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RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy?


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RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/26/2006 7:16:55 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

I am a naturalist who does in point of fact understand and practice fully as much of the Gorean Philosophical view of naturalism as I can do within the external society.  Most here cannot say as much, or at least be truthful when they say it.  I can, and I do,


Greetings Master Omega..

Not stating that you do not..however, other than just your words that you do..you offer no real proof to anyone here that you practice Naturalism anymore than anyone else. Again..this falls back onto..it isn't just the words and beliefs or the narrowness of beliefs or exclusion of other beliefs that makes a person..it's the Doing of.

How do you know what others do here in a day to day life simply because they don't feel the need to say they are a Naturalist versus being a Humanist?

So a girl asks here..Just exactly what is it that you do as a Naturlist Master other than just say you are more of one than anyone else here?


Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to RedDragonFreehol)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/26/2006 3:07:24 PM   
Passion357


Posts: 481
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings, angel,

I said before, now I am asking, PLEASE Get Over It.

quote:


Tell me passion, why would you think you have more of a basis for understanding Gor in terms of living Gor, as someone who 1) has read ALL the books at least twice, 2) LIVES as a Gorean Master, and 3) identifies as such; all you have is your slavery to a Man who admittedly does not fully live within the Gorean philosophies, nor does he identify as a Gorean, and you don't want to read the books?


When did I ever say I know more about Gor than anyone here? I did not. The only thing remotely close was my statement about The Ten Commandments. I did not, nor do I now, claim to KNOW anything about Gor, save what books I did read, and what Gorean training I have had. And, of course, what I have learned from the r/t Goreans I know.

Stop making this about what I do or do not KNOW about GOR. That is not what I was talking about.

Get over the poking and proding at me, personally. I may choose to read the books at some time. Hell why not? Since it's SO important to read all the books before one chooses to speak of Gor (whether they have other such knowledge or not, according to YOU)...sheesh...I think it's wild to read 26 books, then be able to claim a Lifestyle that cannot be lived fully any damn way. I'd say it should be LIVED before it's claimed. I told Master that a year or so ago. It was just impossible for me to fully understand that once you read these books- you can be Gorean if you fully understand the philosophy. I just couldn't wrap my brain around it. Well I came here and a few other places, and aquired some r/t Gorean Friends as well. I have learned a lot about this life based on books. I do thank those of you, who have contributed, for some knowledge that I have aquired here. It is an Honor to me to have all these books (some double or triple copies) at my finger tips. It really is and I feel I should say that.
I wouldn't claim Gor anyway. Master took his own label off, as well. Besides all this, the books are too wordy, long, and drawn out. I just really didn't enjoy them enough to continue reading.
Truth be told- I have read more of them then some people on this very forum. Anyway- stop making this about you and me.

                                                             Well Wishes,
                                                                ~mate'~
P.S. Please stop calling me "passion".
That is something people who do not
know my proper slave name call me.
Or people who see my name here and
call what they see. You know my
proper slave name. Use it.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/26/2006 3:09:39 PM   
Passion357


Posts: 481
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings, raiken, 

Thank you. I am thankful to Master for allowing me to keep such as I enjoy it very VERY much as well LOL

                                                             Well Wishes,
                                                                ~mate'~

(in reply to raiken)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/26/2006 6:08:41 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Mate, i was simply using the name of which is on your profile, if you don't like it i apologize and never saw you say you perfer one over the other and i used the one i started with and simply became a habit. 

Second, i am not prodding you, i am simply stating you want to exercise your right to state things like you do about how dangerous some people's statements can be for newbies or jump in with your two cents to when others are jumping on people, , i have my right to question YOUR knowledge of what you speak of in terms of what is Gorean.  When you state someone would be dangerous to newbies, that to me tells me you choose to identify what is or is not Gorean.  So no i won't just get over it when you make statements like you did in this thread.  You will never convince me choosing NOT to read the books but trying to discuss a life where they are integrated into on some level is okay.

I have not stated once you read the books you can BE Gorean, No one ever has if i recall correctly, i simply stated that if you are going to comment on people who DO live and are Gorean in their lives, it would be intelligent to AT LEAST know what you speak of, based on the same source material as they have read.

Like i said, becareful of the glasshouse you live in..  Perhaps one day you will choose to read the books, instead of choosing NOT too.  The issue is, people who choose to identify with and understand Gor, choose wisely to read all of the source material, to not too and claim one way or the other knowledge of such, to me is like saying you know what its like to say know what its like to live under the influence and philosophies of the bible becaue you read a 1/4 of the book and you went to church for a month.  But hey, you don't have to read the rest to fully get it.  My question would be, why do you choose to remain ignorant of the rest so you could fully understand where people are coming from, when you choose to discuss it?

Most of the time i don't say anything to you, so your implication i follow you around prodding you is false and the posts will prove that.  I have only stated it recently since our initial conversations when you stated clearly you are dominant to all Free and slave and you won't read the books thread, 1) when you addressed ME personally in a thread, and 2) here in this thread when you stated words to the effect that someone who has read the books, lives Gor, and identifies as Gor would be dangerous for newbies, when you yourself choose not to read the source material, do not live under the full influence of Gorean, and your Master does not identify as Gorean.  I would think its more important for you then to read the books so you at least have the source material for reference instead of just winging it. This has never been about you and i, sorry if you think it is.  Its about Gor and learning and understanding Gor.  not some haphazard idea of life, its a very specific forum, and when someone states things like you have about being dangerous, i simply pointed out IN GENERAL mind you, that i believe people who don't choose to read the books and yet come into a specific forum like this one to discuss what is and is not living such, is dangerous.

You may not understand why its important to read the books, mate, but perhaps its because you haven't read all of them, and choose not too, you will never know and never really be qualified to say either way, until you have.  No one could. like you never understood why people have to read the books, i never understood why people would willingly choose to remain ignorant on something they choose to discuss.  Shrugs, we both don't understand things i guess.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 8/26/2006 6:20:32 PM >

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson


(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/27/2006 3:43:42 PM   
Passion357


Posts: 481
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings, angel,

quote:


so your implication i follow you around prodding you is false and the posts will prove that.


I never said that.
You add more to posts than is there. Why is that? I said stop proding me, implying that you were proding me. I never said stop following me around, implying that you follow me around. I am pretty sure you don't.
Thank for using my slave name. No I never said I prefer one over the other. I just sort of figured people would catch on once we had been talking long enough and see my signature at the bottom of my posts.
As I said. I spoke of one man. I believe he is dangerous to newbies because 1) the way he words things. Makes this long phenominal speech, seems to me to make him sound more intelligent than he is and to intimidate others, when he could just say what he means more simply. (Mind you he also says he doesn't have much time. Yeah OK.) 2) I know more of him than what is here on CM. That is all I will say on that.
Whether someone is or is not Gorean is not for me to decide unless I know them personally long enough to come to a logical conclusion. Unless they show a total lack of; Respect, Honor, Intelligence, Trust, Loyalty, the will to learn from others maybe...Any idiot can usually spot a Gorean if they have been around them long enough. Just as any idiot can usually spot a dope head if they have been aroudn them long enough. (I said usually-there are exceptions)
ANYONE that seems to me to be trying to intimidate by way of larger words, overwhelmingly long posts, and such, is hiding SOMETHING even if it's small. That shows untrustworthy-ness.

OK I am pretty well done with this conversation for now. We have beat it enough, I think. I also think I need more coffee. If you, angel, respond to me I'll probably reply, just to let you know I am not saying I am or plan to ignore you. If you have nothing else to say that is fine too.
                                                            Well Wishes,
                                                                 mate'

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/27/2006 4:33:41 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		greetings,

in all honesty mate, i dont think a newbie would be able to be his slave.
it would take a girl that knows exactly what being held in Gorean slavery is all about to be successful.i couldnt do it at this point in time in my training and i've been around a lil bit.

He also has a long breaking in and training period so a girl knows exactly what she is getting into when she begs a collar from Him.No danger there, imo.

as to His long wordy posts, hell i would think He would scare a novice off with them and no doubt He can tell you where in the book the thinking comes from.i have read with my own eyes His doing this on many occasions.

i find those that say they are Gorean but havent a clue far more dangerous to a newbie(this comes from painful experience and hindsight being what it is while i was a new girl).

edited to add *( i know more than here too,*i'm in those same places you or your Master are and i  have had people r/t in Denver that know *and
used the pronoun instead of  given name out of respect for it has been said in these very forums any slave using a Masters name while making a judgement against the Free is plain tacky/wrong)

i'm sorry i couldnt hold my 02 any longer....i truly did try for days to stay out of it

wishing you well

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 8/27/2006 5:01:29 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/28/2006 4:32:25 AM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Passion357

ANYONE that seems to me to be trying to intimidate by way of larger words, overwhelmingly long posts, and such, is hiding SOMETHING even if it's small. That shows untrustworthy-ness. 


I believe the attitude that reading the books is in no way a requirement to garner an understanding of Gorean philosophy and that anyone with a modicum of intelligence or a base understanding of the English language is somehow dangerous and untrustworthy is far more dangerous to a newbie than any other position taken here thusfar.  Ignorance is not bliss. 

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/28/2006 9:43:41 PM   
Passion357


Posts: 481
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings, krys,

quote:


believe the attitude that reading the books is in no way a requirement to garner an understanding of Gorean philosophyis far more dangerous to a newbie than any other position taken here thusfar.

(I put the sentence together, so, no, not an exact quote)

I did not, nor did my Master, say that reading the books is not required in order to get a better understanding of Gor. We both simply said he did not require me to read them.

quote:


anyone with a modicum of intelligence or a base understanding of the English language is somehow dangerous and untrustworthy is far more dangerous to a newbie than any other position taken here thusfar.


I did not say that either. I said "ANYONE that seems to me to be trying to intimidate by way of larger words, overwhelmingly long posts, and such, is hiding SOMETHING even if it's small. That shows untrustworthy-ness."
Hiding something is what is untrustworthy.

I have always been suspicious of anyone who speaks (types) very long winded, says (types) big words (example: choice vs perogative) constantly, pushing their way as the only way, instead of just saying (typing) their opinion straight and to the point. Especially when they say they have little time to do this. Always. No names need be mentioned. Anyone that does this ..It just seems suspicious to me.
WHY can't this person just speak plainly?
WHAT is it that keeps them so focused on pushing their was as the One True Way?
WHEN did they stop speaking in a way that they know everyone can understand, and start speaking in a way that can obviously be confusing?
                                                             Well Wishes,
                                                                ~mate'~

(in reply to krys)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/28/2006 9:50:03 PM   
Passion357


Posts: 481
Joined: 8/7/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings, 

I am done with beating this topic to death. I have stated my case, and re posted words in a way I think it is now clear what I was saying.
I have my opinions, you all have yours. I am going to back off this topic as well as Omega.
Y'all go ahead and have the last word. :-) I'd rather shut up now then keep an on going argument with my fellow slaves.

Just understand- I am not saying, nor have I said, that I know the one true Gorean way. I am not arguing that point. I know the one true DSF way. That I will argue until death. Other than that, I have stated my agreement or disagreement with the People here of the Gorean way.
I enjoy talking with most of you and I do not plan to turn and leave. I will continue my journey of growth and knowledge. Or growth of knowledge

                                                          Well Wishes,
                                                       ~Mate' Kajira~

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/29/2006 2:58:34 AM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		This is the Gorean Lifestyles Board, mate, so no one will be arguing your knowledge of your owner with you.  But as this is not the DSF Lifestyles Board, knowing your owner really well isn't really going to expand your understanding of the subject at hand - Gorean philisophy.  Only reading the books would do that.  You may not be required to read the books, and that is fine.  But an intimate understanding of how your Master chooses to run his home or live his life doesn't really lend to any insight into the Gorean lifestyle or philosophy - or whether or not someone's understanding of the Gorean philisophy is or is not dangerous to newbies. 

If people with a broad vocabulary intimidate you, that is a personal prejudice.  That doesn't mean they are hiding anything at all.  What is a "big" word to you may just be every day language for others.  But your personal prejudice will not change how others choose to express themselves.  All finger pointing and accusation based on your own personal prejudice will do, in the end, is reflect badly upon you.  Why do some people speak this way?  Well my owner, who doesn't post here often, tends to use "big" words because he has a 170 IQ, not because he is hiding something.  I tend to use them because I am a voracious reader and work in the legal field.  So perhaps the "whys" of it all are far more simple and less sinister than you are suggesting. 

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/29/2006 9:44:02 AM   
RedDragonFreehol


Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline 		Tal passion,

Let's look at the absolute lack of logic in what you state.  You obviously have problems with lengthy arguments that actually disprove your simple minded approach to things, and you have problems with people, especially those better educated than you, who make those arguments.  You prefer to hold your head firmly in the sand, and view others who have disputed and disproved your points as "intimidating".  If you are overwhelmed by bredth of knowledge, then perhaps, and this is just a suggestion, you might try to acquire some knowledge in your own right.

Be well,


_____________________________

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

www.coloradogoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coloradogoreans

www.fraternalorderofgoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fraternalorde

(in reply to Passion357)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/30/2006 3:09:13 AM   
LadySaphire


Posts: 29
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		Tal Group,

I have been reading all of your thoughts on this subject of whether or not Christianity belongs on Gor or in the discusion of Gor. Christianity is it's own philosophical view point on deity's and worship of deity's. Can you really cross two different philosophy's and hold true to either one. You must chose one to follow, although you may have different beliefs on how to interpret it. I do not know of any one of us that can actually get into John Normans brain one way or the other. It sounds like to me that some of you are saying the Gorean belief is Christianity, so do I have to be Christian to be Gorean? There are many belief structures that have a naturalist view point or one that was at one time until society and civilization corupted it. So, at this point I would say to discuss a philosophy it should come from that philosophy's source of relevancy. In such Christianity from the Bible, Gor from Gor books, Indian beliefs from the cheifs and shaman of tribes, budists from the temple, ect. To mix is to confuse two different sources or belief structures. I know we will all adjust  for Earth ( because this is not Gor and we have sociaty to deal with). We may even have different beliefs as, many of those on Gor did. To try to enter those beliefs as facts in a discusion not related to such facts is in a way saying that you know for sure that John Norman based the books on your belief. The only way to discuss Gorean philosophy is out of what John Norman wrote. Just like when you discuss christianity it comes from the bible. You are entitled to the belief you want to follow. But, then are you Christian with a Gorean twist or Gorean with a Christian twist? Just like in the Bible all will have different interpretations of the Gor books. We all are also entitled to adjust those beliefs to a life that we understand. But, be true to your heart and follow one adapting it only as needed under the circumstances of which you must live in. Anyone can say they are Gorean or Chriistian or a naturalist, but until they follow the book or bible from which the philosophy comes they are not what they say they are. Am I Gorean just because I read the books?  Or am I not Christian because I do not attend church every sunday?  I am not catholic because I was not born that way?  What are we talking about here? No one person can judge any one else. Only you will know if you are true to your philosophical beliefs. I think all that is really being asked is that if you want to talk Gorean then stick within the Gorean sources, The Books and I agree totally. Do not force your other beliefs upon me or anyone else. I must practice what I preach! A famous saying that means if I say I am Gorean, Then I must practice being Gorean. Not say I am Gorean and then practist being Budist. ( Drawing her sword and shield, getting ready for the on slaught of nasty replys this will get).

Lady Saphire
Free Companion
slave on my Companions couch

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/30/2006 5:29:15 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

As with any belief system one subscribes to..how you live it is up to you. Only you can know if your actions on a daily bases are true to those beliefs you hold, and should not matter beyond that point.

When you cross the line in any belief system and tell others they are wrong because they do not share the same views of the beliefs or the correct actions to follow based on such is going beyond what the majority of persons consider acceptable especially when your dealing with unproven issues such as beliefs.

That sort of thing is just as annoying as the bible thumpers who knock on your door. Nothing wrong with them attempting to share their views and beliefs with you but when you say no thankyou or I don't believe that..then they should say okay, and walk on..not continue to keep knocking on your door after it's been slammed, and tell you your an idiot or wrong or any such ilk.

Persons do live by a great deal of philosophys and belief structures at one time inwhich they feel covers and represents as much of who they are and what they believe. If your going to try and put Christianity in the mix with Gorean philosophy..then am going to interpret that as your viewing Gorean philosophy as a Religion. Many that have read from here, and elsewhere over the past 9yrs who call themselves Goreans do not deem Gorean philosophy as a Religion..infact never have heard any say such not that there aren't any who do. 

It however, unlike the bible does not have basic outlined and widely agreed upon principles, structure, and daily actions inwhich most tend to try and govern themselves. It has been seen here repeatedly. No one can agree on what the important baseline principles are of being Gorean. It has been attempted before with persons trying to give the so-called 10 commandments of Gor.  Interestingly enough has ran across a good many persons that connected to the Gor books because of their same type of connection to the bible in regards to similaritys of how one should govern themselves in daily actions based on beliefs.

Just a whole could be said on this topic alone as it is never ending and always changing by the persons involved. Thats fascintating.

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to LadySaphire)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/30/2006 5:47:51 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings Lady Saphire,

a girl believes your reasoning to be quite sound and it is a pleasure to read your words.
she looks foward to seeing you about the forum more often,
sword and all*grins*

wishing you well

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to LadySaphire)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/30/2006 7:27:42 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		greetings starshine,

this one has for the most part stayed out of religious or political viewpoints,for one simple reason and that is
because no matter how this one may feel now will not matter when she is owned.

she will vote and/or follow whatever her Master should deem fit.

the best she can do is work to understand Gor as it is written and not worry about the rest beyond living up to her own expectations and ethics of her self and life while she is free.

wishing you well

just a girls 02

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/30/2006 11:01:22 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings fyreredsub..~smiles~


What you feel now may very well change once you are owned. Would think  though that what you think and believe, read, and learn will have a good place in the actual search of the Master you kneel before. Your information put here now on how you see things, and feel regarding certain issues is of importance to you. It has meaning, and that makes it well worth others being able to read it..as it just may contain understanding of something to someone else.

Namely this girl because she is a people whore. :)

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 8/30/2006 11:10:44 AM >

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/30/2006 11:52:03 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		chuckles.

girl loves your reasoning behind the thought.

this one has conservative political leanings.

she does not 'worship' to any  degree but
her spititual beliefs walk with her paternal celtic roots.

she believes in what she can do to make life what it is.



_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/30/2006 2:02:22 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		greetings starshine,

girl has been thinking on this all day and since reading chapter 4 of Tarnsman and rereading the passage she had written of from Witness and she honestly believes that there is a collision of Norman's Gorean philosophy and religion today just based on this understanding of what is written in the books.There is no doubt in her mind as she reads further she will find more reasoning behind her thinking as she does.

personally this one has no use for orginized religion and chooses to not go into the reasons why at this point in time as it is irrelevant to the question of can one be following a religion today and living the lifestyle as true as possible based on the books.

the two do not mix but that is this ones 02

wishing you well

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 8/30/2006 2:03:39 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/30/2006 10:41:08 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings fyreredsub..~smiles~


Does not believe in organized religion either. Hasn't since mid-teens when was being forced to attend church. Finally just said nope not going anymore.  Over time has done alot of reading..talking..and self internalizing just what it all means in a personal sense. It boiled down to a simple belief that something did exist greater than ourselves, and the only requirements were to be as good of a person to yourself and others as you could possibly be.

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Philosophies: Collision or Synergy? - 8/31/2006 10:17:03 AM   
RedDragonFreehol


Posts: 569
Joined: 1/12/2005
From: Denver, Colorado
Status: offline 		Tal fyre,

There are a lot of collisions between conservative religion, and its politics, and many areas that impact freedom today.  People, in uncertain times, tend to fall back on their mythologies, and there has been a rebirth of religious fanatacism associated with every time of tumult in the past century.  This era, with its uncertain energy future, and the several middle east based conflicts, and especially a major attack on US soil, has led to a lot of people returning to the false comfort of religion, and that is even more so since the "enemy" are religious zelots dimetrically opposed to mainstream Judaism and Christianity which are the major faiths of America.  We have to counter their zelots with our zelots, don't you know.

It mostly has to do with the average human being not being all that aware, or even attempting to gain awareness.  They require the comforting idea that they will endure, and that this is not all that there is.  Unnecessary drivel, in my opinion, but each to their own.

Be well,


_____________________________

Omega
Master of Red Dragon Freehold
Chairman of the High Council
Colorado Gorean Society

www.coloradogoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coloradogoreans

www.fraternalorderofgoreans.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fraternalorde

(in reply to fyreredsub)
Profile   Post #: 80
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