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Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in confusion?


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Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in conf... - 12/2/2006 9:31:13 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Tal My Gorean Friends and Others that are interested in this issue,

The woman Jahaca made a comment in another thread about a subject matterthat has stirred a boil within my soul, I am about to spell it out. I think our community should indeed consider this.

I have been long pondering this very dilemma. Dateline with their seemingly never ending series on pedophiles. The ever consistant headlines of rape and needless murder. Ok, without a doubt the world has always had these people, but do they seem to be growing in numbers. Holy shit, it showed one dork that brought his own small son to a meeting with a very young girl. Let's breed the next generation of weak and confused men, then watch them train their sons to be JUST LIKE THEM.


My point is, we understand that men are more generally than not supposed to lead themselves, then their family, then their community and so on. Well, we have spent a great deal of time in our western culture trying to raise and lower standards to create equality. We have spent a great deal of time trying to push away the more qualified man in order to give a minority a chance.

We have seemingly through what I see as pity tried to help a person that didn’t even want to get off their ass to rise up. In the process we have created the masses that scream it’s not fair waiting for their next handout. The western world men as they grow no long must maintain accountability, oh us fathers can scream all we want, ”my son has to tow the line here” but the fact is he plays a good game for you and then walks out the door, to find the path of least resistance. There a lots of those anymore. I think one of our more noble Black leaders said, “a child is raised by the community.” I ponder the boy that inspected Tarl’s pretty blond slave in Tribesman.

As our society continues to emasculate the men, to soften them is this only breeding internal confusion that creates these pedophiles, rapist and such. Are their internal mechanisms spinning out of control? Perhaps their nature is driving them to seek domination and the homelife with more times than not no true guide, or a only a mother which really has no idea what she has to teach a boy in order that he become a man. No offense to women, but I have also seen women that a farther failed miserably at in teach female things too. Is my line of thinking off base when I blame first a war that killed millions upon millions of the worlds men.

Is it then this industrial machine that Norman blames for the corruption of the natural flow of life. Today not only on adult works and has little time for the children, but more than not, both work, and work long hard hours in the name of getting ahead….Are we? Do your children, the next generation, suffer? Did sending mom to the factories and not having a father return home from a war start the ruination of the natural flow of life and send us spinning into confusion? Why is it so difficult for us to hold a person accountable for their personal actions? We leave it to anonymous groups to control us and our offspring. Is that what anyone elses Gorean principles tell them?

To me, you want to call yourself a Gorean! Start here with your philosophies. Start at the point where the man meets the road. The slaves and paga substitutes will be available anytime. What is it to be a Gorean you ask? It’s standing by your principles; learn to improve upon them, live shoulder to shoulder with MEN. Demand and expect accountability in them and yourself. Jump off the path most traveled if it’s leading us to ruin. Apathy towards the trying issues of our day, only breeds the wars of tomorrow. (looks down at his coffee…”I’ve had plenty of that”) The actual question was do you believe that the lack of manhood and direction in the lives of men, the deprivation of their enternal instinct to conquer and own is costing our children? Is the pedophile actually some weak man trying to fill a need he doesn’t understand with the easiest and simplest target available?

I didn’t mean to go on and on. This is a passionate issue to me. Doesn’t it seem like we as men spend a great deal of time repairing the transgressions of weak men that have scared our females. Your thoughts on this will obviously be well considered by me.

Live well Friends,

Bull
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 9:35:05 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10836
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah.

See, it's posts like this that give the Gorean board a bad name.  There were rapists and pedophiles long before industrialization--probably more than there are now.  The difference is that now they're more often exposed to the public.

I love the way you equate "the minority" with the less "qualified man."  Way to expose your prejudices there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

My point is, we understand that men are more generally than not supposed to lead themselves, then their family, then their community and so on. Well, we have spent a great deal of time in our western culture trying to raise and lower standards to create equality. We have spent a great deal of time trying to push away the more qualified man in order to give a minority a chance.

[snip]

As our society continues to emasculate the men, to soften them is this only breeding internal confusion that creates these pedophiles, rapist and such.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 10:03:52 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yeah.

See, it's posts like this that give the Gorean board a bad name.  There were rapists and pedophiles long before industrialization--probably more than there are now.  The difference is that now they're more often exposed to the public.

I love the way you equate "the minority" with the less "qualified man."  Way to expose your prejudices there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

My point is, we understand that men are more generally than not supposed to lead themselves, then their family, then their community and so on. Well, we have spent a great deal of time in our western culture trying to raise and lower standards to create equality. We have spent a great deal of time trying to push away the more qualified man in order to give a minority a chance.

[snip]

As our society continues to emasculate the men, to soften them is this only breeding internal confusion that creates these pedophiles, rapist and such.



Did you miss in the beginning where Bull said this "Ok, without a doubt the world has always had these people, but do they seem to be growing in numbers." ?

Do you not see it as a valid point of discussion, that the industrialized world or current society is contributing to these problems?

Granted it may be that they are just more noticed now in the Age of Communication but should that be considered fact or proven as such?

Orion

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 10:13:37 AM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline 		Bull,

This is a question that has been asked - and answered - by scholars throughout written history.  There are some very well preserved texts from the early days of the Roman Empire that bemoan the state the world has come to with the advancement of civilization, specifically citing incidents such as you are describing.  The answer to this scholar references similar happenings even earlier than that in response, though those cites are more anecdotal in nature.

Such incidents are likewise documented among primitive or tribal cultures, though they are rarer in the very small and close-knit groups of under 100 individuals.  They still occur in those groups, but the culprits are much more often known and punished.  In the larger tribal groups, they are considered to be the work of "evil spirits" and may culturally be blamed on such things.  In Africa there is a longstanding phenomenon known as a "leopard murder" which is (at least theoretically) blamed on leopards as it bears all the hallmarks of such an attack including the mutilation. Since the mutilation may be specifically targeted to the breasts and genitals, and trophies may be taken, which real leopards don't do, the murders are blamed on "ghost leopards" or transformed witch doctors. 

Similar incidences can be cited from other cultures which would qualify as primitive, nomadic or hunter/gatherer, and/or well organized and patriarchial.  One of the most male dominated cultures extant, the Muslim group in the Middle East, produces an absolutely huge number of sex crimes per capita including rape, rape-murder and molestation.  The structure of their society allows offenders to continue offending with minimal or no penalty as long as the offenses are committed only against people of low social status who have no recourse.

As a broad generalization (specific numbers vary by locality), as far as the folks studying these things can determine, per capita we have not significantly increased the incidences of that type of violent crime.  We have significantly increased our population and the ease and speed of communication about such incidents, both of which combine to create the impression that we have more of those things happening.  We do, for the simple reason that we have a larger population.  The percentages still remain reasonably consistent. 

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 10:15:11 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		He with the Elephant photo,

You should pay better attention to what you reading their mister flamer. I asked if it was... How should that give anything a bad name.... Did I have a passionate post? you damn right, I'm a passionate man. It's funny that when posed questions about men standing up for principles, you would choose to chastise. I would say that you should have considered that saying, "if I can't say anything good......"

As for the predudices, do I have them, hell yes, your type is one of them. Your little ID title hopefully describing who you are to the rest of us.You see, I didn't equate the minority with lesser, you attempted to spin it that way. But that's what you do, I've watch your posts. You see, it was what seems to be a failed attempt at affirmative action that was what I was referring to, but you knew that, you seen an opportunity to create spin and flame so you did. I never said that a minority man couldn't be the more qualified man, but in AA we forced the roles to not even consider that, first we had to consider gender or race or whatever the quota was...Again, we have all witnessed it's results and my point was is men should always be judged on ther individual merit..or a woman on hers. A man must ammend his ways with other men, it must come from his heart and his beliefs or it is false, it can't be made right through a law, what growth does that instill in society, it is a sham that is condenmed behind the scenes when obstructed from the light of day. Only men can change their hearts, not written law. My whole life when face with a man of worth and noble merit, I seen nothing but a man, no creed, color or religion. When I was faced with a man that was deceptive, shiftless and fraudulent I seen only a man, no creed, no color, no religion. As for your seening all Goreans bad because of my post, where does that leave your prejudices. Judging by all within your posts to me, I would suggest to you as well to just block or ignore me. You and I will not be on any friendly basis ever. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Yeah.

Bull

note to the Mod 11, I know, cool it fellas.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 10:31:09 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Tal Najacharmer,

Thanks for your positive and enciteful posts. one part of it leads most closely to my thoughts, In the extremes of the Muslim faith, is it not correct though that they suppress sexuallity as well. It's the we always want what we can't have therory, right? They mutilate their females genitalia to ensure they have no sexual erges and therefore have no desire to engage in sexual activity? It was my point about using what we deem as proper ways to force people from actually living as nature has programmed in us. Men in the middle east as I seen do not dare drink to relax and enjoy eachothers company, I never seen a tittie bar anywhere over there,maybe it's because I can't read Arabic. Not tht a tittie bar would stop rape, My point is when you repress your sexual erge isn't it eventually going to explode. Exspecially for men, we seem to have semen build ups or something....(<----humor) I seem to be missing terribly with my point here, that's what I get for typing with my passions instead of my mind.

I await you thoughts, everyones thoughts,

Bull


PS  to Orion..............thanks for that note in your post, I thought it was mentioned well enough about life always having it's criminal element..It rested my mind that perhaps my whole message was lost in this damn typed word. I should have taken some college....Creative writing or something.....

(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 10:41:32 AM   
Piyush


Posts: 68
Joined: 8/3/2006
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Status: offline 		xBullx, you write creatively as is, peeps just have to read things carefully.

Piyush.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 11:02:22 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10836
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		No, I didn't miss it.  Since there's absolutely no evidence that they're growing in numbers, and plenty of evidence that they're actually declining, I took it as nothing more than an uninformed statement by someone who doesn't bother to check his facts.  I didn't feel I had to respond to EVERY uninformed statement in the OP's post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Did you miss in the beginning where Bull said this "Ok, without a doubt the world has always had these people, but do they seem to be growing in numbers." ?

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 11:04:39 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10836
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		There was no way for me to know that you were talking about your AA meetings.

But NOW I understand.  Minorities are taking up all the places that should be reserved for the more qualified white alcoholics.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

I never said that a minority man couldn't be the more qualified man, but in AA we forced the roles to not even consider that, first we had to consider gender or race or whatever the quota was...


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 12/2/2006 11:05:51 AM >

(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 1:31:00 PM   
Yiska


Posts: 4
Joined: 11/11/2006
Status: offline 		There are females that perpetrate sexual abuse as well.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 2:11:14 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I agree that there has been a decline in the last decade and evidence to support that but what about the further back you go?

Orion

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 5:26:33 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Elephant boy,

Well you would think with all those posts credited to your sceen name, you would have some sense by now. But I see your just someone looking for trouble. It's obvious you wanted to see if misrepresenting my Afirmative Action post and inferring I was a white alcoholic, would inflame me further.....I have bad news for you, all you managed to do was discredit yourself. You can dance around the facts as to what your true intention was, but it was obvious that you simply wanted to put spin on my post. You had no intention to add constructive comments.

You have been sited for what you are.

This is the last post I will waste on you though. I asked some very important questions and have more to ask and add to serious issues with regards to this. If your spin is all you have to offer, don't bother. Valid well written responses even if they disagree with my sense of values, are considered. If you had some relevent facts that may have hightened an awareness that would have been useful, you could have added them to the thread like a man and not an attention seeking child. But you knew what you were doing, it was your intention to flame. Your second post is evidence of that.

The fact that there may be a bit of a drop in the problem is note worthy, but it has not rid us of a issue, it will most likely always exist  to some degree, but when the issue is brought up and all someone can do is start a pissin match for his own selfish reasons or to draw attention away from the issue. Perhaps it's more obvious that he may be part of the reason the problem exists. Slander through suggestion was the intent of your AA comment? Grow up fellow.

As they say, "Don't go away mad",

Bull

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 5:59:50 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
Thanks for your positive and enciteful posts. one part of it leads most closely to my thoughts, In the extremes of the Muslim faith, is it not correct though that they suppress sexuallity as well. It's the we always want what we can't have therory, right?  They mutilate their females genitalia to ensure they have no sexual erges and therefore have no desire to engage in sexual activity?


In some areas they do practice female circumcision, in some areas they do not.  You do have a good point about sexual repression tending to cause aberrant sexual behavior; look at Catholic priests as an example.  However it is a fairly rare human society that does not require some form of social restraint on sexual behavior, if only for economic reasons.  I'm not sure that can specifically be pointed to in many cases as a really direct cause and effect model for the types of sex crimes you are describing.  It may be one of the underlying causes, but these same crimes are consistently seen in societies with very different cultures and sexual mores. 

Even in a theoretically "free sex" society where men could easily gratify their urges with slaves or cheap prostitutes (which is pretty much how things are in any big city in the world), sexual crimes of violence including those directed against "unmentionables" would still persist.  The crimes may be sexual in nature but are not necessarily the direct result of a frustrated sex drive per se. 

(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 7:07:17 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Tal Najacharmer,

I was just today talking to my FC about the Catholic Priests and their suppressed sexuality. I'm not sure if their life causes these issues or draws the offenders. It is argued both ways, I have my opinion.  I agree that society could never just have an open sexual feast. I do believe that was may have spelled the ruin of some social orders. Caos and deseases maybe, but I'm not a historiain, so bare with me. (Damn this pisses me off, I feel like I need to type disclaimers now since some people have to toss spin, not meaning you Naja) My references are mostly from life experience. In Germany, I seen that sexuality wasn't hidden. With regard to females at the lake or a pool they often wore no top, children almost always ran naked at public pools. My sons didn't own a bathing suit and swam all the time at the pool. Hell, my sons never went through that..."I see your boobies" thing either, they had seen them indifferently from the time they were very young. Try that at an American pool. This is simply meant as an example on  how when you don't take away the apple, no one is desperate to attain it.

On  the other topic, I understand that not all Muslim are defacing their beautiful women. It is sad to say that it is done at all. My humorous Gorean response would be, "doesn't that detract from their value?" But I find no humor in a torture, I believe is simply to control a woman with the ease of mutilation, instead of putting effort into developing a devotion into someone that belongs to you. Perhaps a case of the path easiest taken.

I think like with our Gorean society, or in particular the BDSM or Leather worlds, you have a great degree of sexual understanding. The human body is not in anyway a taboo. It is in fact rather well understood, and studied in depth and most of the time people attempt to live and let live. I'm sure that there are those in this lifestyle that over do it. Hell, I was contacted by a slave that wanted to talk to me about owning her. The only limit she said she had was no death before age 55. OK, I'm not a heavy Sadist so my jaw did the drop thing. But I thought to myself, it certainly is true that for every man there is a girl, and visa versa.

I was thinking about the posts from earlier when I went to the market. I do understand that pedophiles and other criminal types have always been around, hell to some degree they always will be. But if there is a way we can find understanding in why some of these people are here. Couldn't we then put good minds to work solving this and move forward as a society. I have actually asked this before in more vanilla surroundings and I have heard the it's always been a part of this world. And that's it, no one ever continues, like they are ok with the idea it will always be here so, hey. But in the meantime, the Bill O'Riellys of the world want more and more laws to take away more and more civil liberties. I like Bill, he's passionate and intelligent. I just don't like the all inclusive laws that rob from the innocent to punish the guilty.

Back to my time in Germany, I would go to the squash courts and hit the saunas afterwards and the men and women would both be in the small rooms naked as a jaybird, at first I was very self conscience, but after a time, I wouldn't even think much of it. Oh a nice set of breasts would catch my eye, but I don't remember thinking adverse of thoughts.(smiles) I can speak rather good German but can't read it. In this point, I would like to say, I don't remember hearing very much about rape there. I know lots of rape goes unreported in the world, but in the only rapes I remember,  it would be an American GI. Like I said, I couldn't read their papers, maybe more criminal sexual cases where happening, I am not sure. I did have many German friends, I asked them about this and they would say, Americans do have sexual frustrations. Is that do to this puritan society? I don't know. I'm curious about it though. Your turn.....

Live well,

Bull

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 7:38:37 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10836
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Don't call me elephant boy AND childish in the same post.  That makes you look like you're contradicting yourself, don't you think?

"AA" means "Alcoholics Anonymous"; it doesn't mean "affirmative action."  It's not my fault that your posts are semi-intelligible.

And the only person who's avoiding "facts" is you.  Rape and pedophilia have gone DOWN, not up.  Please explain that phenomenon.

Or read more about it, if you're presently unable to do so.  That would be a welcome development.

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Elephant boy,

Well you would think with all those posts credited to your sceen name, you would have some sense by now. But I see your just someone looking for trouble. It's obvious you wanted to see if misrepresenting my Afirmative Action post and inferring I was a white alcoholic, would inflame me further.....I have bad news for you, all you managed to do was discredit yourself. You can dance around the facts as to what your true intention was, but it was obvious that you simply wanted to put spin on my post. You had no intention to add constructive comments.

You have been sited for what you are.

This is the last post I will waste on you though. I asked some very important questions and have more to ask and add to serious issues with regards to this. If your spin is all you have to offer, don't bother. Valid well written responses even if they disagree with my sense of values, are considered. If you had some relevent facts that may have hightened an awareness that would have been useful, you could have added them to the thread like a man and not an attention seeking child. But you knew what you were doing, it was your intention to flame. Your second post is evidence of that.

The fact that there may be a bit of a drop in the problem is note worthy, but it has not rid us of a issue, it will most likely always exist  to some degree, but when the issue is brought up and all someone can do is start a pissin match for his own selfish reasons or to draw attention away from the issue. Perhaps it's more obvious that he may be part of the reason the problem exists. Slander through suggestion was the intent of your AA comment? Grow up fellow.

As they say, "Don't go away mad",

Bull

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 8:48:22 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 3962
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Tal Goreans one and all,

I must say, I am rather disappointed in myself....I didn't want to comment on this damn issue again but I have too.........First, in calling the other poster in this thread "Elephant boy" I agree that this is hypocritical, I told him to grow up and then called him names, that was foolish on my part, I knew this after I reread it in the forum, I didn't want to edit it so anyone out there could put the spin on me that I was changing my posts or that I was hiding something...damned these Gorean principles of mine at times.....I am to not without the ability to do dumb shit it seems. I am making this point in open forum for a number of reasons. First, I should have used better judgement, second, If I can't post like an adult why would anyone care to read what I have to say. So my time here would then be a waste. For as silly a reason as it may be, I addressed this individual in this manner simply do to the fact I have absolutely no idea what his name is. I'm sure that most men would agree with me, I will never call anyone lord or master. That may be simple minded. But that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. In closing this is my appoligy to the Gorean men out there, I would hope I am seen as somewhat credible, even if not always as intelligent as some of you. I don't want anyone out there having the right to chastise the Gorean way due to my shortcomings.


Live well,

Bull

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/2/2006 10:29:14 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
I do understand that pedophiles and other criminal types have always been around, hell to some degree they always will be. But if there is a way we can find understanding in why some of these people are here. Couldn't we then put good minds to work solving this and move forward as a society.


Some very good minds are already working on many ways to solve this problem, and the tools for finding them and catching them just keep getting better thanks to modern technology.  At the same time the human population keeps getting bigger and denser, so the actual number of these kinds of crimes may grow even though the percentage of people committing them (at least more than once) is likely to continue to drop. 

I'm not convinced that free nakedness or free sex in a society is likely to drop the sex crime rate.  A comparative look at different societies and their rate of sex crime really doesn't tend to support that theory.  I do agree that a generally less sexually repressed, taboo-bound society is much healthier and happier, and I would certainly support efforts to steer society in that direction.

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/3/2006 5:24:51 AM   
MmakeMme


Posts: 682
Joined: 7/29/2006
From: NC
Status: offline 		This is my opinion only, and if you notice that I am jumping up and down on a soapbox ... well ... I am.

Think about raising children. Do you allow them to scream and throw fits and do nothing and demand everything? Hopefully not. You raise them to be responsible productive citizens. You love them and you guide them and you punish them.

It does not seem to be the way the world works. Someone says "Give me!" and you say "No."

So someone says "GIVE ME! LET ME!" and you say "Why should I? You have not earned it."

So someone says "GIVE ME AND LET ME OR I WILL SUE YOU!"

Everybody has "rights", and some will push this to an extreme. Of course there have to be extremes on both ends in order to have some concensus in the middle, but what it seems to me is that the fringes are loud, overly self-entitled, and can command the media because it ~is~ extreme, and the rest of us watch and listen to it.

_____________________________

Happiness is not something ready made. It comes from your own actions. ~~ Dalai Lama

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/3/2006 9:31:34 AM   
blkqueen48


Posts: 10
Joined: 11/4/2006
Status: offline 		Well said!!!!!

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: Is the rapist and pedophile a result of a world in ... - 12/3/2006 10:26:24 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 1488
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Tal Bull
 
If I may add, having college degress in Criminal Justice as well as advance Degrees and lots of experience in the field.  It is still not sure if it is nature or nurture that creats these offenders.  There have been and I have been involved in programs that are suppose to help rehabiliate sex offenders and drug abusers, saddly many fail, the reasons are many.  I personally  asked myself how effect these programs are when the offender enters the program to avoid taking the responisbilty for their actions, yet the program stresses personal  responisbility. 
 
A model called "Theraputic Community" works on princple that a community can help and change a person.  The most known group using this model was Synanon, in the end this group was closed down, it had become a regilous cult that never could prove it was effective and phyiscally attacked anyone who questioned it. 
 
Your question, has no easy answer, but I do feel as some do, that our socity has lost many of rights of passage that made a socity strong and Honor was taught.
 
I wish you well
 
Nosathro

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

(in reply to xBullx)
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