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RE: Mentoring - 2/17/2007 4:41:03 PM   
sumlihana


Posts: 37
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Frank Ar,

Thank you for correcting my mistakes. It will not happen again and thanks you for looking out for her as well. This will not happen again

warm wishes,
sumli



_____________________________

The north's untamed savage.....and story teller..

(in reply to FrankAr)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Mentoring - 2/17/2007 4:48:35 PM   
FrankAr


Posts: 602
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings sumlihana,

Now that is heaps better, good on you for correcting yourself.

Be well.

Frank Ar.


< Message edited by FrankAr -- 2/17/2007 4:49:14 PM >

(in reply to sumlihana)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Mentoring - 2/17/2007 7:14:36 PM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		"Master, I have to ask if you didn't find that Tarl was mentored throughout the books by various other men, beginning with his own father than then by Torm and it continued throughout the series?"
 
amber,


Tarl was trained in many things. This was not to mention his own abilities falling into place to really make him most excellent in what he did. Most people on Gor feared him because of this his abilities. However, he himself, had to come to the manifestiations within himself and from no other to be or become truly Gorean. Noone could do this for him. No training or mentoring could do these things for him. He on his own became Gor or should I say shed what he was previously taught by Society on Earth.  He found what he was taught on Earth in the 'civilized world' was just false.

Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: amberKuldan

Greetings Master Rapture,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
Master, I have to ask if you didn't find that Tarl was mentored throughout the books by various other men, beginning with his own father than then by Torm and it continued throughout the series?
 
While I believe that nature and instinct teaches us a great deal, I also believe that we learn from one another, regardless of whether or not we are men or women, Master.  I'd consider this a type of mentoring and I'd not consider it something juvenile or demeaning in any way. 
 
Respectfully,

Well wishes,
 
amber
 



< Message edited by Rapture -- 2/17/2007 7:16:29 PM >

(in reply to amberKuldan)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Mentoring - 2/18/2007 8:55:11 AM   
amberKuldan


Posts: 66
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Rapture,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings slaves,
 
Thank you for your reply and taking the time to read my words, Master.
 
While I agree that no amount of teaching or mentoring can make someone Gorean, I do think that teaching and mentoring and discussing elements of what Goreans generally believe in and their responses to specific things can help a person to better understand the complexities of what it means to be Gorean and to live as such. 
 
I think that without these sorts of teachings and hopefully the understanding that follows that the full manifestation of "becoming Gorean" is not likely to happen. Would you perhaps agree with that, Master?
 
If I understand correctly after years of being in the company of Goreans, being Gorean is simply what one is, not necessarily how one behaves, yet the latter will almost always follow the former.  Yet, not all realize that they are Gorean, Master. Not all realize what this thing inside of them is, and mentoring can sometimes shed enough light to offer understanding. If understanding is achieved then also manifestation is likely to be the result.
 
So while Tarl did have to struggle to put all of his learnings and experiences together in order to understand and actually *be* Gorean, Master, wouldn't it be the same for most anyone? He didn't arrive upon Gor and simply figure it all out for himself.  He had guidance and role-models and he witnessed enough to begin to truly contemplate and weigh these things before he realized that these were indeed things he valued and believed in. Hence, the manifestation we see occurring in the novels as Tarl begins to realize that he is Gorean.
 
I hope that I have understood your words correctly, Master.  That being that one cannot be taught or mentored in how to be Gorean, that comes from within.  However, I'd still dare say that people can be taught and mentored in Gorean ways which might help them find enlightment enough to discover as to whether or not they are Gorean.
 
Respectfully,
With well wishes,
 
amber
 

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Mentoring - 2/18/2007 10:10:07 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		amber,

"While I agree that no amount of teaching or mentoring can make someone Gorean, I do think that teaching and mentoring and discussing elements of what Goreans generally believe in and their responses to specific things can help a person to better understand the complexities of what it means to be Gorean and to live as such. "
 
Sure, everyone can discuss practically anything, they can also teach someone to do "x", but discussing is exactly that discussing and nothing more.

This stuff really is not all that complex, however the same is made out to be complex. Most things in nature are 1) hardly in a straight line, and 2) so simple that even the most brillant of minds cannot unravel its' respective mysterious but found, discovered, or otherwise manifested by mere chance. To coin the verbage, "If you think you can't or if you can- your right".....

 
"I think that without these sorts of teachings and hopefully the understanding that follows that the full manifestation of "becoming Gorean" is not likely to happen. Would you perhaps agree with that, Master?"

In my various travels I have seen, experienced, and otherwise witnessed persons who would never say they are Gor, but surely fit in quite nicely if they so wished to use that label. Of these persons they never read one of the books, but surely have the 'mannerisms'. I am not saying these types of discussions are worthless but sometimes you get the 'blind' leading the 'blind' as well. As with the erroneous websites out there and with some of hog wash that are posted on these various forums it is easy to be misinformed and therefore lead astray. These forums usually turn into a 'group think' which at that point are not all to productive- Ad Hominens usually take over.

"If I understand correctly after years of being in the company of Goreans, being Gorean is simply what one is, not necessarily how one behaves, yet the latter will almost always follow the former. "
 
Not necessarily. I have known a few people who to this date are as blind as they were several 5+ 10+ years ago.
 
"Yet, not all realize that they are Gorean, Master. Not all realize what this thing inside of them is, and mentoring can sometimes shed enough light to offer understanding. If understanding is achieved then also manifestation is likely to be the result. "
 
Their lack is not my problem nor yours (or anyone's). If they really want to know they seek. Yet sometimes if you seek to hard you tend to miss a few things on the way. The sheep will be sheep and the wolves are their to dine.

 
"So while Tarl did have to struggle to put all of his learnings and experiences together in order to understand and actually *be* Gorean, Master, wouldn't it be the same for most anyone?"
 
This would assume you have to have some vast experience. Perhaps, consider he just unlearned what he was taught.
 
He didn't arrive upon Gor and simply figure it all out for himself.  He had guidance and role-models and he witnessed enough to begin to truly contemplate and weigh these things before he realized that these were indeed things he valued and believed in. Hence, the manifestation we see occurring in the novels as Tarl begins to realize that he is Gorean. "
 
I did not get the impression he was one for role models. However, he did in fact, come to realize on his own.

 
"I hope that I have understood your words correctly, Master.  That being that one cannot be taught or mentored in how to be Gorean, that comes from within.  However, I'd still dare say that people can be taught and mentored in Gorean ways which might help them find enlightment enough to discover as to whether or not they are Gorean."

Anyone can be taught a serve, or how to use a sword, (then would you even use it is the question) or just puff out the chest if 'x' occurs. Protocals are nice and clean to say "I'm Gorean". Yet, what I have found and yes offline, you dont need to even teach protocals to a girl for her to be a slave. Actually, some of the best I have seen knew nothing in how to even do a serve, yet they surely were in fact slave. This was not due to having a role-model, mentor, or anything in the like kind, but again the sculpture was in fact in the bare rock (just needed some refining). This should tell you something.

Rapture

(in reply to amberKuldan)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Mentoring - 2/18/2007 3:54:40 PM   
amberKuldan


Posts: 66
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Rapture,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
Thank you again, Master Rapture, for taking the time to read my words and to reply to them. 
 
I do understand that one not need to have learned all of the protocols to be Gorean, Master, and agree with much of what you are saying, yet I remain unconvinced that a free person of Earth without influence of some kind, be it guidance or mentoring, discussion or a role-model will succeed in fulfilling the role on Earth of being "Gorean."
 
It could be perhaps because amber has encountered so few Goreans that she feels that there must be something more to it.
 
Respectfully,
With well wishes,
 
amber



(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Mentoring - 2/18/2007 4:46:05 PM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		amber,
 
"I do understand that one not need to have learned all of the protocols to be Gorean, Master, and agree with much of what you are saying, yet I remain unconvinced that a free person of Earth without influence of some kind, be it guidance or mentoring, discussion or a role-model will succeed in fulfilling the role on Earth of being "Gorean.""
 
...and I was attempting to convince you of something?
Then again some people are completely naturals at many things. They do these things because that is what their instinct guide them to do.

 
"It could be perhaps because amber has encountered so few Goreans that she feels that there must be something more to it."
 
...what type of Gorean? Cafeteria types or those who are beyond leaving things on their sleeve?

Here is something for you:

“But the Goreans have a saying, which came to me in the darkness, in the hall. Do not ask the stones or the trees how to live; they cannot tell you; they do not have tongues; do not ask the wise man how to live, for, if he knows, he will know he cannot tell you; if you would learn how to live do not ask the question; its answer is not in the question but in the answer, which is not in words; not ask how to live, but, instead, proceed to do so.’”
Pg 9, Marauders of Gor.
 
And:
 
- All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
-- Arthur Schopenh


Also:

Perhaps your doubt is the real issue... ?

Rapture

 

(in reply to amberKuldan)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Mentoring - 2/18/2007 5:36:32 PM   
amberKuldan


Posts: 66
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Rapture,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings slaves,

I thank you once again for your patience and the time taken to read my words and reply, Master Rapture.

I also beg your mercy and genuinely apologize if my words expressed that I felt you had been trying to convince me of anything.  I read and then turn things around in my own mind trying to find new ways of looking at things and hopefully learning something from them, Master.  I found that after doing such that I had not really changed my view entirely.

There is no doubt in my mind, however, Master when it comes to things and persons Gorean.  I think instead it is my idealism Master, and my willingness to believe in the possibility of things that others may not, which could be the problem, though I don't see it as such.

Thank you for the quote, Master.  It remains one of my favorites from the books.

I hope you will not mind that I offer another one that I feel relevant to this thread:

"I suddenly realized the supreme power of the united Gorean will, not divided against itself, not weak, not crippled like the wills of Earth.  I felt a surge of power, of unprecedented, unexpected joy. I had discovered what it was to be Gorean. I had discovered what it was, truly to be male, to be a man.  I was Gorean." - Marauders of Gor

Respectfully,
With well wishes,

amber

< Message edited by amberKuldan -- 2/18/2007 5:38:44 PM >

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Mentoring - 2/18/2007 6:04:47 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		*fast reply

Tal and Greetings all,

I suppose I was lucky in the way I was brought up, my grandfather, father, uncles and the men they kept company all had at least one thing in common; they were Marines.  While some had vices, such as smoking or drinking, the other thing they had in common was they were all men of honor.  If one of them gave their word on anything you could take it to the bank without second guessing or shadow of doubt.  I continued to be lucky in the schools that I attended, many of the teachers were what I consider great role models, and a couple even became confidants. Most of these men have passed away now, but their lessons on life, love, and being a man will live on through me and the other men (boys at the time) that they came into contact with.

Although these men did not hand me any of the Gor series, (except for one teacher, but that is another story), they helped build my foundation and started me down the road to where and what I am now.  I am a Gorean.  I have read, studied, contemplated, reflected and implemented the things I have learned from the novels and other writings.  I finally realized that I had already been living by what I understand the philosophy to be.  I am far from understanding all there is to understand or all that is contained in the series, but with the help of some men that I respect emensely my understanding continues to grow.  Would I call them mentors in the traditional sense of the word? Perhaps not, because it is a mutual teaching and learning that goes on.  I believe this is true of most interactions amongst men, especially amongst men who discuss philosophy, ethos, and life.

I pray that all of you can become as lucky as I have been, and find those that will help to improve your knowledge and understanding.

I wish you well,
Thadius

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to amberKuldan)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Mentoring - 2/18/2007 7:03:34 PM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		Hello Thadius,
Thank you, this was the kind of answer I was looking for.  The answers I got were very telling...lol...
Take care of you and yours,
Y

_____________________________

If you think something is too good to be true, it probably is.

(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Mentoring - 2/19/2007 7:08:39 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		amber,

Tarl was trained by his father, Torm, and others. If you will note in the various places he traveled he sought this training of how to do this or that. As such he knew how to do many things and was feared because of his skills not because he was Gorean. There is in fact a distinct difference.

Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: amberKuldan

Greetings Master Rapture,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
Master, I have to ask if you didn't find that Tarl was mentored throughout the books by various other men, beginning with his own father than then by Torm and it continued throughout the series?
 
While I believe that nature and instinct teaches us a great deal, I also believe that we learn from one another, regardless of whether or not we are men or women, Master.  I'd consider this a type of mentoring and I'd not consider it something juvenile or demeaning in any way. 
 
Respectfully,

Well wishes,
 
amber
 


(in reply to amberKuldan)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Mentoring - 2/19/2007 7:13:14 AM   
amberKuldan


Posts: 66
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Yes Master Rapture.
 
Well wishes,
amber
 

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Mentoring - 2/19/2007 7:30:20 AM   
Ashaia


Posts: 239
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		amber,

I have seen most of your posts in pale blue, but one a few posts ago was in black. It was so much easier to read. I began posting here using my old favorite deep green. There is a wide selection of blues and I wondered if you would consider using one that was darker so it contrasted better with white backgrounds. One stubborn woman (me) who refuses to wear glasses (me) has a hard time discerning words in light blue (me)...

Please. It is just a favor I ask.
Ash

_____________________________

"A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled."--Plutarch

"Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence." Henrik Tikkanen

Edith Wharton, "If only we'd stop trying to be happy we'd have a pretty good time.

(in reply to amberKuldan)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Mentoring - 2/19/2007 11:54:56 AM   
amberKuldan


Posts: 66
Joined: 1/22/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Mistress Ashaia,
 
Not a problem at all, Mistress.
 
I hope you find this to be more pleasing.
 
Well wishes,
 
amber
 

(in reply to Ashaia)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Mentoring - 2/19/2007 12:02:08 PM   
Ashaia


Posts: 239
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		~sorry to hit on such a different topic under the original post Ygraine~

Thank you amber, it is!

Ash

_____________________________

"A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled."--Plutarch

"Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence." Henrik Tikkanen

Edith Wharton, "If only we'd stop trying to be happy we'd have a pretty good time.

(in reply to amberKuldan)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Mentoring - 2/21/2007 5:03:45 PM   
Ariston


Posts: 59
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline 		Hello Y

Leave it to a great lady to once again raise this issue.  I see that some took it in a direction that you had not intended, many of those from lack of knowing you thinking you are kajira or in need of advice on mentoring - - while in reality - I know that you have much to offer -- having known you a number of years ago when I was first discovering Gor.

Mentors are a valuable aspect of life -- not just for learning Gor ----- and here I do find myself agreeing with Rapture --- if all a mentor is - is someone who smoothes the path ahead and gives platitudes --- that is definitely not needed.  But --- and here I do differ from him -- if that one who is serving as a mentor pushes, prods, pokes, and so forth - provides a sounding block and can provide examples from past knowledge to assist a person on the journey of self-discovery -- then that is a good thing.  But --- then a mentor cannot perform the former and be a true mentor, in my opinion.

There are many folks that I have learned from over the years --- from some I learned what was NOT Gorean - from others I learned what was idiotically peripheral and from others I learned to see additional layers of the onion to peel.

I've also had mentors in sales, mentors in the military and mentors in my Christian walk.  Each of whom set the bar higher than it was previously set -- and then by example demonstrated that the bar was not so high after all.

Jon

(in reply to Ashaia)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Mentoring - 2/21/2007 8:00:54 PM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		Hello Ariston, greetings to you and yours,
Thank you for clarifying and helping me to explain.  I know I have had many such people in my life, not only in the sense of being Gorean, but as a human woman who needed to observe and learn from others.  I feel very lucky in that way and not ashamed to admit that their guidance has helped me a great deal.
I also count as mentors some of the people I have met on this board, who by their actions and words and thoughts have helped me think about ideas and have subtly changed the way I feel about many many things.
I wish you all well,and thank you to all the contributors of this thread.
Y

_____________________________

If you think something is too good to be true, it probably is.

(in reply to Ariston)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Mentoring - 2/21/2007 9:51:24 PM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Ariston,

I'm curious about something....

How were you mentored per se in Gor?


Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ariston

Hello Y

Leave it to a great lady to once again raise this issue.  I see that some took it in a direction that you had not intended, many of those from lack of knowing you thinking you are kajira or in need of advice on mentoring - - while in reality - I know that you have much to offer -- having known you a number of years ago when I was first discovering Gor.

Mentors are a valuable aspect of life -- not just for learning Gor ----- and here I do find myself agreeing with Rapture --- if all a mentor is - is someone who smoothes the path ahead and gives platitudes --- that is definitely not needed.  But --- and here I do differ from him -- if that one who is serving as a mentor pushes, prods, pokes, and so forth - provides a sounding block and can provide examples from past knowledge to assist a person on the journey of self-discovery -- then that is a good thing.  But --- then a mentor cannot perform the former and be a true mentor, in my opinion.

There are many folks that I have learned from over the years --- from some I learned what was NOT Gorean - from others I learned what was idiotically peripheral and from others I learned to see additional layers of the onion to peel.

I've also had mentors in sales, mentors in the military and mentors in my Christian walk.  Each of whom set the bar higher than it was previously set -- and then by example demonstrated that the bar was not so high after all.

Jon


< Message edited by Rapture -- 2/21/2007 9:54:58 PM >

(in reply to Ariston)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Mentoring - 3/17/2007 12:48:25 PM   
Jadga


Posts: 17
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Y
well having come to online gor when modems were a blazing 300bps--there was mentoring progrom in the realm I was in--and I am grateful for that--hopefully it made me a sane gorean type of person!!
that may be debatable--but --chuckles

I am Jadga--Just Another Damn Gorean Asshole!!!

(in reply to ygraine)
Profile   Post #: 39
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