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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/2/2007 3:01:16 PM

caitlyn

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Can you quantify with fact, how feminism is a contributing factor?

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/2/2007 4:07:48 PM

Maahsatti

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Yes, the number of women who left the home to find quote "equal job oportunity" and "equal pay". Just to name one example. Women became more discontent to be the House Wife/Mother and it spread like wild fire. The mentality was,Well, if those woman are doing it, I want to as well. Magazines started booming forth that were women based with loads of notions and idea's to further this discontentment and thats not an opinion, those are facts.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/2/2007 4:15:24 PM

Leonidas

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quote:

I know this sounds like I need a tin foil hat ... but again, examine the factual numbers. Men make just a high a percentage of income compared to the GNP, as they did when most women didn't work ... more in fact. The difference is that the average American family spends, and spends, and spends. If we spent less, there would be more than enough money with one income to support a family ... but that would mean no plasma TV, or cars that cost as much as a house.

Um... yeah. Here are a couple of things for you to consider caitlyn. It's good that you're in school right now being schooled on things. A couple of things that you need to consider though is that nobody is particularly motivated to do a study on how the economy has adjusted to women in the workplace and whether their entry into the workplace has had any detrimental effect. Any study to that effect would be done outside academia by some "conservative" think tank and be just as quickly dismissed as heresy.

In 1968, my Uncle was a policeman in Los Angeles. He earned about $19,000 dollars that year. He bought a middle-class house that year in Orange County for about $32,500, or roughly twice his blue-collar salary. He also bought a Chevy Nova that year, new, for $2500. So the house cost roughly twice his salary. The car cost about an eighth of what he made. A middle class, nothing special house in the LA area (though it would be much farther from the city now) would run about $350,000 today. A mid-sized chevy would cost about $20,000 or so. A cop with a few years on the force in LA earns around $65,000 now. So the house costs about 5 times a blue-collar salary. A car about 30%. Quite a change from 1968. In fact, oddly enough, these things somehow, strangely, seem to cost about double (relative to the salary figure) what they used to. Is that a wierd coincidence? Or, maybe, has the economy just adjusted to assume that there will be two people earning per household, rather than one? It's not that people are hyper-spending, caitlyn, a two-check household is now needed to have the same basic living standard that my uncle had in 1968 with one check. You'll find this out when you have actually been out there a few years.

Did feminism and its attendant imparative (at least early in the movement) for women to get out there and be financially independant of their husbands cause this? As with most things in economics, it can't be proven, and so is subject to the interpretation of the person doing the analysis. Milton Friedman once said that he was sure that monitary policy had an effect on the economy, even though he could not scientifically show causation. His answer was that it's effect just had a "long and variable lag". A laughable assertion, except that we're talking about a Nobel laureate economist making it.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 1/2/2007 4:22:04 PM >

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/2/2007 4:34:25 PM

caitlyn

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Your cops are underpayed.

A Houston cop makes about the same, and 130K will buy you a pretty good house in this area. Car prices aren't apples to apples. Manufacturers have all those emition controls to add at the plant, which drives prices up considerable. Also, the wave today is aggressive financing as opposed to low price. Your Uncle probably payed the going rate for interest, while anyone with a steady job can get 0.9% financing today. Hell, Ford is offering me 0.0% on an F-150, and I don't even have a job.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/2/2007 4:35:40 PM

Maahsatti

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Bravo!!

I wish you well

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/2/2007 4:40:27 PM

BDSM05478

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Along those lines, has anyone here ever actually eaten something larger than themselves, that they killed? It pretty much negates the 'hunter-gatherer' argument, in my opinion.

Stephan

*Raises both hands* Me! and I liked it!

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/2/2007 5:03:03 PM

MmakeMme

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSM05478

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Along those lines, has anyone here ever actually eaten something larger than themselves, that they killed? It pretty much negates the 'hunter-gatherer' argument, in my opinion.

Stephan

*Raises both hands* Me! and I liked it!

I haven't even killed anything smaller than I (unless you include the various scary / stinging/ biting bugs that scare me too much to attempt to capture and rlease, and that one squirrel I ran over on June 15, 1997 (and yes I remember that date because it was ~quite~ traumatic)) and I think if I were left to my own devices (as in having to kill my own food) I would be forced to become a vegetarian or find someone who could kill, skin, and degut edible mammals for me.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/2/2007 6:04:44 PM

Stephann

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Just for the record, the largest animal I've had the opportunity to clean, gut, and eat was a four pound fish. The turkey and chicken I grill are already headless and featherless, so they don't count - though I wouldn't think twice to make an animall just as headless and skinless, if there weren't any butchers to do it for me.

Stephan

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 7:55:53 AM

Rapture

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First, I would say go and read the thread about how to address a Man, especially one who in fact has lived, and continues to breath this life otherwise known as Gor......

OR perhaps another venue would be in order for you comments?

Trust me when I say, been there done that, and certainly have many t-shirts.

Rapture

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ORIGINAL: angharad

Greetings Rapture

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 8:01:46 AM

Rapture

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What I find interesting sometimes from these forums is that people sometimes think D/s or bdsm was "here first". Well, maybe the books written by this author or that author were here first and this is how the time line was established.......

Religion is a manifistation to say explain certain things that people of olde just did not understand. "Must of been divine...intervention."....

What it was though was a person who took the initiative and found something within themselves and brought it to bare, bear, (however you want to spell it), and impressed tons of people (either in a good or bad way).

Believe, and harness within, and you will find you are capable of much "diviness".

Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: nephandi

That is true Master there is so many things in the bible that suports a D/s lifestyle, there is the reason why there is whole D/s groupings and philosphies based on religious Master/slve reltionships.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 8:11:51 AM

Rapture

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Ideas are just that ideas. However, that does not make the idea applicable nor practical.

Take a closer look at what we call civilization, or society, take a real close look.

What was it Saturday last, I was on a train here in San Francisco, and the train was full of people. A person with a motorized wheel chair boarded the train. This person displaced 7 people and crammed them further into the train so that he may ride. Could he of waited for a less crowded train? Sure, and some have.... Could he not of allowed himself to become 300 + lbs so that he would not need a motorized wheel share to move around? He could of done this too...

Do not miscontrue my comments for these are just observations.

The above equality? No. Surely it is though making an accomodation. That is what the law does, it does not make equality nor magically bestow the same-it makes accomodation based upon a set of 'facts' or 'circumstances'.

Society/Civilivation has said that the female is equal to that of the Male or Men. ... Ever really figure out why our 'society' is so screwy? Look at the roles these days, they go sidewise, diagnole, and upside down. People are taught one thing but what is natural is yet another.

......something to ponder.

Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

Yes, the number of women who left the home to find quote "equal job oportunity" and "equal pay". Just to name one example. Women became more discontent to be the House Wife/Mother and it spread like wild fire. The mentality was,Well, if those woman are doing it, I want to as well. Magazines started booming forth that were women based with loads of notions and idea's to further this discontentment and thats not an opinion, those are facts.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 8:19:40 AM

Rapture

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Larger? and size has something to do with that?
On October 12, 2006, at approximately 9:00pm while minding my own business talking on my cell phone a short squirt attempted do knife me. I kid you not. I evaded the attacker, which was approximately 5'4" 150/180 pounds.... (I'm 6'3" 230lbs). Needless to say, he did try for seconds but didnt want to do a frontal assault. His surprise attack failed..... Yes.. I survived yes there was a police report....

One of the officer's asked me (litterally), "Why didn't you call us?" I looked at the officer, and said, "I was to busy staying alive." The officer then give me one of those nods that is realized when you ask a stupid question.

.....

Size? Larger? Perhaps a reevulation of things is in order?

Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSM05478

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stephann

Along those lines, has anyone here ever actually eaten something larger than themselves, that they killed? It pretty much negates the 'hunter-gatherer' argument, in my opinion.

Stephan

*Raises both hands* Me! and I liked it!

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 8:38:46 AM

nephandi

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Master D/s simply means Dominance and submission, even Gorean slavery is D/s, any relationship where one person submits to another is D/s. As for the exact history of D/s the way we think of it today, i dont know, but i would suspect pepole did this a long, long time ago.

i am npt a member or organsied religion. i am however religous, i am a chaos magician witch means i belive the natrual state of the Universe is absolute Chaos and the only truths in that mayhem is what we create for ourself, it also means i am ecclectic, fluttering from one religon to the next as need arises. i have had religions experiences, seen and felt things, not just explenations for things around me, but felt things whit all my being. it is hard to explain Master, but for me, the Devine is real. However i do belive mutch organsied religion have been corupted by power.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 9:34:11 AM

Maahsatti

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Gor is not D/s....D/s stands for Dominant/submissive, yes. While a slave is of course submissive, she is far more then just.submissives still have rights, slaves do not and the Gorean lifestyle has no submissives, per se. I suppose the closest you could even get to a submissive in the true sense in Gor would be a Free Woman, but even they differ.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 10:23:38 AM

nephandi

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No Mistress the whole of the Gorean lifestyle is not D/s, it have alot more in it and is not all about the slaves, but respectfully the slave part is, D/s stands for Dominance and submission, the slaves do submit, do not mean they are submissives, but they do submit. Just as there is other lifestyle whit Master/slave elements, the slavery there is just as deep and the slaves is just as mutch slaves as the Gorean ones is, but that is also called D/s.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 11:51:21 AM

Stephann

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Rapture,

Actually, I was touching on how most people today wouldn't know how to slaughter a cow, sheep, goat, or pig - essentially common livestock. It seems a silly issue, but if the civilization we have come to rely on so heavily 'collapsed' (say, if the US decided to default on it's debt) some of the most basic survival skills that most people possessed even 100 years ago would again be necessary. Obviously, if we're hungry enough, we'd learn how, quickly.

I certainly hope you didn't attempt to eat your attacker....erm....yes.

Regards,

Stephan

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/3/2007 1:58:30 PM

nephandi

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We would learn again as you say Master. In a Norweegian saying it says, Need teatch naked women to spin.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/4/2007 8:05:04 AM

dommalemn

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The Trouble would not be the killing of the livestock. It would be the inialation of the livestock. People from the city think that food comes from the grocery store. They don't realize that a pig takes 3 months three weeks and three days to have their pigs from being breed and then it takes an other 6 to 8 months to get it to a size to get the most meat. If there were to be a colapes the city people would wipe out the food chain in a moth or so.

I raise hogs so I have killed and eatten hog , deer , chickens. Yes it is an art that is about lost.

And to prove that back in the 1980's a guy from the city came into the contry deer (small brown about the size of a big dog) hunting. He whent out into the woods and shot himself a deer(the biggest deer he ever seen). he was so proud of his deer ( black and white spotted, also knowen as a holsten cow or a milk cow). The guy from the city was very imbarassed when he tried to regestor his deer.The farmer was not at all amused by this. The guy then told the farmer that he would pay for the cow seeing it was meat. The farmer lost one of the cows that prodused supply of about 4 galons of malk and the guy form the city just seen the meat from the cow.
now that has gotten us way off topic.
D/s has been in realigen and in the sosiety for a very long time. It was not that much that women in geneal wanted all the changes that were pushed upoun them. In the 1940's when we were at war there was a redused work force do to the men in the war. when the war was over and the men came back there were more employees than there were jobs. The wages dropped and the employers had more control of the employees. As the women went back to the homes the tide started to turn for the employers. Not to say that all of the changes were good or bad. But they needed to keep the women in the work force or there were not as many empolyees as there were jobs and the wages would have to go up to get and keep good employees. So then to get the things going all it toke was a employer to say that the reason behind the women going back was not their choice but the males keeping the women seperated and as a lowwer class than them.
Then all they did was sit back and let some extramist push this to where is is today. And even though the women that started the women are better than men, and women don't need men to be happy have changed there tune and are now married there are others that are pushing for the same thing and don't know it dosen't work.
There are some thought that you can caonsider.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/4/2007 8:18:26 AM

nephandi

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Ofcourse a woman dont need a man to be happy Master, just as a man dont need a woman to be happy. But usualy they will find more happyness toegether than apart and they were made to be together. But ofcourse the dynamic between them that will bring most joy will warry whit the pepole involved`s personality, or at least that is how i see it.

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RE: Religeon and Gor - 1/4/2007 9:22:40 AM

angharad