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RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 7:48:22 PM

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Reposted:

I am not sure why so many people think you can't be witty and amusing and have fun and show personality unless you're being a brat. The most common thing I hear from brats suggests that they feel that if they aren't bratty, then they will be repressed, bland, and boring. So perhaps they are acting out as a way to fight against being ordinary.

There may also be a taste of the "force me" in brats. They are oh so proud and oh so strong until the ONE comes to them and somehow transforms them into a meek and obedient girl- it is only HIS true power and honor which can tame the wild beast. It's a form of "do me" and definitely another type that can't reconcile being submissive AND being a full person.

Why adults think it's ok to act like a brat in public I have no idea. Just because it's kinky doesn't mean it's ok to be rude.

For me, being a brat isn't a positive thing at all, and I don't associate with brats.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_480396/mpage_4/key_brat/tm.htm#485762
What's your definition of "bratty submissive"?

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=316437&mpage=1&key=brat&#316452
Not a slave...a bratty subbie

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=256345&mpage=1&key=brat&#256683
The "B" word

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Morpheus07)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 7:48:55 PM

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quote:

In my mind's eye, I have been more agreeable to the spunky or playfulness of a submissive/slave in my earlier days of M/s but, as I have aged/matured my personal tastes prefers the gentle humor, wit and respectful interactions between the submissive/slave/servant and I.

Dear LadyHugs,

I find myself maturing in much the same manner, thank you for your insight.

_____________________________

Its a case of mind over matter, "I don't mind, because you don't matter!"

(in reply to LadyHugs)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 8:11:31 PM

hizgeorgiapeach

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I'm frequently refered to as a "brat" by those who can't seem to comprehend that Masocist and Submissive are two completely different critters. I am one, I'm not the other, and quite bluntly don't feel that the standards of "brat" should be applied to those of us who admit up front that we're Maso but not sub. I'm their peer - and once they get it through their heads that I am a peer rather than a potential servant, most of them tend to change their mind about whether they consider me a brat.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to Morpheus07)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 8:12:18 PM

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"Submissive brat" is an oxymoron. I don't think it is reasonable to act disrespectful to one's dominant and call it submission.
To act in a fashion that dares the dominant to make one submit, rather than fulfill the obligations of submission negates what D/s is all about.
I can tell a funny story very well, I frequently make Master laugh. But I do it within the bounds of our relationship.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to Morpheus07)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 8:14:08 PM

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I gotta admit... I can be a "cocky" *^&. That may be because this is all still new to me, so I still have conflicting issues with completely serving. ((Also, things are being taken slow with me)) I believe that some Doms like the challenge. Being with a completely compliant person may not be that intriguing to some, I believe some, not all, like the idea of taming.

Now, I believe there is a such thing as overdoing it, and that's why I think bratty can be very unattractive to others.
<~~>

(in reply to Morpheus07)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 8:53:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Morpheus07

Why is it that so many submissives/slaves seem to take pride and brag about being "bratty"? Does this word have a different meaning in BDSM, D/s, & M/s than in every other circumstance?

Both Dom & sub encouraged to give their 2 cents.

My definition within BDSM realm for the word brat is simply someone who uses manipulative behavior to get the desired attention from their Top/Dom/Master.

Now let me explain and clarify before everyone gets on my case about this..

I think many people use the term brat when what they really mean is personality. Someone who is being a brat is looking for attention that they feel they cannot get by behaving in the submissive fashion they claim to espouse. This is manipulative when if told to stop by their T/D/M.. they continue to escalate until they get what they wanted in the first place..most often punishment but not always.

Someone who has personality WILL stop when told and resume to their acceptable behaviors without challenging the T/D/M on his decree.

I do not find "brats" as noted in the top definition to be acceptable. (Thats the switch/Domme in me I guess). The ones who "claim" to be brats but actually fall in the second catagory are just fine..it is simply a term they use.

The one question that I always ask is "Who are you serving by your behavior?".. that tells the whole story right there..

My opinion.. YMMV

_____________________________

This is who I am
And this is all I know.
That I must choose to live for all that I can give
The spark that makes the Power grow
<Immortality by Celine Dion>

(in reply to Morpheus07)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 9:06:14 PM

Fawne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

They confuse strength with a lack of the ability to excercise emotional self-control.

Behaving like an ass doesn't make you superior.

Interesting perspective. I myself have behaved like a silly ass sometimes in one relationship. Funny, it was just this one relationship, never did that before.

It wasn't about trying to feel superior or even be strong. It was that I was overwhelmed, confused and hurt - defensive. No, not a victim. Self control is def nessesary.

Never again will I allow myself to be so out of sorts that I can't think or speak clearly. Balance in a slave a must in order to show the proper respect. Balance is strength. Brattiness is not.

I would hope that a Dominant would hold some compassion if a slave had serious RL responsibilities to attend to also. The Dominant could, IMHO, consider if they themselves had been under a lot of unrelated stress and the timing of training a new slave was off. Especially if the Master and slave had vast differences in experience.

With grace, fawne

(in reply to Homestead)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 9:19:43 PM

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All you need do is be honest, and a decent Top will make adjustments Fawne. The best Doms seem to have a great deal of compassion and patience. They simply mask it at times, so it cannot be played upon innapropriately by thier charges.

As far as my comments on brats confusing being strong with bad behavior......it's a silly rationalization that they get on websites, and in chatrooms. They see it getting attention-failing to realize that it gets them ignored by the quality Dominants who know the score.

It seems to work, but really-it doesn't

You have to draw a maintanence limit somewhere.

(in reply to Fawne)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/1/2006 11:56:48 PM

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okay here is a comment from someone who is a playful brat. i'm sorry You think You can talk about us subs that way. i am a brat, a fun brat.....i always show respect but i am not going to cower down to a Dom who thinks just because i have the nick brat that He can talk about me or order me around. Come on......You are Doms here, yet You label all when it is a chosen few.
Now You will say i am a brat for commenting, well then so be it, but You wont see anyone who has more respect if earned than this brat.
kimbrat

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/2/2006 12:11:33 AM

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Having a bratty submissive is fun. It is very good and fun role play if you tend to lean toward role playing. As long as you agree upon it ahead of time and your brat dont go overboard with it and try to embarass you in front of other people.

(in reply to kimbrat)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/2/2006 3:37:42 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Morpheus07
Why is it that so many submissives/slaves seem to take pride and brag about being "bratty"? Does this word have a different meaning in BDSM, D/s, & M/s than in every other circumstance?

Ok goting to rattle a few cages here no doubt but it is the way I see a lot of it. There are a LOT of 'bottoms' out there, they do submit but only on their terms. All well and good when they are dealing with a Top who will put up with it. A lot of the rest of the time they act basicaly vanilla which includes being snappy, being manipulative and sometimes even downright verbaly abusive. Of course it is always because they have PMT, or are stressed, or the dog next door has been barking and gave them a headache, or.... any one of a million and one excusses for their unacceptable behaviour.

That behaviour is what spring to mind when someone uses the term 'brat' to me. I have no time nor tolerance for brats. Their excusses don't wash, they may have reasons, contributing factiors, to why they are pissed off, but those reasons don't constitute an excuse to indulge in taking it out on Me! The real reason it is done... because they can get away with it, because no-one is MAKING them have self-discipline NOT TO by holding them accountable for their actions and they are not strong enough people to hold themself to account.

It is fobbed off as just something that has to be accepted about them. Even, and this is where the lable change comes in, presented as a 'sign of strength of personality'... Sorry but that doesn't wash either, strength of personality DOESN'T equaite to not having the self discipline to control your unpleasent displays of petulance! I don't care how many people try to convince me otherwise "brat" is an UNPLEASENT term.

The other side of the coin, which even effects submissives and slaves, along with the multitude of 'bottoms' is that they often buy into the re-definition of the word "brat"... but are meaning something quite diffrent by it.

My girl, is a cheeky, happy, friendly, playful, sassy girl. We have a lot of fun together. I get refered to as an "Evil evil old dinosaur", I occassionaly get poked in the ribs when I'm teasing her, She'll 'try' running away like penelope pitstop fleeing from the wicked hooded claw..... but only in appropriate circumstances and in an appropriate attitude. It is amusing, part of her sense of humour, something that makes our time together fun.

But she has the self control to know when it isn't approprate. To know when to bite back the smart-ass comments and obey. She knows the diffrence between respectfuly disagreeing and arguing, she has the strength of character to stick to the right side of that line of acceptable conduct. She has submitted, she is focused on pleasing Me and whatever 'reason' she may have for unpleasent behaviour she doesn't try to use that as an excuse to indulge in bad behaviour. Not only would I not accept it or let her get away with it, but also because whilst she is a strong, sassy girl, the one thing she is NOT is a brat!

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to Morpheus07)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/2/2006 5:57:13 AM

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i wish there were different words to describe the playful, spunky type and the attention seeking manipulative type of brats...........the first is totally acceptable and adds another dimension to a relationship, the second becomes tiresome and annoying in a very short time.
i truly feel my first poly attempts demise was due largely in part to the fact that my sister sub was of the second type, and became more than Master could/would deal with on a continual basis.
tho it is much like everything else in this world.......if that is what/who you are, there is sure to be someone who is seeking that, and would like nothing better.

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/2/2006 6:02:06 AM

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I tease Master but Master know i am not being disespetful or a brat he knows it is a part of myn personallity. He does however let me know if he is not in the mood for bring teased so those times i resist my inclatation to tease him. I am not being bratty just fun.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/2/2006 6:06:22 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleone35
I tease Master but Master know i am not being disespetful or a brat he knows it is a part of myn personallity. He does however let me know if he is not in the mood for bring teased so those times i resist my inclatation to tease him. I am not being bratty just fun.

Yep, I see nothing bratty there sweetie, much like my own girl. Part of your personality, part of being fun, but awareness and self control of when it is appropriate and when it isn't.

Sassy is good, I like sassy

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to littleone35)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/2/2006 6:58:38 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse
The other side of the coin, which even effects submissives and slaves, along with the multitude of 'bottoms' is that they often buy into the re-definition of the word "brat"... but are meaning something quite diffrent by it.

cheeky, happy, friendly, playful, sassy girl... It is amusing, part of her sense of humour,
But she has the self control to know when it isn't approprate.

What you've said here pretty well hit the nail on the head about part of why we get labeled brats at times, Raven. We are armed with a sense of humor and we aren't afraid to use it!

I'm more than a bit sassy, and I have a particularly quirky sense of humor. I'm also very up front with people though and tell them not to expect me to "obey" in any sense of the word outside of a negotiated scene. It's simply not part of who I am or what I want out of life. I've run into an awful lot of people, both online and off, who adamantly refuse to consider that there's a difference between a strict maso/bottom - and a submissive. If you're one you "Must" be the other according to them. And it's that unfortunately deluded, narrow minded type which looks at me (and those like me - bottoms who are not submissive), sneers, and mutters "brat." I treat them as what they ARE - my peer - rather than cowering and treating them as something they are NOT - my owner/ leash holder/ authority figure in my personal life. And it pisses them off.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Essential Scentsations

(in reply to RavenMuse)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/2/2006 7:11:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tangria

i wish there were different words to describe the playful, spunky type and the attention seeking manipulative type of brats...........the first is totally acceptable and adds another dimension to a relationship, the second becomes tiresome and annoying in a very short time.

There is a term for it.. its called "personality" LOL

I always warn my potential owners that I have tons of it.. and it is not a negotiable thing or something I will accept being "trained" away from.. However, I always find myself explaining to them the difference between personality and brattiness.. What it comes down to.. if he says stop.. it stops..I am there to serve him.. not myself.. I have never been accused of disobedience in this area..

_____________________________

This is who I am
And this is all I know.
That I must choose to live for all that I can give
The spark that makes the Power grow
<Immortality by Celine Dion>

(in reply to tangria)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/3/2006 9:17:42 AM

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i think being a "brat" or not is part perosnality, part role play, and part manipulation. Much of this behavior is dependant on the doms reaction to it. Some doms actaully like brats and see it as a playful exchange, that's their fun, that's their particular dance.... good for them, enjoy!

Some subs use being a brat to manipulate a dom. They act up to get attention or maybe the "punishment/pain" they want. It's a rather imature way to go about things, but if the dom tolerates it???? They need to feel comfortable simply asking for what they want, instead of playing a game to get it. Maybe its the game that they like, or the fact that they can manipulate - poor dom lol.

Others are just plain old brats who have no idea what it is to be submissive. Maybe they understand but they just cannot change this aspect of their behavior/personality??

my ex would not tolerate "bratty" behavior one bit. i never had any inclinations to be "bratty", thats not to say i never talked back or made a snide or sarcastic comment, i did, but i always knew afterwards i was wrong and apologized for my behavior, i felt bad about my lack of "control".

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RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/3/2006 9:28:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tangria

i wish there were different words to describe the playful, spunky type and the attention seeking manipulative type of brats

I think the playful spunky types learn to call themselves brats because
a) it gets them positive attention from doms who want brats
b) they get told they are brats by the same doms who say "You need a spanking" when you won't give them your picture online, and believe them

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to tangria)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/3/2006 10:13:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

b) they get told they are brats by the same doms who say "You need a spanking" when you won't give them your picture online, and believe them

Alright LA.. you deserve Mr Dancing Banana for that one

_____________________________

This is who I am
And this is all I know.
That I must choose to live for all that I can give
The spark that makes the Power grow
<Immortality by Celine Dion>

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: "bratty" submissives - 8/3/2006 10:46:53 AM

MistressSassy66

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Joined: 11/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Morpheus07

Here is a question that I have been curious about ever since I joined Collarme.

Why is it that so many submissives/slaves seem to take pride and brag about being "bratty"? Does this word have a different meaning in BDSM, D/s, & M/s than in every other circumstance?

I know that when I raised my son, if someone came to me and said, "Wow you should be so proud, your son is such a little brat!" I would have been more than a little confused.

Both Dom & sub encouraged to give their 2 cents.

Personally...I can not tolerate a brat.There are times when some get a little bratty,
thats okay.But a submissive who is constantly a brat is more work than I care for.
I want someone who can carry out a task without having to be watched over.
Even with bondage if they try to hold their hand away...that just pisses Me off.
It guarantees a good hard whack with a stern "stand the fuck still and give Me that hand now! "

I'm not saying all bratty submissives do this...but most make Me feel like its just some big game...

aaarrrggghhhh

_____________________________

Mistress Sassy

http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

(in reply to Morpheus07)

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