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ORIGINAL: KajiraResources
L&M,

Now for the big question: Do you believe that if the rate of conviction and the rate of reported instances has fallen that automatically means the rate of occurance has fallen?

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Clearly the rate of conviction is merely a side effect of the rate of reported instances.  In a society where the rapist will likely be back on the streets in 5-10 years that can be pretty scary to a victim.

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Now lets examine the manner in which victims are handled on the stand:  They generally are villafied and treated as though they are filthy little sluts asking for it, almost criminals themselves for the dress and mannerisms that they adopt just to get the acceptance of a sexually skewed society.  I know not all of them go through this but it is what they are learning from TV and books, and the media today and yes many of them do go through the whole painful mess.

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So I leave you with why wouldn't the rate of reported instances have fallen?  In addition the rate of conviction on any orignal charges without a plea bargain in america is 3%. that means that 97% of all people charged with rape that get to court are plea bargained to lesser offenses like agravated assalt that is a standard of operations in every legal system in this country.  That said,  you might actually want to "Look into it". 

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You will find the same with murder, drug dealing, and many other reduced crime rates, they almost all have a shadow of a higher rate of lesser crimes that they bargain to.

Jarl Torvald

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ORIGINAL: RedDragonFreehol

Tal Jahna,

Absolutely, and why rape, as defined by western societies, is not rape there.  Rape is, and has always been, a social definition that defines something that is at its heart simply natural forced mating in a mammalian species as morally wrong.  If you remove the social definition, and you look at it from a purely natural standpoint, it has a basis in ensuring that the strongest males mate with as many fertile females as possible, thereby ensuring the birth of many strong offspring, and ultimately, the survival of species.  Rape is something that was first applied as a definition to prevent strong males from taking the females from weaker males, and has been extrapolated, in modern feminist influenced cultures, into a crime against the woman whereby her "right to choose a mate" is violated.  Naturally, this "right" never existed.  The male conquored the female, took her as mate, and then defended his right to mate with her through violent challenge with other males.  Only the strongest male in most mammalian species is allowed to mate with the females of the herd, pride, etc.  This makes sure that the strongest offspring are born, and it ensures that the offspring are more capable of survival.  Within humanity, we have developed a social order that is of the weak, by the weak, and ultimately breeds weaker and weaker human animals, more reliant on technology for survival.  Animals that were they subject suddenly to natural law would be incapable of survival.

Be well,

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ORIGINAL: KajiraResources

Fyre,

You are correct in that, I hadn't read your post before posting my own but you are right on track with this one.

Jarl

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ORIGINAL: KajiraResources

You also completely overlooked the plea bargain arguement.

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ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

Greetings,

a 'rape' may be reported as aggrevated battery or (some similiar charge) depending on the evidence that the DA's office has to charge.....

these bargains are sometimes done before the charges even actually occur when the DA and an atty for the perpetrator get together and check  evidence that they have vs evidence that is needed for conviction...yet there may be a witness....so the deal is struck for such and such charge even tho the crime that was committed was in reality something else

This girl is a victims advocate she works with these types or crimes on a regular basis...sometimes her role is to decipher the system to the victim and other days it is to hold their hand and offer counseling...

whatever is needed to get them through the trauma

May she wish you well

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ORIGINAL: fyreredsub

Greetings Master Orion,

It can not be done without breaking a clients confidentiality.

Also,she is extremely familiar with the  processes and procedures based on what evidence is on hand as opposed to what is needed to convict (these can be found in GA SS/law enforcement codes) ((ecspecially if it is an election year)).

A suspect can sit in jail for up to 72 hours before being 'charged with a crime' so in all actuality he may have raped someone but they may not have the evidence to convict for the crime but in examining the evidence they may find they can convict on a battery charge so then ...he gets  booked and arraigned and bonds out and a rape goes unreported in the cjcc stats and then a plea bargain may be struck also depending on how long he sat in jail before bond/court date with regard to being considered as time served/punishment as well the perp already getting a  break on the charge because of the evidence.

May she wish you well

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Found some more stats that actually show a dramatic increase since 1960. In 1960 it appears the rape ratio was approx 10 per 100,000 people, in 1992 or 1993 it appears it was at an all time high of approx 43 per 100,000 people, and in 1998 34.4. These stats appear to show a decline in the last 10 years, which seems to be supported in several different reports but there has been a dramatic increase since 1960.

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

LAM, could you start providing some of your sources for your statements? I have seen you ask others for their proof but have as yet seen you post a source for your claims. This would help everyone that is concerned with this issue to understand it better.

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ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

You're gettin' there, but you need to plot your rape figures against violent crime in general.  ALL crime has increased since 1960, and ALL crime has decreased since 1990.  Violent crime has generally followed the same pattern.  And you might want to ask what else has followed the same pattern...like...DRUG ABUSE...to name just an obvious example.

Also, it's misleading to say that "there has been a dramatic increase since 1960" because the peak occurred nearly 15 years ago.  (So that would be like saying there's been a dramatic increase in the use of steam engines since 1700.)  The dramatic increase was in the period 1960-1990, and since then there has been a no less dramatic decrease, considering the length of the two time intervals.

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Found some more stats that actually show a dramatic increase since 1960. In 1960 it appears the rape ratio was approx 10 per 100,000 people, in 1992 or 1993 it appears it was at an all time high of approx 43 per 100,000 people, and in 1998 34.4. These stats appear to show a decline in the last 10 years, which seems to be supported in several different reports but there has been a dramatic increase since 1960.

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

First off, is LAM how you wish to be addressed because I am sure not going to use your full handle <chuckles>.

I am also looking at the stats for violent crimes now. It seems that all violent crimes have increased/decreased with similar rates. Yes I have thought of drug use as a possible correlation, since it effects violent crime stats in general. I also read briefly over a study of the family going to dual parent incomes and relation to crime in general but I am I have seen so many that had alterior motives for their report I just saved it to read later.

How is it misleading to say there has been a dramatic increase since 1960? It appears to me that it is dramatic, though yes there has been a decline in the last decade. If you take the most current stat I could find which is from 1998 34.4% and compare to 1960 which is 10%, then it seems dramatic to me. What percentage increase or decrease would you consider dramatic?

To everyone else and to LAM, do you think that serial rape should be excluded, since it seems to be a severe mental condition and I do not see any amount of principles that can fix compulsive disorders as extreme as those? I have found report that break down the different types of rates but still no definition of what constitutes those.