstein comes along, and everyone is wanting to hang him by his balls, liberals and conservatives alike, and while granted he was much worse, some of his actions were no different than Trump's.

In this day and age, the following is true:
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Just like Masters do to slaves.

Not really. Last time I checked, gaslighting is just as frowned upon in a bdsm relationship as it is in the vanilla world. More so, if anything.

Perhaps the public should file a class action suit against the media.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

In an era of the 24 hour news cycle, with each political philosophy having its own propaganda machine, i.e FOX News, MSNBC, and each having its own staff of spin doctors not to mention the spin doctors on every political staff, the simple fact of the matter is that these people can and will make shit look like a rose and get the people to believe it smells just as sweet.

It is therefore true that truth, in anything other than science, is nothing more than subjective.

Trump makes the claim that the Obama administration bugged Trump tower, and then uses the fact that the DoJ was investigating one of the staffers on his campaign staff to prove his point.

A video comes out during the election that portrays Trump as little better than a sexual predator, and he says he was 'playing for the camera,' and is elected.

Harvey Weinstein comes along, and everyone is wanting to hang him by his balls, liberals and conservatives alike, and while granted he was much worse, some of his actions were no different than Trump's.

In this day and age, the following is true:
“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Just like Masters do to slaves.

Not really. Last time I checked, gaslighting is just as frowned upon in a bdsm relationship as it is in the vanilla world. More so, if anything.

Perhaps the public should file a class action suit against the media.

Why? On the showing from you and your clade in here, the public enjoys being lied to by a biased media, so long as it's being run by white supremacists or Australians.