JVoV
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Joined: 3/9/2015
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
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ORIGINAL: JVoV
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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
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ORIGINAL: JVoV
I don't think there is room to compromise on this one.
What is it that a person of any faith has to lose? A few Hail Mary's? A Lord's Prayer before bed that they should've done anyway? Are those same things not required for going against other scripture by refusing service?
What do some homos have to lose if they can't get a wedding cake? Well, practically anything related to the wedding and reception, and the life they want to lead together afterwards. The jeweler for their rings, the tailors for their suits, the venue, a florist, a photographer, an organist, a caterer with plenty of staff for the reception, bartenders, the alcohol itself, the band or dj... The b&b they book for the honeymoon, the jobs they go back to on Monday with a new wedding ring on, the house they're trying to buy or have custom built...
And it all starts with a cake.
At least be real with your complaint.
What do homos have to lose if they can't get a wedding cake from Masterpiece Cakeshop? They stand to have nothing to lose, except a wedding cake made by MR. Phillips. Is his cakeshop the only bakery they can go to to get a beautiful wedding cake? I'm going to bet they can get a wedding cake, a beautifully created wedding cake in their area, outside of Masterpiece Cakeshop.
So, no. They don't have anything to lose, really.
How about trying, just for a moment, to allow someone else to decide how important their Christianity is for themselves, instead of you trying to do it for them, k?
Then please explain the religious consequences for baking a gay wedding cake. So much of what the Bible teaches is at odds with American laws and values in this age that I do understand the need for Christians to cling to as much as they have left. But I also understand that forgiveness through Christ is never out of reach.
You don't give a rat's ass about their beliefs. Your condescending attitude demonstrates that. "Forgiveness through Christ is never out of reach." You realize that to be forgiven, you have to be repentant, right? Choosing to do something wrong with the attitude that you can just ask forgiveness later isn't being repentant.
You seem to assume I have no religious beliefs of my own. Or that I don't strive to be a good Christian. That would be false.
As a Christian myself, I find the religious beliefs argument in this case difficult to swallow and morally offensive. I've already quoted scripture as to why. But here it is again:
Matthew 22
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[37] Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. [38] This is the first and great commandment. [39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [40] On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Love thy neighbor. Not love thy neighbors except Gary, cuz he's a freak. Just love thy neighbor.
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But just as we cannot allow Shari'a law to hijack our country, neither can we allow Christian beliefs to continue to deny basic civil rights to GLBTQ+ Americans.
Basic rights? Is there a "basic civil right" to have a particular cake shop decorate a wedding cake? How about not letting government encroach on someone's right to exercise his religion? Noooo, can't have that.
There are State rights, and Colorado chose to provide protections for LGBTQ+ against discrimination. I believe that law is fair and just because it is evenly applied to everyone in the State, regardless of their religious beliefs.
There are so many reasons for people of faith to disapprove even a heterosexual marriage, and they are allowed to do so. But has there ever been a reported instance of those disapprovals resulting in a denial of service? Not since Jim Crowe laws allowed blacks and interracial couples to be denied. And yes, some chose to use their religious beliefs as their reasoning at the time.
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I am being quite real in my complaint. If a single business has a valid excuse for denying service to any class of people, then every business has that same right. Christianity is the most common religion in our country, so it would not be a surprise if a solid majority of bakeries would be Christian-owned, and also choose to deny service. And it could spread to every business related to weddings, effectively becoming a great pain in the ass for gay couples to do business at all.
Do you really think there are no gay-owned bakeries? Really? And, a "solid majority" isn't "all," so there are still options, no? You want to play the "slippery slope" game? Will government have the authority to force a kosher or halal eatery to serve pork products, or non-kosher/halal foods? I got it!! How about we should be allowed to get Big Macs at Burger King (ok that's a bad example, as there is that Big King sandwich, but they chose to do it, and weren't forced to (for the save!)).
Should any church of a homosexual couple be forced to perform their wedding ceremony?
Be forced to? No.
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I have no idea how many other bakeries are reasonably near Masterpiece that bake wedding cakes, nor the quality of any of them. But anywhere in America, competition could be right across the street, or 100 miles away.
So, you don't know? Considering it's less than 10 miles from Denver, I'm going to hazard a guess there are plenty (according to theknot.com, there are 64 within 10 miles of Lakewood, CO). Masterpiece may be the very best. But, that doesn't mean they have to break their faith for a homosexual couple's custom wedding cake.
Since it's not letting me link, here's the link: https://www.theknot.com/marketplace/wedding-cake-bakeries-lakewood-co?distance=within-10-miles&offset=30
The Market will take care of these things, anyway. It likely won't be as quick as government fiat, but it would be organic and, imo, the right way to have it happen. No one is forced to purchase anything there. If you go to theknot and to the Masterpiece Cakeshop page, you'll see a couple bad reviews based on their unwillingness to make a cake for a homosexual family celebration, and they aren't the only 5-star rated bakery in the 64 within 10 miles of Lakewood, CO.
It is wonderful to have options, and I'm sure the couple managed to find a cake in time. That does not negate the fact that the bakery violated Colorado's law.
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In your opinion, homosexuals have a greater right to purchase a custom-created wedding cake from whomever they choose than a cake decorator's right to worship and exercise his religion as he sees fit. Get real.
No. In my opinion, homosexuals have been denied equal rights and opportunities for far too long, in many ways because of religious beliefs. To make certain that cannot continue, some protections must be provided for homosexuals, to defend their freedoms, especially as the country adjusts to gay marriage.
And it is especially important for government to protect minorities from being persecuted and ostracized by those claiming religious beliefs that may directly oppose that minority's right to live, much less any equality guaranteed by the Constitution.
And there is growing support of that belief. Twenty-two states plus Washington, D.C and Puerto Rico outlaw discrimination based on sexual orientation, and twenty states plus Washington, D.C. and Puerto Rico outlaw discrimination based on gender identity or expression.
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