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conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ?


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conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 4:11:09 PM   
leahh


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		"although a Gorean Master may not always be right , He is never wrong"if a Master tells you it is 11am then tells you it is 1pm do you say yes Master to both? or do you say "no Master you told me it is one time you can't change Your mind".

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 4:42:22 PM   
Solinear


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: leahh

"although a Gorean Master may not always be right , He is never wrong"if a Master tells you it is 11am then tells you it is 1pm do you say yes Master to both? or do you say "no Master you told me it is one time you can't change Your mind".


I'd recommend that you simply agree, unless you want to be 'corrected'.  If he says that it is 11am, then it is 11am, if he says 5 minutes later that it is 1pm, then it is now 1pm.  It was 11am when he said it was and it is 1pm when he says it is 1pm. 

It's about submission and acceptance, not about what time his clock says that it is.  Another man may disagree and they may discuss it (likely in a friendly manner), and that man may tell you that it is 3pm.... if your master then asks you what time it is, you should probably tell him either 1pm or, better yet, something along the lines of the fact that your Master said that it was 1pm and the other master (though he is not your Master) said that it was 3pm and that you are not wise enough to determine what time it is for you... though that may be too clever and your Master may not appreciate it.  Hopefully your relationship with your Master will have allowed you to realize that either He is always right, no matter what anyone else says or whether you are expected to accept what the last master said, whether it is Him or another master, as you are not allowed to correct any man.

If you are new to this lifestyle, this may seem frustrating, but it would be better for you to simply accept His will and release yourself from the burden of decision making.

(in reply to leahh)
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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 4:52:26 PM   
leahh


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		Master, thank You for Your interesting reply, leahh will offer her view as more opinions are posted ..

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 4:58:02 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		There's certainly a few ways to go about this.  The most important would be precedent.

I've pulled this on gretchen before, but only once.  It was to illustrate the point that she can be punished, whether she liked it or not.

Outside of that specific type of situation, she knows I'm more interested in her actual opinion on the issue, than I am in being right.  She does me a much greater service, in pointing out my mistakes than regurgitating whatever I happen to spew. 

That's how I prefer she behave.  In doing so, she is still complying with my wishes.

Stephan


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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 5:43:40 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		It is never a slave's place to point out a Master is wrong in most situations. Of course if I said I was walking on solid ground and my slave knew a pit was in front of me, she has orders to not only tell me about the pit but to do what she must to keep me from falling into it. Your quote is correct from the view of a slave only.

If I told my slave to squeeze water from a rock, she had better start squeezing as hard as she can, rather than tell me that there is no way to squeeze water from a rock. It has nothing to do with being right or wrong, it has to do with trust and obedience.

Orion

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 5:45:06 PM   
Solinear


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		Stephann makes an excellent point, that Gorean (and obviously non-Gorean) masters have the option to demand different levels of submission from their slaves, though that may change at any point in time.  I was simply pointing out the standard and possibly a more extreme view of Gorean master/slave interaction.  Of course, when you're entering into any relationship, sometimes you will find that the safest is the best, though pushing the limits to find out what your Master truly wants, is always good to do, though you will be punished if you go too far, so you must accept the risk on whether pushing in one way will be pushing too far.

< Message edited by Solinear -- 1/10/2007 5:47:50 PM >

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 5:48:26 PM   
leahh


Posts: 48
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline 		~smiles watching the replies come in , dying to make my post but waiting on the advise of a Master~
thank You Master's leahh is taking all opinions to heart

< Message edited by leahh -- 1/10/2007 5:49:06 PM >

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 6:26:11 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Greettings leahh,

First off welcome to the boards.  To answer your hypothetical it would also depend on the context in which the man contradicted himself.  I agree that it is not the position of a slave to argue either way, but consistancy is also a factor that can and will affect trust.  So your master was to say it was 1'oclock and then a few minutes later state that it was 3'oclock both should be met with a simple 'yes master'.  In terms of can a Gorean Master be wrong? Yes, but it is not a slave's position to judge.  We all make mistakes, misspeak, or are misunderstood, it is during these times the character is shown as to wether or not we correct those errors. So to answer your question again... Yes a Gorean master can be wrong.

I wish you well,
Thadius

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 7:02:19 PM   
wolffeathers


Posts: 315
Joined: 8/6/2005
From: Clearwater
Status: offline 		If I say it's 1 pm, and bina knows it's 3pm, then she damn well better tell me it's 3pm.  Just incase I messed up, and we have somewhere to be.    

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 7:24:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 37484
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		A stoppped clock is right twice a day.....I think that should about cover the entire notion.

Really think about it, and I am sure you will conclude correctly.

Here's a hint, if it ain't it probably soon will be.

Hup


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(in reply to wolffeathers)
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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 7:30:00 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Tal Wolf,
quote:

ORIGINAL: wolffeathers

If I say it's 1 pm, and bina knows it's 3pm, then she damn well better tell me it's 3pm.  Just incase I messed up, and we have somewhere to be.    


I am sure bina would hint at it the same way my jess would "Master, may I set the clocks to reflect the correct time then' or some other nudge especially if have to be someplace...

I wish you well,
Thadius

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 8:01:17 PM   
ardelle


Posts: 63
Status: offline 		greetings
 
i asked that once and was told 'you have no reason to question whether or not Master is right or wrong'
 
~smiles~

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i wish you well

josie

(in reply to leahh)
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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 8:48:33 PM   
justinasamerk


Posts: 153
Joined: 8/1/2006
Status: offline 		There is a wonderful scene in  Shakespears "Taming of the Shrew" where he points up to the (sun)..."moon" and says "I say itis the moon that shines so bright" where she  replys "I know it is the sun that shines so bright"...that touch of insolence as she just  corrected him....yet she comes to realize by saying...





Forward, I pray, since we have come so far,


And be it moon, or sun, or what you please.


An if you please to call it a rush candle,



Henceforth I vow it shall be so for me.









PETRUCHIO


I say it is the moon.








KATHERINE


I know it is the moon.








PETRUCHIO



Nay, then you lie. It is the blessèd sun.

even in this little interlude we can say that Petrchio is wrong but Katherine  didn't quite say he was, she came to terms with his will, and accepted his beliefs.
A Gorean  man is never wrong, neither is he perfect, as a slave its the girls job to betotally pleasing, and if she can be smart enough to show her Master the logic behind something that might be "wrong" even better...but in this instance of time...Yes Master, 11 and 1 .....by then you made him aware of the two times, and hopefully he can clarify  the schedule.....
They  may never be wrong..but they do make mistakes......and a  true Gorean man would own up  to his errors....



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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 8:55:01 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'd buy him a watch.

(in reply to leahh)
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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 9:30:11 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10296
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Or as bartenders are wont to say, "It's 5 o'clock somewhere".

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So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/10/2007 9:44:36 PM   
Solinear


Posts: 283
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Tal Wolf,
quote:

ORIGINAL: wolffeathers

If I say it's 1 pm, and bina knows it's 3pm, then she damn well better tell me it's 3pm.  Just incase I messed up, and we have somewhere to be.    


I am sure bina would hint at it the same way my jess would "Master, may I set the clocks to reflect the correct time then' or some other nudge especially if have to be someplace...

I wish you well,
Thadius


Yeah, this one got a good laugh out of me :)

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/11/2007 1:19:27 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings leahh,
  All I can say is. Trust in your Master, rely on him, to know and do what is right. I feel, that is what it is all about, and a Master may choose to test his slave in such a mannor, to teach her trust and reliability.Your Master should be your Sun and Moon, the very air you breathe. Trust in him to light your days, and comfort your nights and to sustain your very life in all aspects.I also say this in general to all owned slaves, not just to you dear.I hope I have not gone too far off topic...lol...I tend to ramble.

serve and be well
Mistress Maahsatti

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/11/2007 4:55:48 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		i see it like this, the Master is ofcourse never always right, he is human as well and make errors, but a Master`s word is law for his slave and she live for him not for the world so it is not her place to point out an error. Ofcourse a Master can be wrong, but to a slave`s mind he never is.

Mistress, this was a general reply to the tread and not to you so therefore i did not greet you, i hope you can forgive this. i hope you are well.

anja


< Message edited by nephandi -- 1/11/2007 4:57:20 AM >

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/11/2007 5:12:18 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Fast reply

Greetings to Free and property,

It is not about whether a Master is truly right or wrong. The quote and the lesson behind it is about a slave never questioning what a Master tells her. It is about a slave never making a judgement of right or wrong against their Master. It is about trusting the Master absolutely and never questioning that trust. It is about a slave's place, their heart, their devotion, their obedience, and the trust. If a Master wishes to sustain these though, he should not abuse them.


Orion

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RE: conversation topic ..is a Gorean Master ever wrong ? - 1/11/2007 5:53:06 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		General response ...
 
To me, a master that would do this, is showing the slave how weak he really is. I'm sure it's about absolute obedience, but who is he trying to prove it to? Certainly not the slave, who probably knows what time it is, after all. The only one he is proving anything to, is himself ... "I can mindfuck this person and get away with it!"
 
Obedience is a good thing, but would probably work best is the person doing the obeying, had supreme confidence in the rightnes of the person they are obeying. If I was that person, I wouldn't be intentionally doing things that showed myself wrong, or weak.
 
Just my opinion.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
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