RE: if unowned is she still a slave?

Collarchat.com

Create a
Free Account

As the Collar Turns:

Collarchat.com - BDSM Forum

Home Login Search

Espanol

Deutsch

Francais

Italiano

Portugues

RE: if unowned is she still a slave?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> RE: if unowned is she still a slave?

Page: << < prev 7 8 9 10 [11]

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 1:58:01 PM

sumlihana

Posts: 37
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline

quote:

I counter the topic question with, if there were no Men would slaves exist under the understanding and reasoning of Gorean slavery of women?

I think the slaves would still know how to serve and there place to the Free woman. men or no men its there nature to find and serve.

{edited cause my last thought made no sense to me}

< Message edited by sumlihana -- 12/24/2006 2:01:24 PM >

_____________________________

The north's untamed savage.....and story teller..

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 201

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 2:07:06 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

On many levels it comes down to acting in my book, most people act, because they don't honestly know what they feel. Slave doesn't know how to act, for she has a source continually forcing her to strip down to her bare soul and no matter how she fights it or tries to put up barriers, He doesn't allow such and she suddenly finds herself having no choice but to naturally be what she is -- herself. The one she may not even know or understand. This is the one her Master allows to exist and because of this, she is slave... the point then becomes and she learns to understand, this is the one her Master allows - operative word - to exist. It is his choice not hers. And the slave thrives under this, she is allowed to be naturally her. In the end the choice to be a slave to a Man is hers - her consent is needed -- however, surface slavery of consent is being a slave, being slave comes from what the Man allows of her, and most Gorean Men i know who understand the concept behind Gorean insist on the very core being bared not only to him but to the world -- why? because its the natural element of women to show their natural self to Him, the one who insists on such.

When a woman is not owned by a Man, she is the one who chooses what she will and will not be bared, it is her decision and in her control the layers that are pulled back or put up. Without the ownership, you simply have a woman who may have once been stripped bare, but now gets to make the decisions in how she pleases the Men. To be an unowned woman on many levels especially when the girl has been stripped bare before, is like having your wrist slit and your essence drained from you until you feel nothing. So you act, you make up feelings and definitions of those feeling because you have to, because the nothing is a pressure of suffication that seeks you searching for even a taste of the previous feeling, the freedom of feeling, the allowance of feeling.

Its my opinion, for a woman to have been once slave, to be unowned is pretty much a death sentence. It could also be why there are so many owned then unowned slaves, they are looking for that slavery that allows them the essence of feeling so they no longer have to act to make the nothingness a little more bearable. In otherwords, they are looking for the Man or Men who will feed them their fix of naturalness they want to feel.

Sometimes even being an owned slave doesn't alleviate the nothingness that not being slave brings to a woman because the Man has no clue how find slave. Being slave cannot be acted, it cannot be faked, its an essence a Man and only a Man can release from a woman.

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 202

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 2:12:34 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Hi sumlihana,

So you believe Gorean slavery is simply about the want to serve anything and anyone?

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to sumlihana)

Post #: 203

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 2:19:04 PM

sumlihana

Posts: 37
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline

no, defently not anything and anyone that is not what I ment. I mean somewhere along the lines if there were no Men to show them. they would turn to the higher females and find reason and place and guideance. They would wish to seek answers from somewhere and in turn would hunt till they found them. to find reasoning in why they would feel certain feelings or actions?
hope that makes more sense.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 204

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 2:39:04 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

smiles, i see where you are coming from, but take the scenero of there were never any Men, not that they just disappear and there is a division of slaves once owned by Men and women who are free. Are you saying that slaves are naturally weaker than free women so all women who are slaves now would fall to the feet of other women because of some ache to just serve, and that is why they are slave now to Men?

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to sumlihana)

Post #: 205

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 2:52:46 PM

sumlihana

Posts: 37
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline

~grins~ wow making me think tonight . ok if there were never any men where did the devision of slaves once owned come from that are now Free they would have had to learn it from somewhere?

as to a slave being weaker then a Free Woman I dont think so, sometimes I think slaves are stronger then them. but my in my opinion and it varies with knowledge.

not a ache to serve that brings one to there knees. I think more of his will the strength he would show. it would in some light a fire that would instantly bring her to her knees feeling that control and strength. perhaps a form of feeling protected?

I am thinking more on this ~smiles~ but must dissapear for a party i will return with maybe a better answer

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 206

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 2:59:23 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

smiles, nahh, i never want people to think lol. Enjoy your party.

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to sumlihana)

Post #: 207

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 4:58:52 PM

angharad

Posts: 229
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline

Greetings,

quote:

Are you saying that slaves are naturally weaker than free women so all women who are slaves now would fall to the feet of other women because of some ache to just serve, and that is why they are slave now to Men?

For me the answer is no.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 208

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 6:12:44 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Tal Jahna,

I think some have missed it in the books, but you said something on an email list a while back that I have been thinking alot about. It is part of a foundation principle with me so it will take a long while before I reconcile it but I know it will change at least some how I view things. Once I reread the first ten and finish the series I will be better able to post on this, but I think the cycle of being a woman is alot more than many may think.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jahnaca

quote:

The sexuality of the aroused slave girl is incomprehensible to the free woman. It is nothing she will ever understand. It is a color she cannot see, a sound she cannot hear.
- Beasts of Gor, Page 225

Greetings Kaledorus

Is that meant to imply that once a slave who has discovered her sexual nature becomes free she no longer comprehends that sexual side?

We must remember that Gorean book culture by in large discourage free women from exploring sexuality. It had nothing to do with ability it had all to do with cultural norms created by a society. Those very same women who previously under the cultural system of freedom for a female who were unable to comprehend sexuality, once thrust into the cultural system of slavery for a female discovered her sexuality. I believe that is a statement regarding cultural expectations and social taboos more then anything else. To believe it is anything but what it is, is futile.

IWYW

Jahna

(in reply to Jahnaca)

Post #: 209

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 6:14:47 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

I counter your question with a question. Would your question be better under it's own topic?

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I counterthe topic question with, if there were no Men would slaves exist under the understanding and reasoning of Gorean slavery of women?

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 210

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 6:19:41 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

no it wouldn't for the context of my counter-question conforms to the original topic question, even if it does not follow the same direction as other answers. Just because one asks a question in answer to a topic question, does not mean the question asked is off topic or should be segregated for purposes of being answered as a separate and distinct idea. This is the case here. To clarify, i specifically answered the topic question with my question knowing where and under what topic it was asked, my motive is pure to the topic at hand. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 12/24/2006 6:37:12 PM >

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 211

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 6:52:06 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Glad you set me straight <smirk>.

Did you ever think for once that I asked that because many just cruise the topics and I felt this an important question that more people may want to get involved in?

Your text comes across with alot of attitude to me, but I will allow you to better explain whether it does or not before I make that determination since it is difficult sometimes to determine tone in text.

I wonder if any other Free feel that your question is better served as a seperate topic.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

no it wouldn't for the context of my counter-question conforms to the original topic question, even if it does not follow the same direction as other answers. Just because one asks a question in answer to a topic question, does not mean the question asked is off topic or should be segregated for purposes of being answered as a separate and distinct idea. This is the case here. To clarify, i specifically answered the topic question with my question knowing where and under what topic it was asked, my motive is pure to the topic at hand. Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 212

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 6:57:08 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 37484
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

LOLOLOL,

A General Reply.

I thought this question could have been determined some 11 pages ago, but fear it will go on for at least 11 more.

Slave is not an elective office which is assumed upon the counting of popular or electoral college votes, or any form of lottery. This is true of the kajira as well as the other slaveish that have been owned and unowned throughout human history. One is willing (and I do not use that term in anyway that intimates that it is free-will, but only circumstantial) to give, and another is willing to take. That is Master and Slave, what is before and what is after the absence of Master and Slave? This is a contimuum and not a pie that slices......how many grains of sand make a pile as the sophistry goes? take one away? Kisshou (*just for you) this is equivalent to Sodom and Gemorrah. (But Lord, what if there are but 10 righteous men within the city? What if but 1?)

Glaedileg Jule!!!!

Ron

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 213

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 7:37:02 PM

ShreveportMaster

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/6/2004
From: Dallas, Tx
Status: offline

Tal Bull,
Not Simon Bar Sinister...Oil Can Harry! (or Snidely Whiplash, depends more on whether you were into Mighty Mouse, or Dudley Doright)
Mwahahahahahahahahaha!

_____________________________

"And to sooth the Bosk, there was found a Singing Cowboy. To soothe the Cowboy, a kajira is needed."

Riders of Gor
Book 37, Pg 298 ;-)

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 214

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 8:18:43 PM

barelynangel

Posts: 6233
Status: offline

Well, you can rest assured, i find this topic to be and it has always been to me one of much interest and importance, especially in the terms of Gorean thinking and living Gorean slavery as many women do today in this age of consent and more importantly, why women became and were slaves within the concept of Gor amd how that translates to the course of being a slave in today's society. Men have and always will play a major part in slavery of women within Gorean terms, therefore, asking a question that eliminates a major factor in that equation does connect to the topic at hand of if unowned is she still a slave and is designed to bring forth answers toward the actual topic in discussion. i am sorry if you felt there was confusion because of my question.

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 215

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 8:34:10 PM

damia

Posts: 190
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline

my apologies if my belated response to the OP's question is irrelevant to the ongoing conversation.

While i do not live in a Gorean relationship, i know a few who do, and have researched a little into it. i am certainly by no means have much knowledge, but would like to give my opinion. In the Gorean lifestyle, i originally thought no, it's not possible for a woman to be a slave without a Master, because of the structured difference between free women and slaves. But then i read an article that persuaded me otherwise. It said, "If you were a woman you were either free or a slave in nature...If she had slave feelings a women animal would naturally seek and find a collar. If a free female submitted to slavery through submission or during capture she was declared slave and disowned, she lost any caste or family standing she had. As a slave and animal by common law you could not even instruct a free person."

So it seems to me that at any moment, if a free woman had slave feelings, she was no longer a free woman, and then and there became a slave. This is just my interpretation of what i read. i will be reading the entire conversation, and keeping up with it as much as i can, because the Gorean lifestyle interests me (though the concept of Gor appeals to me, i admit i am mostly interested out of curiousity) and because i love these intellectual conversations.

[Quote taken from the essay, Free Women of Gor]

damia

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 216

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 9:27:41 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Who are you and what did you do with the real Ron?

Orion

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 217

RE: if unowned is she still a slave? - 12/24/2006 9:32:05 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

I find it very interesting as well but thought since this topic has played out, you could post it as a new topic and we could explore it more. A Gorean Man does not need a slave to be a Gorean Man. If there had never been Gorean men I am not sure if there would have been slaves, just alot of women who were very submissive and some dominant ones to control them. Won't go much further than that though.

Orion

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Well, you can rest assured, i find this topic to be and it has always been to me one of much interest and importance, especially in the terms of Gorean thinking and living Gorean slavery as many women do today in this age of consent and more importantly, why women became and were slaves within the concept of Gor amd how that translates to the course of being a slave in today's society. Men have and always will play a major part in slavery of women within Gorean terms, therefore, asking a question that eliminates a major factor in that equation does connect to the topic at hand of if unowned is she still a slave and is designed to bring forth answers toward the actual topic in discussion. i am sorry if you felt there was confusion because of my question.

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 218

Page: << < prev 7 8 9 10 [11]

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles >> RE: if unowned is she still a slave?

Page: << < prev 7 8 9 10 [11]

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2012

Collarchat.com is a member of the Free Speech Coalition

Terms of Service

0.270