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Punishment...a kajira in question.


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Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 10:45:30 AM   
anjelle


Posts: 11
Joined: 2/6/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Masters, Mistresses and all.

Before You is an'jelle. Please forgive her lack of knowledge in the "on line" aspects of Gor, as she is new there, but not to the world, itself.  In loving service she writes these words:

i had wondered on different views of "punishment".  Having been called "kajira" for quite some time, now...my Master is very pleased in me, and though pride is not a vice we are allowed to have, i call myself proud of Him.  Serving Him in every aspect that a woman can for a Man, He's valued me among any "red silk" He's known.  So in this, lies my questions.

Punishment.

Allow me to start where the questions started...not very long ago...i had what any woman would call a "bad day."  A "single" mother of two toddlers.  Meaning, i live alone, in the house that He provides, and comes to as He so chooses.  On this day He was not with me.  Days like this are taken advantage of by serious house cleaning while the children are at school and day care, shopping and other menial chores.  Things that need to be done while my attention need not be on His needs.  Anyway, ~waves her hand, putting herself back on track~ after a day of sniffly noses, "MINE!", potty training and dinner...my Master graces the doorstep.  Greeting Him properly, and seeing that He is taken care of, shower prepared and other such things...after which, i am able to put my children to bed.  Exhausted...flat out spent, i was that night.

He lays in bed, and after begging leave to lay with Him, i am allowed to rest next to Him...no place else in the world would i have rather been on that night, or any other.  Closing my eyes, and nearly drifting off...I hear, "Please Me."

There...that was my quandry...the slave in me immediately springs to nadu to judge His temperment.  The tired mother and woman of me, which i'd like to kick in the chin, sighed tiredly under sagging eyes as i knelt there next to Him.

...a few minutes later...

As i lay there on the floor...at the foot of the bed...with no blanket for warmth or pillows to rest my weary head on, i reflect.  He truely is a marvel of a Man...very truely "my Master" as this is the  worst punishment i could imagine.  Instead of a whip, which i may have begged for...or a sharp stinging slap across my cheek...i lay here...cold and alone...squirming now, as my inner fires react to the plunging fingers that pulled me within inches of His angered face before i was sent from His sight.

So, therein lies the question...do all Masters punish as such?  It is, indeed, a true slaves only desire to be close and pleasing to her Master.  Perhaps, in training, beating and deprivation of food and such could be effective.  But this slave, being owned heart, body and soul, loves, above all else the warmth and pleased happiness of her Master.  Taking that away...would end me...and He knows it. ~smiles~

In loving service,
an'jelle {DPK}

< Message edited by anjelle -- 2/7/2007 11:02:37 AM >

_____________________________

"...because He is Master and i am slave."
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 10:51:47 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		greetings

this one is a bit confused by what you mean about online aspect---
as in questioning in a forum or playing a role play game?
but here is this ones take from 'real' life
The Free may punish their property as they see fit and
it it is not up to a girl to question a Master punishment from others
for what one Man does another may not.
Since your Master knows that is what hurts you most then it is a lesson a girl will remember.

wishing you well




_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to anjelle)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 10:56:14 AM   
anjelle


Posts: 11
Joined: 2/6/2007
Status: offline 		Please forgive.

By "on line aspect" i mean the proper typing and such, not so much role playing as my Master and i do not role play our relationship...it is very real. i'm sorry for not clarifying.

_____________________________

"...because He is Master and i am slave."

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 11:00:00 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		greetings anjelle,

thanks for clarifying
and she can only imagine getting pushed from Master side
as the worst thing possible

wishing you well

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to anjelle)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 11:20:23 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings anjelle,

I found the "He's valued me among any "red silk" He's known." to be very telling; but anyways...

I believe in using things that will teach a lesson or reenforce the proper behavior. For example, jess has learned that being late or keeping me waiting is not acceptable.  For every 5 minutes she makes me wait, she spends 20 minutes on her knees in silence.  Of course there are some exceptions to this, based on circumstances (a phone call in advance, traffic accident, she died).

There are times when using punishments that play on her emotions may be neccessary, but that is on the very rare occassion.  Most of us know that the worst thing that can happen to a girl, is no attention at all.  I think the one that gets to jess besides that one is when I head to the kitchen and begin making my own meal without a word.

I wish you well,
Thadius

P.S. Welcome to the boards. Are you sure you haven't been involved in an 'RP Gor' venue in the past?  Not that there is anything wrong with it.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to anjelle)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 11:30:45 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		The whole thing seems illogical to me. Maybe even the proverbial mind-fuck.
 
If you're tired, what you need is rest. If you're rested, you will please him much more effectively. You will get very little rest, on a cold floor with no pillow.
 
Seeing the slave as property, like a car for instance ... if the car needs gas to make it run, would parking it in the cold when the car is empty, make the car run better? To me, this is like punishing your car, when it's our of gas.

(in reply to Thadius)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 11:45:43 AM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		caitlyn,

My reading of the original post gave the impression that she was punished more for the sigh.  If I am incorrect in this, I am sure it will be clarified.

Should rules be allowed to be broken, without punishment? No, it sends a message that is conflicting to a girl.  Should a slave be in a position to dictate when and if she will please her owner? Never.  Should the day she had prior to his coming home be considered in his decisions as to how she will be used that night? Possibly, but it not neccessary.  Would she have been more pleasing if better rested? Probably, but she wasn't better rested, and he wished to use her then.  

You comparing a car to a slave in this context is moot, as the car will not sigh as it is put out in the cold with an almost empty tank of gas.  Besides, a responsible owner would be putting more gas in the car the next day.

Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 11:46:39 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		greetings girls,

it was explained very recently that a Master may have a reason for doing what he does
and its not up to the slave to second guess

wishng you well

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 2/7/2007 11:47:58 AM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 11:52:47 AM   
anjelle


Posts: 11
Joined: 2/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I found the "He's valued me among any "red silk" He's known." to be very telling; but anyways...



i've chosen my words poorly and made my Master seem fickle.  He won't be happy when He reads this.

Please, Master Thadius, do not think poorly of the Man this one worships.

Also, to Your inquiry about my having been involved in "online Gor":
    I have role-played...quite avidly, in some aspects.  But, i think, not in the terms of "online Gor".  my RP experiences have been in the form of MMORPGs, where RPing was in the form of spellcasters and "knights in shining armour".

_____________________________

"...because He is Master and i am slave."

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 11:55:32 AM   
anjelle


Posts: 11
Joined: 2/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

caitlyn,

My reading of the original post gave the impression that she was punished more for the sigh.  If I am incorrect in this, I am sure it will be clarified.



Yes, Master Thadius.  I was sent from Him because of my outward showing of tiredness...not for BEING tired.  Perhaps my eyes may have been tired...but i should NOT have sighed...and...it won't happen again.

Lesson learned.

_____________________________

"...because He is Master and i am slave."

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 11:59:01 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		And yet ... she clearly is second guessing.
 
I would be also, and if I didn't show it outwardly, I would be lying to the one that owned me. I will admit that this one point, troubles me more than any aspect of Gorean slavery. I'm sure a master would want someone that is honest, but at the same time, might want to enforce outward opinion in a way that is close to dishonest. There is a spectrum in this relationship, that doesn't seem easily justified.
 
The only think I can come up with, is that many claim Gorean, but few really are ... both free and slave.
 
DISCLAIMER: This whole response (mine) may be complete bullshit ... trust me, I don't have an answer at all. 

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:00:10 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		I haven't made any decision on the man, I can't, I haven't met him.

The only reason I brought up the "red silk" thing, is because the only place I have heard it used is online, at least in that context.  No apology neccesary, was just looking for clarification.  You have done that...

I wish you well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:00:58 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anjelle
Yes, Master Thadius.  I was sent from Him because of my outward showing of tiredness...not for BEING tired.  Perhaps my eyes may have been tired...but i should NOT have sighed...and...it won't happen again.

Lesson learned.


But, you were tired. To me, you were being honest. What lesson did you learn, to lie next time?
 
(please don't take that as an offensive comment ... it's not meant to be) 

(in reply to anjelle)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:05:34 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		greetings caitlyn,

it is part of human nature unfortunately, this one can see it easily because she just went through it for a different reason and it has changed some things about her that she didnt realize were there already and she had her eyes opened

and you are right it is part of being Gorean and

Master Omega wishes for honesty in all she does but it is how the honesty is delivered that is important.

there is no not tonight dear i have a headache manipulations that vanilla wives or g/f do or subs that can say no......

a girl can always try to beg out appropriately...if he says no , she does what Master wants..
it all comes down to obey or leave or stay find peace in pleasing because this is what you need in order to be happy

wishng you well


< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 2/7/2007 12:09:12 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:05:51 PM   
anjelle


Posts: 11
Joined: 2/6/2007
Status: offline 		i have learned that, beyond me...beyond my tiredness...He is first...

Not really a lesson learned, as these things i've always known.  Hence the punishment.

i will not lie to Him, only suck it up and do as i'm told.  As i should.

"Gor is not fair, Gor is not just.  It doesn't have to be, for it is Gor."


In loving service,
an'jelle {DPK}

_____________________________

"...because He is Master and i am slave."

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:13:03 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Actually the sigh in that situation, was more of an outward sign of "I don't wanna" just as rolling ones eyes would be.  The man if he had any perception ( I assume he does) already knows that the girl is tired, I can only speculate as to what would have transpired if there had been no sigh.  Guessing though, I would say that a lack of pillow and blanket, probably would not have been on the menu. 

caitlyn, there is no dishonesty in a girl obeying immediately.  She is doing what she is told.  She is being honest to the relationship in which she has entered.  As to conveying how one feels, thinks, or perceives a task given, there is a time and place for it... and normally prior to "Yes Master" is not the place that it belongs... Then again, "Yes Master, but........" doesn't seem to work all that well either.  The point is that either a slave trusts the man that she belongs to or not.  If she doesn't trust him, then why is she in the collar.

Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:13:50 PM   
slavekara


Posts: 76
Joined: 12/13/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings All,

this girl thinks that a slaves place is with her Owner, whether she is tired or not she should be willing to please. one may make mistakes and learn from them, and it is the Owners decision as to when to let His slave sleep.

The whole rule of slavery, as this girl see's it, is to please her Master no matter how she feels.

this girl has often startedto go to sleep way before Master is ready to sleep and this girl will ask Him if he will wake her up if he wishes to be pleased. He has always answered yes and this girl then feel's better by His reassurance.

Yes by all means being honest, but maybe her Master saw that she was tired but thought that she could last a few more moments while she pleasured Him, or was testing her to voice her thoughts on being tired.

slave kara (A)

< Message edited by slavekara -- 2/7/2007 12:16:37 PM >

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:44:09 PM   
Jahnaca


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		Hello caitlyn

The reality of the Gorean master slave dynamic is very one sided. All in favor of the owner.  This means he can demand just about anything of his property devoid of what is in her best interest.  Yes, this is a selfish concept, but it is the harsh reality that few ponder seriously before leaping in.  Quite literally and frankly the slave litany of he is master I am slave, he commands and I obey is what it is all about.  It doesn’t allow for, but I am tired, sick or I don’t want to, nor does it allow for subjective interpretations of attitude from the slave.  She obeys, that is it.  He can disipline for anything or nothing.

Actual application of the above concept varies between man to man.  Just because he can, doesn’t mean he will.  That aspect is up to him to define and apply.  He may, if it pleases him to do so, say please me, then judge the reaction and send her to bed.  He may just send her to bed, he may in fact demand an extremely long session of pleasure.  What ever he demands and dictates at that moment she must obey.  Non are right wrong or indifferent.  The concept a “Gorean man” will/has to do is bogus.  A Gorean man doesn’t have to do a darn thing, he chooses to.  (Ummm yes others may or may not judge him based on all of this.)

Logically though the better care you take of your property the better value you will get out of it.  Again it is at the benevolence of the man to dictate the type of care (if at all) she will receive.  As harsh as this all sounds, the slave still has one option, leaving!  Or, just not entering into a master slave relationship with that given man to begin with if she has serious doubts about his style of ownership.

Jahna

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Mass-produced human beings are attractive only to those who expect to be their benevolent mass producers. John Norman

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:56:48 PM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anjelle

only suck it up and do as i'm told.  As i should.



Ok I would of received an ass kicking for the sigh but if I then exhibited this type of attitude and outlook on his making use of me sexually, the closest I would come to anything sexual with him again would be making breakfast for the woman who was in his bed the night before.. because it wouldn't be me.

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

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RE: Punishment...a kajira in question. - 2/7/2007 12:58:38 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Afternoon Jahna,

Are you saying that I am selfish?

Heck, I can admit that, I think I am very important when it comes to me being pleased. That reminds me of the old joke: " What do you tell a woman with 2 black eyes?" ....... Nothing she has already been told twice. (I am joking here, but am sure I will still get the cries about abuse, so to answer that now: Piss off). or the other one "How do you know if a woman has been pleased sexually?... Who cares." again a joke.

I wish you well,
Thadius

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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