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DaddySatyr -> Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 7:07:07 AM)


Based upon today's attack in NYC, I was going to write a little something, here, but instead, I found I could just "dip into the archives". I had already written a piece that holds up, even today.

So ...

By Michael The Libertarian


Most days, when I sit down at my desk with my 32 oz. Cup of Diet Wild Cherry Pepsi©, I have such a precise idea of a subject for my brain droppings that I can write a title/headline before I even start writing my article-in-chief. Those days are the days for which I live, especially on days like today which are the polar opposite of today.

Days like today are difficult. It's not that I don't have anything to write about. I have an idea of what I'm going to write about. I have thoughts, swirling around in my head; they just haven't congealed, entirely. Sometimes, I can write the title by the middle of the article, but I never hold out hope on days like these.

With all that's going on in the world, today … No. Let me not use a euphemistic phrase. Let me spell it out:

Because of DAESH (I call ISIS that because, apparently, it's a 'cuss word in Arabic and they don't like it), Iran, North Korea, Pakistan, Afghanistan … you get the point … also because of who is sitting in the White House, I have been having lingering thoughts about war, lately.

I believe DAESH (and their ilk) to be the sum total of our feckless “policy” of addressing Islamic terrorism for over fifty years. After each incursion of terrorism, we spoke pretty words, and ignored the problem, hoping either Israel would prevail or the problem would just go away, on its own.

Then, in the 1970s the burka wearers started upping their game and when the Ayatollah Assaholah took over Iran in 1979, we should have really sat up and taken notice. We didn't. Our country's policy after our hostages were taken from the U.S. embassy in Tehran was one of: “We apologize for being American”. By the time President Carter found his intestinal fortitude, not only did the mission fail, spectacularly, but we had already been cowed into submission.

11 Sep. 2001 didn't teach us anything, either except to prompt the government to erode our rights away (bringing us more in line with socialist Europe) with that oxymoronic “PATRIOT” Act. We didn't decide to eliminate the cause of our woes. We were told this was our new reality and we'd just have to accept it.

That was a huge s**t sandwich and I wish the sheeple in this country had enough integrity to refuse to take a bite, but swallowed what we were fed.

Look, I am far from being a “war monger”. I just think, over the decades, we've endured enough provocation to be “on the side of the angels” where accusations of hawkishness are concerned. We've tolerated enough attacks and spilling of our precious blood to make the case that not only has war been declared, but is being prosecuted by Jihad Johnnies of every ethnic stripe against us and on our own soil.

So, not only have we been attacked, we've been invaded as well. When will America wake up and realize that we are in a fight for our very way of life (and we've already lost ground)?

Any time military action is mentioned, the usual suspects jump up and use the “War is Hell” quote without realizing that quote is an anachronism, in a lot of ways. We've reduced collateral damage, tremendously. We've met flat-out destructive aggression with doe-eyed appeasement. We've preached about tolerance and “peaceful” Muslims (I've met precious few), but we've also seen “No-Go Zones” in Minnesota and consistent polls showing large majorities of American

Muslims (at least) tacitly support implementation of Sharia Law in the U.S. That's an issue for me and should be for every pluralist American.

Back when “War is Hell” was quoted, as I mentioned before, collateral damage made it hell and provided reasonable deterrent to engaging in it, willy-nilly. Jihad Johnny has already accepted his own death, by dint of his indoctrination into the extremist DAESH fold. Would he be as quick to take up arms if he thought his wife/mother/grandmother/daughter might get killed in our next retaliatory missile strike?

Many years ago (can it be twenty of them, already?), I wrote an article comparing how we wage war to a Star Trek episode. While I always reserve the right to plagiarize myself, I won't try to recreate the article here, but I will try and tie it in for you.

In the episode: “A Taste of Armageddon”, The Enterprise encounters two worlds (Vendikar and Eminiar VII) who have been at war for five hundred years. How have they managed to do this? Well, they learned long ago, that war would eventually just wipe them all out or, at the very least, it would destroy their civilization. So, they decide to use computerized simulated attacks and have anyone declared a casualty report to disintegration chambers to be killed. Does that sound like the path we're on, when we start mentioning smart bombs and “eradicating collateral damage”?

How does the Enterprise crew eventually resolve the situation? Easy, they “pull the plug” on the computers and offer the two planets the choice of real (horrific) war or the diplomatic solution of talking to each other and working out their differences.

Certainly, the tactics of the Jihadis are used to maximize collateral damage so, why are we dancing around the issue? Our enemy has declared war and defined the parameters by which it will be prosecuted. Isn't it time we started treating Islamic Extremism like the threat it truly is? Isn't it time we did something we haven't done in seventy years and fight this war with the intent of winning it?

Haven't we got Casus Belli?


- Michael




completesadist -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 10:27:54 AM)

The issue however hasn’t changed, who do you fight or declare war on?

The suspect was a US citizen, extremists tend to blend in and become sleeper cells, those who don’t re regularly being targeted and killed via drone strikes.

Now you could declare war against Islam but never in human history has a religion, belief or ideal been destroyed by force. The Romans slaughtered thousands of Christians and the Nazi exterminated millions of Jews, both religions are thriving ~ Islam is purportedly to have billions of followers, so good luck if that is your idea.

You defeat and eliminate twisted ideology through a hearts nd minds campaign, turning the supporters away from the fanatics, at the same time as using intel and spec ops to quietly take out the fanatics when and where you find them.




BoscoX -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 10:42:13 AM)


Muslims spontaneously become fanatics simply by reading the Koran because the Koran demands fanaticism of Muslims

And that’s the problem with Muslims





completesadist -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 10:49:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


Muslims spontaneously become fanatics simply by reading the Koran because the Koran demands fanaticism of Muslims

And that’s the problem with Muslims




Uh huh, insightful as always I see




kdsub -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 11:02:49 AM)

I will not embrace a particular political parties proposed solution to Muslim terrorism because both appeasement and military retaliation has not worked.

I believe we need a new approach and as a start we need to stop using these tragedies to garner political points and split our defense. Would it be great if our elected representatives would put politics aside and work together on multiple fronts to end this constant tit for tat reaction that solves nothing.

Butch




DaddySatyr -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 12:21:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: completesadist
The issue however hasn’t changed, who do you fight or declare war on?


Well, it's true that DAESH is finally "on the run" and terrorists "don't have a country". My solution wouldn't be a popular one. We have the ability to locate "training camps" that are usually either "insulated" by "innocents" (perhaps a village or some such) or hidden in a place of innocents (a school or something). I seem to remember Clinton bombing what was claimed to be "an aspirin factory"?.

Well, forget sending our troops into harm's way to make "precision strikes". Drop tons of steel on 'em. Make sure they're dead. If others are killed as a result, maybe some "others" will stop protecting the scumbags.


quote:

ORIGINAL: completesadist
The suspect was a US citizen, extremists tend to blend in and become sleeper cells, those who don’t re regularly being targeted and killed via drone strikes.


I'm not sure I can figure out your entire meaning, here. There's some awkward wording, after the second comma. Being a "glass half full" type, I'll just say: Yes! a naturalized American citizen. Let's not bring up immigration to a quasi-isolationist (me). It's too easy a pitch to knock out of the park.

quote:

ORIGINAL: completesadist
Now you could declare war against Islam but never in human history has a religion, belief or ideal been destroyed by force. The Romans slaughtered thousands of Christians and the Nazi exterminated millions of Jews, both religions are thriving ~ Islam is purportedly to have billions of followers, so good luck if that is your idea.


You could be right about your claim about "never in human history", but I think you'll find there are a few that are almost irrelevant, after horrid campaigns; Mormons, Quakers, Native Americans, Christians from East Timor, ...

I guess we just have a tough fight ahead of us, but when something is worth doing ...


quote:

ORIGINAL: completesadist
You defeat and eliminate twisted ideology through a hearts nd minds campaign, turning the supporters away from the fanatics, at the same time as using intel and spec ops to quietly take out the fanatics when and where you find them.


Nope. You do like they do (as I made the point in my OP): you find one, you kill them, even if it kills or injures "innocents" who are helping them hide. Their rules. We should just play by 'em.



Michael





BoscoX -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 12:35:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I will not embrace a particular political parties proposed solution to Muslim terrorism because both appeasement and military retaliation has not worked.

I believe we need a new approach and as a start we need to stop using these tragedies to garner political points and split our defense. Would it be great if our elected representatives would put politics aside and work together on multiple fronts to end this constant tit for tat reaction that solves nothing.

Butch


It is true that appeasement has never worked, Muslims have always moveed against perceived weakness

However, you need to learn some history because the only thing that ihas ever stopped or slowed the Muslim hordes has been superior militaristic strength and the will to use it




kdsub -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 1:21:30 PM)

You must be kidding... if military might were all that was needed surely the last two decades would have ended it. I am certainly not against military intervention but something more is needed.

Butch




Danemora -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 1:33:26 PM)

You mean like the military might the US showed taking down Hussein that let ISIS get itself a stronghold throughout the region, Bosco? Military might only serves to create the power vaccuums and shifts necessary to keep this shit show propagating across the globe like a virus. We decimate our own population sending young folks off to die to feed the war machine and make rich folks even richer with lucrative defense contracts. We havent done jack shit to stop anything....no matter how much war we throw at the problem. We've made it worse




MrRodgers -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:01:11 PM)

quote:

We've reduced collateral damage, tremendously.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora

You mean like the military might the US showed taking down Hussein that let ISIS get itself a stronghold throughout the region, Bosco? Military might only serves to create the power vaccuums and shifts necessary to keep this shit show propagating across the globe like a virus. We decimate our own population sending young folks off to die to feed the war machine and make rich folks even richer with lucrative defense contracts. We havent done jack shit to stop anything....no matter how much war we throw at the problem. We've made it worse


quote:


We've reduced collateral damage, tremendously.

[They] call it collateral murder even if it's just say mom & dad.

The US dropped a 500 lb bomb on a house in Iraq thinking it was a terrorist cell or at least a stronghold. It wasn't.

It killed no more than the entire family in it...but one teenage son.

That son was on youtube "The Americans are butchers... Americans are scum."

You think we changed any minds with that ? I do...his.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:05:04 PM)


I'm as pleased as punch that this moron, would-be mass-murderer managed to blow his nuts off, guaranteeing that at least he won't be able to spread his DNA (from this day, forward, at least).

A fitting epilogue.







BoscoX -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:08:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You must be kidding... if military might were all that was needed surely the last two decades would have ended it. I am certainly not against military intervention but something more is needed.

Butch


You are extremely short-sighted. The last two decades? Try the last century.

Battles and entire wars have been fought trying to "end it". Hundreds of millions have been slaughtered by the Muslim hordes, and today is just another day

Ask the Hindus what they had to do to stop the bloodshed at the hands of the Muslim hordes. Ask the Buddhists

And still it goes on







BoscoX -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:09:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I'm as pleased as punch that this moron, would-be mass-murderer managed to blow his nuts off, guaranteeing that at least he won't be able to spread his DNA (from this day, forward, at least).

A fitting epilogue.






It's not the DNA that's the problem, it's that blood-soaked book




MrRodgers -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:12:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I'm as pleased as punch that this moron, would-be mass-murderer managed to blow his nuts off, guaranteeing that at least he won't be able to spread his DNA (from this day, forward, at least).

A fitting epilogue.


Well the only way that what you suggest is even prosecutable, would be to side with 'Carpet Bomb Ted' and just fire up the B52's et all and have at it. That is in fact the military's only possibility if all involved...agreed with you.





MrRodgers -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:17:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I'm as pleased as punch that this moron, would-be mass-murderer managed to blow his nuts off, guaranteeing that at least he won't be able to spread his DNA (from this day, forward, at least).

A fitting epilogue.






It's not the DNA that's the problem, it's that blood-soaked book

Another accurate description of how...religion poisons everything.




BoscoX -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:21:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Another accurate description of how...religion poisons everything.


Atheists such as Stalin and Mao are responsible for almost as much wholesale slaughter as the cult we call Islam

Not every ideology is as bloodthirsty as yours, and yours is certainly no better than any other - and arguably far worse than most




DesideriScuri -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:35:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Danemora
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
You must be kidding... if military might were all that was needed surely the last two decades would have ended it. I am certainly not against military intervention but something more is needed.
Butch

You mean like the military might the US showed taking down Hussein that let ISIS get itself a stronghold throughout the region, Bosco? Military might only serves to create the power vaccuums and shifts necessary to keep this shit show propagating across the globe like a virus. We decimate our own population sending young folks off to die to feed the war machine and make rich folks even richer with lucrative defense contracts. We havent done jack shit to stop anything....no matter how much war we throw at the problem. We've made it worse


Had we not "played war" but actually been "in it to win it," things would be much different, at least as far as the US is concerned. We'd have fewer men and women in our military in active hostile settings. War might still be Hell, but it's not Hell like it was 50-60 years ago. "Civilized" militaries play by different rules than terrorists do. To an extent, I'm very much okay with that. I'd much rather not sink to their level of inhumane tactics. But, at some point in time, we might need to step off the high road and make another path between where we are and where they are.

Hamas fires rockets at Israel from a hospital. If Israel retaliates, they are firing on a fucking hospital. Obviously, they can't just lob rockets at the hospital, but I'm certain there are other options between leveling the hospital and letting Hamas continue to shell Israel unabated.

American forces were fired on from mosques in Iraq. Rather than level them immediately, non-lethal attempts were made to end those attacks (for instance, the religious leaders of the mosque and/or groundskeepers were used in an attempt to talk the terrorists out of the mosque). When those methods failed and they were still being shot at, then attempts at ending the attacks were escalated.

I don't want us to go Godzilla on terrorist held cities. I don't want us to nuke the cities. But, if all other means fail....

To be completely honest, I want the US to let it be known that they will come to the defense of Israel if it's attacked. Let Israel know, that if it initiates the hostilities, the resulting fight is on them (but we will act to end hostilities to prevent Israel's destruction if necessary). Then, gtfo of the Middle East and a shit load of other places.




Hillwilliam -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 2:47:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoscoX


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You must be kidding... if military might were all that was needed surely the last two decades would have ended it. I am certainly not against military intervention but something more is needed.

Butch


You are extremely short-sighted. The last two decades? Try the last century.

Battles and entire wars have been fought trying to "end it". Hundreds of millions have been slaughtered by the Muslim hordes, and today is just another day






So stop loving on the Saudis who STARTED the whole fucking thing.




PeonForHer -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 3:59:06 PM)

FR

A thread on the latest (likely-) Islamist terrorist attack, but one whose OP *doesn't even mention* the possible relationship between the attack in question and Trump's declaration, just days ago, on Jerusalem. OK, I get it - many will drip utter scorn on the effect of Trump's declaration, and will point to the supposed evidence that Muslims just want to kill westerners, and Americans in particular, and that is that. But not even to *mention* it?

Oh well, fuck it. Let's have a show of hands: Who wants to join up with the military and go off to fight in another war? Or send his/her sons and daughters off to fight in another war? (Because, let's face it, armies aren't usually made up of portly old blobs who will only walk 100 yards before demanding to get into a car.) No real commitment, after all - there are only 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. It'll all be over by Christmas. Piece of cake. Front and centre, all you rightie Yanks, who are so keen to save Freedom (TM) for the rest of us snowflakes (TM)! [:)]




BamaD -> RE: Another New York (Probably Muslim Extremist) Attack (12/11/2017 4:26:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

A thread on the latest (likely-) Islamist terrorist attack, but one whose OP *doesn't even mention* the possible relationship between the attack in question and Trump's declaration, just days ago, on Jerusalem. OK, I get it - many will drip utter scorn on the effect of Trump's declaration, and will point to the supposed evidence that Muslims just want to kill westerners, and Americans in particular, and that is that. But not even to *mention* it?

Oh well, fuck it. Let's have a show of hands: Who wants to join up with the military and go off to fight in another war? Or send his/her sons and daughters off to fight in another war? (Because, let's face it, armies aren't usually made up of portly old blobs who will only walk 100 yards before demanding to get into a car.) No real commitment, after all - there are only 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. It'll all be over by Christmas. Piece of cake. Front and centre, all you rightie Yanks, who are so keen to save Freedom (TM) for the rest of us snowflakes (TM)! [:)]

I joined up during Viet Nam .




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