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The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 7:32:06 AM

Posts: 29
Joined: 5/15/2004
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This post could be divided into 2 different threads, but I'm going to state them both here and see what happens. Might be a little lengthy, so bear with me.

When I own a car, I take good care of that car. I make sure that it's washed and waxed on a regular basis. The oil is changed on a regular basis, the tires are rotated and repairs are done as necessary. When I own a girl, I have that same Pride of Ownership. I make sure she knows shes of great value to me in all ways. I've noticed 2 trends that continue to pop up in conversations that I've had with sub/slaves.

First, I've never understood lack of communication between a Dom/Master and his sub/slave. I've listened to sad tales of long periods of no correspondence or phone contact and I'm just flabbergasted by that phenomenon. When I have a girl, I tell her that if she doesn't hear from me at least once a day, call the hospitals because I'm probably in a coma. Now I'm a firm believer in Shit Happens, but it needs to be some really serious shit to keep me from letting my girl know what's going on.

Second I was reading the ad of a submissive who refuses to speak to any Dom/Master who would want her to quit smoking or lose weight. What struck me is that I want to own my girl for a very long time. That means that I want her to be as healthy as humanly possible. Obesity and smoking are 2 of the most dangerous things one can do to their body. I look at the behavior and habits of the girl that I'm involved with and make adjustments as I see fit and as negotiated.

I look forward to your responses.

Pavlov

_____________________________

As a matter of fact I DO have serious control issues.

Isn't it rich, aren't we a pair, Me on the ground, you in the air....

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 7:41:24 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Yup, people in Ds get to be and do whatever they want towards whatever purpose they want.

But you also have all the people who have told me and my owners that they are "not treating me right" because it's outside the "pampering norm" of most doms.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PavlovTrainer)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 7:47:39 AM

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PavlovTrainer

This post could be divided into 2 different threads, but I'm going to state them both here and see what happens. Might be a little lengthy, so bear with me.

When I own a car, I take good care of that car. I make sure that it's washed and waxed on a regular basis. The oil is changed on a regular basis, the tires are rotated and repairs are done as necessary. When I own a girl, I have that same Pride of Ownership. I make sure she knows shes of great value to me in all ways. I've noticed 2 trends that continue to pop up in conversations that I've had with sub/slaves.

First, I've never understood lack of communication between a Dom/Master and his sub/slave. I've listened to sad tales of long periods of no correspondence or phone contact and I'm just flabbergasted by that phenomenon. When I have a girl, I tell her that if she doesn't hear from me at least once a day, call the hospitals because I'm probably in a coma. Now I'm a firm believer in Shit Happens, but it needs to be some really serious shit to keep me from letting my girl know what's going on.

I think the communication needs to go both ways.

People who are not in face-to-face contact on a daily basis need to work out a system of communication that will be something they can maintain day in and day out. As long as they continue that agreed to communication, I think it is a healthy arrangement.

If communication stops then that either signals a problem (likely disappointment or anger) or signals the fact that at least one person no longer wants that relationship. I'm more saddened by people who somehow think they are still said relationship. Yes, I'm one of those who needs closure but others aren't and they will just walk away or stop talking -- if they come back after a long time why respond to them at all?

quote:

Second I was reading the ad of a submissive who refuses to speak to any Dom/Master who would want her to quit smoking or lose weight. What struck me is that I want to own my girl for a very long time. That means that I want her to be as healthy as humanly possible. Obesity and smoking are 2 of the most dangerous things one can do to their body. I look at the behavior and habits of the girl that I'm involved with and make adjustments as I see fit and as negotiated.

Your paragraph contains your answer.

That woman didn't want someone to try and change her, she wanted someone who would accept her, her habits, and her body as it is. Anyone approaching that woman who felt he/she had a right to change her in those areas is a fool for getting involved with her.

You can encourage change and growth only as far as you've negotiated and I'll add as much as the other person wants to change or grow. Again attempts and expectations that you can do more are set-ups for failure. I'd prefer to focus on possible successes.

But your general attitudes are something I can relate to and which I suspect many people can. We want our partners regardless of their DS or BD or SM role to be the best they can be.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to PavlovTrainer)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 7:58:33 AM

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PavlovTrainer

This post could be divided into 2 different threads, but I'm going to state them both here and see what happens. Might be a little lengthy, so bear with me.

When I own a car, I take good care of that car. I make sure that it's washed and waxed on a regular basis. The oil is changed on a regular basis, the tires are rotated and repairs are done as necessary. When I own a girl, I have that same Pride of Ownership. I make sure she knows shes of great value to me in all ways. I've noticed 2 trends that continue to pop up in conversations that I've had with sub/slaves.

First, I've never understood lack of communication between a Dom/Master and his sub/slave. I've listened to sad tales of long periods of no correspondence or phone contact and I'm just flabbergasted by that phenomenon. When I have a girl, I tell her that if she doesn't hear from me at least once a day, call the hospitals because I'm probably in a coma. Now I'm a firm believer in Shit Happens, but it needs to be some really serious shit to keep me from letting my girl know what's going on.

Second I was reading the ad of a submissive who refuses to speak to any Dom/Master who would want her to quit smoking or lose weight. What struck me is that I want to own my girl for a very long time. That means that I want her to be as healthy as humanly possible. Obesity and smoking are 2 of the most dangerous things one can do to their body. I look at the behavior and habits of the girl that I'm involved with and make adjustments as I see fit and as negotiated.

I look forward to your responses.

Pavlov

Obesity is now the number one killer, even more so than smoking.
But, they all have "medical problems", no-one is fat from eating too much or not getting enough excercise these days!

(in reply to PavlovTrainer)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 8:00:00 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

As far as treatment, my Dom is much like you as far as phone calls are concerned and if he is not timely in calling me when he does things like teach self defense classes in Mexico, or takes a plane, he knows I worry. It is called consideration. I know a lot of men feel this is a pain in the ass, all I can say is it is not kind to let someone wonder where you are and if you are alive. Shit does happen and he does not call me back at times, but even then he tells me earlier in the day what is going on with him, and calling my house after 11 pm is going to wake everyone up. If I am wondering what is up with him I am always free to call.

The second issue, that is a submissive's personal choice when seeking a dominant to find one that accepts her the way she is and does not desire to change her. Obviously this is not the sub for you. My former dom ordered me to quit drinking coffee, I tried to quit and couldn't seem to do it.. I love coffee. I told my Daddy about these things when we were negotiating that I am a coffee drinking carnivore, and that was not likely to change. He accepted this about me, although he does tell me to skip the junk and I do. The submissives that spell out they will not change some aspect of themselves will find dominants to serve and they probably found out the hard way that doms wanted to change them.

Not everyone gets into a dynamic trying to change the person they are with. It is not always necessary. I feel as though my Daddy would be there to help me change things in a positive way, and he may "order" me not to do things that would be bad for me, but the basic core of who I am is someone he wants... he does not want to change that. I think the best results happen when people are compatible with their habits and lifestyle... it leads to a lot less frustration... and I hate to break it to some doms, even though you guys order us to do things, we are still the ones that have to have the willpower to make that change.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to PavlovTrainer)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 8:14:35 AM

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PavlovTrainer

First, I've never understood lack of communication between a Dom/Master and his sub/slave. I've listened to sad tales of long periods of no correspondence or phone contact and I'm just flabbergasted by that phenomenon. When I have a girl, I tell her that if she doesn't hear from me at least once a day, call the hospitals because I'm probably in a coma. Now I'm a firm believer in Shit Happens, but it needs to be some really serious shit to keep me from letting my girl know what's going on.

If lack of communication is what some slaves wish to subject themselves to, or put up with, or settle for, or believe that this is what being a slave is for them, or it simply floats their boats, then hey, who am i to judge? We are all adults and are responsible for our choices and their outcomes.

i for one would not do well in such a situation. i believe that daily communication in some form is needed to foster a healthy connection, built upon mutual respect and trust. Without communication there isn't much of a connection now is there? i would feel less valued if i were to be ignored or neglected and left to wonder whats up all the time. i definitely would not feel connected.

However, for some this is what they seek, and for others, it is a methodology some dominants may use as perhaps a test or training of some sort. There are many varied reasons why a dominant may choose to do this with a sub/slave, just as there are many varied reasons why a sub/slave would subject themselves to this type of treatment. It may or may not appear to be healthy from the outside looking in, but only those involved can make that judgement call for themselves.

Second I was reading the ad of a submissive who refuses to speak to any Dom/Master who would want her to quit smoking or lose weight. What struck me is that I want to own my girl for a very long time. That means that I want her to be as healthy as humanly possible. Obesity and smoking are 2 of the most dangerous things one can do to their body. I look at the behavior and habits of the girl that I'm involved with and make adjustments as I see fit and as negotiated.

In this situation for me, it would be about obedience. How far i am willing to surrender and obey, or do i really want, or am i really ready and able to quit my addictions, etc. For when dealing with addictions, it changes everything. If a Master or dominant does not have the time, energy or patience, or care enough about the other person to go for the long haul, and wish to go through this process of helping someone quit their addictions, then simply move on. The person who is addicted has to be a very willing particpant or it won't work. To help a person quit an addiction, goes way outside a preferred lifestyle dynamic. One has to be able to find the root cause of that addiction, in order for the person to put it out of their system once and for all, and not fall back into it again. Not always an easy task, for many times the addiction is born from lack of self esteem, self value, or some other emotional issue. Much nurture and understanding has to be in place, and the sub/slave has to truly WANT the help of the dominant and be compliant and willing to go the distance for both themselves and the relationship. If not, it is a waste of time for all involved.

I look forward to your responses.

Pavlov

(in reply to PavlovTrainer)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 8:32:41 AM

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Joined: 10/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Not everyone gets into a dynamic trying to change the person they are with. It is not always necessary. I feel as though my Daddy would be there to help me change things in a positive way, and he may "order" me not to do things that would be bad for me, but the basic core of who I am is someone he wants... he does not want to change that. I think the best results happen when people are compatible with their habits and lifestyle... it leads to a lot less frustration... and I hate to break it to some doms, even though you guys order us to do things, we are still the ones that have to have the willpower to make that change.

This is a good point. i always let the other person know that i only have who i am to bring to the relationship. If i am asked to change who i am, i will move on, for obviously the dominant in question does not find who i am appealing. i can't be someone else, so don't ask me to change. i need to be accepted for who i am. i once met a dominant who told me that from now on my favorite color would be yellow instead of green. i laughed and said no thank you, go find yourself a yellow person! Simple example, but it is descriptive of many a larger issue as far as one person trying to, or thinking they can change another at their core, just because they are in a power exchange. When a person is not accepted for who they are, down the road, they begin to feel neglected, confused, or may even develope self esteem issues, etc. This fosters resentment and breeds contempt. It borders abuse, in the form of neglect, rejection, and abuse of the power given.

Now this is not the same as a sub/slave being obedient, or being trained to respond, dress, behave, or perform in certain areas that are pleasing to the dominant. It also depends on the unique nature of the connection and what is desired by the individuals involved.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 8:40:39 AM

Posts: 249
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

In regards to communication, it is a necessary MUST in any relationship, not just D/s or M/s. Without communication there can be no lasting, successful, fulfilling relationship.

in regards to health and smoking

I agree with you to a point. When if i first started corresponding with Master i had let him know that i was losing weight. Before meeting him, i had already lost almost 50 pounds and was trying to reach a second goal of another 50. Though Master was quite pleaseed with me the way I was, he helped me to plan out a new excercise and eating regime, and then made sure that i stayed with it.
I smoke, and so does Master. His only requirement on my smoking was that i slowly begin to wean myself. I was smoking close to 4 packs a day, and am now down to less than one.

so yes, I agree that health should be a major concern within relationships

_____________________________

~ When anger rises, think of the consequences
CONFUCIUS ~

(in reply to PavlovTrainer)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 8:42:12 AM

Posts: 117
Joined: 6/23/2006
Status: offline

i've often reflected on the idea of 'pride of ownership' as it pertains to D/s relationships. To me it connotes responsibility on the part of the owner.

To continue the analogy of the car, Pavlov, most cars have some sort of idiot light that lets you know it's time for a routine oil change but if the owner chooses to ignore it then there will surely be a more costly and avoidable repercussion. So an important job of the owner is to be responsive cause the oil can never change itself.

If i am asked or told to change something by my Sir and don't seem to be able to do so, as julia referenced, then it's a sign that i need more help. More work needs to be done to get to what's causing the block...is it just plain old rebellion, old crap that needs dealing with etc.

To me the Dom who is willing to work this hard has earned the right to claim pride in ownership.

_____________________________

I have no special talent. I am only passionately curious.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to raiken)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 9:04:15 AM

Posts: 847
Joined: 7/6/2005
From: Toronto, Ontario
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: PavlovTrainer

This post could be divided into 2 different threads, but I'm going to state them both here and see what happens. Might be a little lengthy, so bear with me.

When I own a car, I take good care of that car. I make sure that it's washed and waxed on a regular basis. The oil is changed on a regular basis, the tires are rotated and repairs are done as necessary. When I own a girl, I have that same Pride of Ownership. I make sure she knows shes of great value to me in all ways. I've noticed 2 trends that continue to pop up in conversations that I've had with sub/slaves.

First, I've never understood lack of communication between a Dom/Master and his sub/slave. I've listened to sad tales of long periods of no correspondence or phone contact and I'm just flabbergasted by that phenomenon. When I have a girl, I tell her that if she doesn't hear from me at least once a day, call the hospitals because I'm probably in a coma. Now I'm a firm believer in Shit Happens, but it needs to be some really serious shit to keep me from letting my girl know what's going on.

Second I was reading the ad of a submissive who refuses to speak to any Dom/Master who would want her to quit smoking or lose weight. What struck me is that I want to own my girl for a very long time. That means that I want her to be as healthy as humanly possible. Obesity and smoking are 2 of the most dangerous things one can do to their body. I look at the behavior and habits of the girl that I'm involved with and make adjustments as I see fit and as negotiated.

I look forward to your responses.

Pavlov

Obesity is now the number one killer, even more so than smoking.
But, they all have "medical problems", no-one is fat from eating too much or not getting enough excercise these days!

pssst Popeye, I am fat because i eat the wrong foods at the wrong times and hate exersize. Just so you know there are a few of us out there who dont blame something else for our weight difficulties.

Not meaning to hijack the thread or start another fat whomever thread I just could not resist........

Owned

_____________________________

~~in His Chains i am free~~

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 9:43:20 AM

FelinePersuasion

Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline

That's excatly why I got fat. I don't eat a bunch now sometimes barely 2 times a day not always complete or nutritious, but I sure don't exercise enough to loose any weight.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Obesity is now the number one killer, even more so than smoking.
But, they all have "medical problems", no-one is fat from eating too much or not getting enough excercise these days!

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 9:48:35 AM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

My Daddy has told me that he knows of Dominants that are what he terms "feeders", in other words they want an overweight submissive and encourage them to gain weight... anyone ever hear of this?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 9:59:51 AM

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My Daddy has told me that he knows of Dominants that are what he terms "feeders", in other words they want an overweight submissive and encourage them to gain weight... anyone ever hear of this?

Yes, this is one form of an unhealthy control, it is usually abusive, where the dominant is not secure within himself, so he uses whatever weakeness or obstacle found in sub/slave to keep her securely under his thumb, for he hasn't the skill, nature or othermeans to gain control. i view this as a form of emotional manipulation. This is only one area of many variables that can be indicative of this type of behavior. Codependancy plays a huge role as well as those who are enablers.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 10:04:53 AM

Mavis

Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My Daddy has told me that he knows of Dominants that are what he terms "feeders", in other words they want an overweight submissive and encourage them to gain weight... anyone ever hear of this?

Yes, i have heard of feeders, squicks me out more than scat, knew a submale who was really into it. i can't say for all, but he thought his Mistresses interest in it was knowing he was self-destructing for Her pleasure. Even with his eager consent, that struck me as unspeakably cruel. (since he was a chat roomer, no telling if the whole thng was a lie or not, i hope it was)

i hate foodplay anyway, i don't know why but eating sounds and stuff just mess me up. i actually stopped going to a local in-house munch because it seemed like every week that stupid move 9 1/2 weeks was on, with that feeding thingie going on. ::: orgph ::: Gotta admit though, as much as i loathe foodplay.. i do appearantly like food. "Let's bake bread and make soup!" would be a very hot game.

(edited for typos)

< Message edited by Mavis -- 9/14/2006 10:06:11 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 3:56:08 PM

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline

If doms could "order" their subs to loose weight all subs or slaves would be within the normal range, and since we all know thats not true there has to be a flaw in your logic. You are over simplifying an enormous difficulty and challenge many people face. No one would choose obesity. i am not saying people are helpless, they do need to address things that negatively impact their health and longevity, but that has to come from within, it can't be imposed on the person. All it would do it set the sub up for failure which would compound an already difficult situation. i think a dom can encourage his sub in this but to order her - doubtful it works for too many.

As far as your first question - well what's the point in being together if your not communicating? Counter productive on many levels.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to Mavis)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 4:09:03 PM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

No one would choose obesity.

That is a very infinitive argument, even if one person chose obesity it proves that statement false. If someone wanted to please their dominant and he wanted them fat, well they are choosing obesity. This kink is real. I was whining about not being able to have cheese cake when my Daddy told me about it and part of me wished he was into "feeding"..lol. Permission to eat all the time...but I would not be happy, so I should not joke about such things

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 4:34:37 PM

Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

No one would choose obesity.

That is a very infinitive argument, even if one person chose obesity it proves that statement false. If someone wanted to please their dominant and he wanted them fat, well they are choosing obesity. This kink is real. I was whining about not being able to have cheese cake when my Daddy told me about it and part of me wished he was into "feeding"..lol. Permission to eat all the time...but I would not be happy, so I should not joke about such things

i actually should have qualified that - i meant no one would choose it who was unhappy with it.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 4:53:51 PM

DomSA

Posts: 19
Joined: 8/29/2006
Status: offline

Pride of ownership can be a very powerful feeling...but it doesn't have to be limited to new or top-of-the-line possessions. To follow the car analogy; I can have great pride in the 15 year old, high mileage BUT dependable car that is owned free & clear. I will still take care of it and be very proud although someone else looking at may only see a piece of crap. Same for my sub; others may not see the beauty that I see in her but she is mine (free & clear) and I am proud of her.

Requiring a sub to do things against their will falls completely outside of the SSC rule that should be at the core of any D/s relationship. Building trust & respect is a matter of communicating what each party expects, receives and dislikes...and has to be based on a foundation of SSC. Forcing someone to lose weight obviously is not consensual. On the other hand if, as others have said, it is a goal of the submissive then it should be paramount to the Dom to help the submissive reach that goal. Otherwise the Dom is not holding up their end of the deal.

_____________________________

Life is like a giant roller coaster. It has its highs, lows, sharp turns, loop-the-loops and crazy twists. But no matter how exciting, terrifying, thrilling or white-knuckled the ride; the worse part is always the end.

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 5:31:28 PM

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Hmmmmmmmm

Pride of ownership. Some really nice burly scott explained it to me, unfortunetly i dun remember anything but the jist. I think it pretty much went along the same lines you are saying. If one cares, safety and care come first. Unfortunetly, i was pretty clouded at the time.. but i got the message!

i think those that dont, havent really a clue what they're doing and their cars break down alot.

As for Topic 1 - eh well, shit happens. Some ppl are good communicators, some arent. Some like to communicate, some dont. Sometimes, ppl match up wrong. As i am sure there are subs out there who dont want much communication while some Doms do.

As for Topic 2 - Its all perspective i guess. Some dont like being micromanaged that much, others do. Some want help, others are perfectly happy. Suppose it all has to do with the depth they want to get involved.

God knows

(in reply to PavlovTrainer)

RE: The Pride of Ownership - 9/14/2006 9:09:41 PM

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

I was "browsing pictures" in here and the sad part is looking at all the young women who are overweight and won't be making it to 45 years of life but stroke out or have heart attacks.
I mean what are they eating that's making them so fat?
You don't see this in other countries.

(in reply to velvetears)

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