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Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my


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Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 5:50:50 AM   
Another


Posts: 172
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		Morning Folks,

Flaming, baiting and inciting, oh my.    When I joined this board, I was impressed with the quality of posts, the great conversations, and the fact the boards didn’t seem to be used as a springboard for a personal private vendetta.  I have watched this deteriorate.   From slaves to free, doesn’t seem to matter.

I guess I can’t understand, no, actually, I do understand why there are those that enjoy the constant turmoil, constant barrage of posts.    It brings them the one thing they otherwise would not get, attention.    And I suppose it’s like a kid needing attention, any attention, negative or positive.   Years ago I called it the High Gorean Daily Drama, and sad to say, I see this board heading down that same path.  
. 
Childish behavior is NOT gender or age specific.  For those of you that wish to pick this post apart I will tell you, as a good friend of mine once told someone….

I wish you adulthood,

Liz
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 6:01:49 AM   
Sylverdawn


Posts: 1123
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear Liz:

I have been around this particular forum since there was not specific Gorean thread and I have found that the most useful tool provided by the moderators of this particular board is the ignore function.

For me I can not modifdy how others act.   I can however control myself. I do know that I have triggers, things that just make me itch to respond the way I would in life; probably with a biting comment dripping in sarcasm. I have learned over the years that the only person that gets frustrated by engaging specific people is me and I honestly dont have the time nor energy to beat my head against someone else's brick walls. I love coming here and reading the posts of those people I find informative and useful  Equally,  I love knowing that the editing function helps make my time online more enjoyable and profitable.

with respect
SD

_____________________________

“When women are depressed, they eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. It's a whole different way of thinking.” Elyane Boosler

Being a women is hard work Maya Angelou

(in reply to Another)
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RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 6:07:58 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 37481
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Oh, you know; there is really no reason to get wound up about it...

Flaming usually is fired by such vapid fuel that the work to stomp it out consumes more oxygen than is wasted by the arsonist.

Usually snoring thru the imbriglio is refreshing in and of itself. And remaining clear of the soot, there is nothing to wash off (including your soul)

Ron

 

_____________________________

Kam Fong as Chin Ho

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal. JFK



(in reply to Sylverdawn)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Flaming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 7:18:57 AM   
puella


Posts: 2441
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I would like to say, that I think you make a perfectly well reasoned and very elegantly stated point about taking the high road in such tawdry occurrences as flame wars.

However  (there is always a however, no? hehe),...


It is not just about the flamers themselves (unfortunate choice of word, perhaps, lol), clawing for attention and  some sort of warped concept of  status. 

Look at the number of hits to the posts where the flame war erupted... apparently, not only the attention seekers in question enjoy a good, old fashioned pissing contest, rousing cat fight or shocking immolation.  Judging from the voyeuristic traffic those threads get  compared to the majority of more even tempered intellectual debates, and the thread itself before the flame war had erupted it would seem that many people 'enjoy' or at the very least, are drawn to watch the trainwreck... many more will add their two cents to it, even if they think they are taking the moral high ground or that they are actually adding worthy content to the mêlée (somewhat akin to an audience member throwing a chair at a clan member fighting with Geraldo, and breaking Gerry's nose in the process in my opinion...).

People are emotional creatures and can some times be more easily inflamed that one would consider appropriate. We post to topics which on some level mean something to us, or engage us, or for which we have some personal investment.  That can sometimes expose sensitive areas which might occasionally get (and perhaps unintentionally) elbowed, providing the very real potential for all hysterical hell to break loose. 

It is a completely organic reaction, and flames are going to happen... if they are something that bothers you, the best course might well be to refrain from continually going back to read them (a definite form of participation) or certainly, not to contribute to them?  But given the 1600+ hits to that thread... some people were getting some sort of rise out of it, be it a gleeful snicker over a come-uppance, a rush of  self righteous indignation, a chortle at the idiocy displayed or just mild, low-brow entertainment.... who knows.  But I very much suspect that, even when presented with the logical (and in my opinion correct) assertion that engaging in flame wars is a much less dignified way to represent yourself in a forum for discussion, it will continue to happen, and  shockingly enough, might even suck you in, upon occasion.







(in reply to Another)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 7:31:24 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Ron,

Someone once called me a wordsmith. If I am a wordsmith, then you are a Master wordsmith. I do enjoy how you say things so that it actually requires alot of thought to understand the meaning.

Greetings Liz,

It happens in many different mediums and usually comes and goes. After a while it is usually recognized who it is that does it on a regular basis and they are often ignored by most. I think most are guilty of posting when emotions run high, but it is those that try to incite the emotions or that do it on a regular basis that often keep the drama going. As Ron said, it is usually best to just ignore it, which I have done on one particular thread but not on another. I should follow that advice on all of them but alas my pride gets the best of me sometimes.

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Oh, you know; there is really no reason to get wound up about it...

Flaming usually is fired by such vapid fuel that the work to stomp it out consumes more oxygen than is wasted by the arsonist.

Usually snoring thru the imbriglio is refreshing in and of itself. And remaining clear of the soot, there is nothing to wash off (including your soul)

Ron



(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 7:32:15 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Liz,
What can you do, save, pity these people, perhaps?
I do not think anyone can cause them any more damage then they cause themselves, or help show others their true colors. I feel they do a fantabulous job all on their own and those around them will see them for who and what they truly are.

Love ya Babs

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Another)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 7:41:52 AM   
nephandi


Posts: 3930
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline 		Greetings.

One of my personal weaknesses is a fiery temper, and all to often i see red and post to somthing before i think, i know this is wrong, but it is a hard habit to brake. It is hard somtimes when somone insult me to not answer back in full.


_____________________________

Whatever you think you can do or believe you can do, begin it. Action has magic, grace and power in it.--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Futon torpedoes, make love not war!--Aswad


(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Flaming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 7:42:47 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Smiles.

The nice thing is that if you are friends with certain people then what they say no matter what is a relevation (even if it is a flame).

The other nice thing of those who tend to stick to the subject and then are called childish etc etc etc by the very people who are in fact flaming and using Ad Homenin attacks, is an Honor.

Why?

Because of those who have stuck to the subject at hand need only do that while the othes scurry to find a response since they cannot respond in any other fashion. Hence the Ad Homenin attacks many have made upon me.

I have always said specificity will always out weigh generalizations. However, there are many techiques to gain the truth of the matter. I suppose doing extensive legal research and writing tends to bring certain things as second nature. When doing legal writing you start with the general, and then move to the specific, hence a reasoning that is difficult to refute.

With this said many do not enjoy their theories torn appart and shown that the same do not nor will ever hold water.

As I said before having extensive legal experience has its advantages here in a forum that is nothing but debate.

~smiles

Rapture


< Message edited by Rapture -- 2/21/2007 7:45:06 AM >

(in reply to puella)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Flaming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 7:53:49 AM   
puella


Posts: 2441
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		Well, yes, I suppose extensive legal experience will manifest advantages sooner or later (I have always wished it to be a bit sooner when dealing with my own legal representation, sadly...). 

I guess I was just noting that though trying to warn people about the indignities of participation in flame wars might be accurate, it is pretty unlikely to stop it, and that ... eventually we all have melt downs, and in the grand scheme of things... it is no biggie.

Engaging in debate can sometimes get passionate, especially if we feel strongly about something (even wrong things), but at least we are allowed to engage in uncensored debate...and perhaps, better yet, we actively choose to do so... if only more of our elected officials felt the same way, eh?

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Flaming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 8:07:14 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		puella,

These posts are censored to a certain extent.

However, I understand your contentions about the furer up yet, it is with such conviction, tenacity and furer with a twist of discipline that wins the day. Acting on raw emotion tends to gain nothing but is certianly fodder. There is nothing better than as we say the spantanous utterance.

Time to get ready for the salt mine. I wish you an enjoyable day and I will leave you with these:

---------------------------------------
All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.
~Arthur Schopenh
---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------
...integrity, honesty, and performance and competence have
to out weigh in this business-loyalty."
~General Tony Zinni (Ret.)
COMMENT:
Who are you being loyal to which then compromises integrity, honesty, performance, and/or competence?
---------------------------------------


Rapture



quote:

ORIGINAL: puella

Well, yes, I suppose extensive legal experience will manifest advantages sooner or later (I have always wished it to be a bit sooner when dealing with my own legal representation, sadly...). 

I guess I was just noting that though trying to warn people about the indignities of participation in flame wars might be accurate, it is pretty unlikely to stop it, and that ... eventually we all have melt downs, and in the grand scheme of things... it is no biggie.

Engaging in debate can sometimes get passionate, especially if we feel strongly about something (even wrong things), but at least we are allowed to engage in uncensored debate...and perhaps, better yet, we actively choose to do so... if only more of our elected officials felt the same way, eh?


< Message edited by Rapture -- 2/21/2007 8:10:37 AM >

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 8:31:59 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Babs,

Again I cannot remember the quote from the books about pity, but I feel pity lessens the person doing it and the person you pity. Whatever it is that causes the pity is something the person should learn from and use to better themselves, and I believe we should always accept those lessons in life (though some have been hard for me to learn).

Orion


quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti

Hi Liz,
What can you do, save, pity these people, perhaps?
I do not think anyone can cause them any more damage then they cause themselves, or help show others their true colors. I feel they do a fantabulous job all on their own and those around them will see them for who and what they truly are.

Love ya Babs

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 8:44:47 AM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2579
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Orion,

Quite right. I have a hard time keeping that in perspective...lol..I just am at a loss is all, from certain displayed behaviors as of late, is all, I hope it ends soon so that we can all enjoy the board here for it's original intent.

I wish you most well,
Babs

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 8:51:27 AM   
Another


Posts: 172
Joined: 10/2/2005
Status: offline 		Afternoon Orion,

I believe this is the quote you were referring to, a good friend of mine has it on his 360 page.


"According to the Gorean way of thinking pity humiliates both he who pities and he who is pitied. According to the Gorean way, one may love but one may not pity." Page 31 - Outlaw of Gor
 
 
I wish you well,
 
Liz

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 9:29:38 AM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7330
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Liz,

Yep that is the one, thanks. When I first read it a year ago, I had to go into my old journal where I had written my personal feelings on pity and compare them. It was like three years and a few months prior to me reading it. This is just one of those things I point to when I say that the philosophies are a personal journey, as you see where they fit into your own life.

Greetings Babs,

Just my own experience, but I have noticed all things tend to happen in some type of cycle. Even I noticed in myself that I was slightly irritated when responding to some posts, so I adjusted my thoughts.


Orion



quote:

ORIGINAL: Another

Afternoon Orion,

I believe this is the quote you were referring to, a good friend of mine has it on his 360 page.


"According to the Gorean way of thinking pity humiliates both he who pities and he who is pitied. According to the Gorean way, one may love but one may not pity." Page 31 - Outlaw of Gor
 
 
I wish you well,
 
Liz

(in reply to Another)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 9:33:40 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		Greetings,

I usually flame gently.  I don't usually like flame wars, and more often than not I block those I would be tempted to flame (a dreadful hurricane comes to mind.)  Yet, I don't shy away from flame wars if I think there might be some good or something valuable to discuss inherent in said flame war.

I also don't mind extending the olive branch, when the time is right and I think some common ground, or a common agreement can be reached.  I have nothing but respect for others, who do the same, when such an offer is sincere.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 11:16:03 AM   
Ashaia


Posts: 239
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		Tal ya'll,

You know, I really like the quote on pity. I read a long long time ago the essay Luther (in the location that his scrolls used to be on the web) wrote relating to this topic and learned a great deal more from his perception as well. The thing is, I don't pity the flamers. I suppose they have their place on almost every board I've ever joined. I prefer not to give them undo attention, but I do understand, they are there for their reasons just as I am there for my own. To each their own. Part of Gor is recognizing that people are supposed to embrace who they are and live it to the edge. Ost wasn't such a great man in the books. He was a "flamer" sort of character. He had a place in Gor. I prefer educated discourse and tend to post notes to those places that I feel are more like-minded to me and my needs. I figure each of you are doing the same. We each gravitate to those we identify with most.

I'm from the southeast USA and down here NASCAR is huge. Now most races go round and round and round. My in-laws live near the Charlotte Motor Speedway, and we've been out there, spending the night, and heard the sound of the cars, going round and round. Anyway, my point, and it is relative to flamers. The sound of NASCAR drones, and people by the thousands go out to see these races. Why? They go to see the crashes. Most won't admit that to you, but it is true. All the millions of circles round the track that go smoothly run together. It gets boring, tedious even, but the moment someone spins out, nudges another car, even to the point of deadly violence, everyone's avidly focused. It's true. People like to see the wrecks. We're sadistically human? Or something. The truth is, flame wars have a lot in common. One of the other writers here noted how many "hits" the flame threads were receiving. People are stopping to rubberneck. Who's said what now? Who's winning the nasty debate? Who cares?

I really do think very highly of most people I've seen speaking here regularly. I do understand that ALL of us have the tendency to be human occassionally and lose our temper, write in vigilant vehemence, and behave with less than grande ideal. That's pretty much okay to me. I'm glad to be a part of the human race myself and cannot find a perfect bone in my body. What I do notice is that there are some who choose to embrace the darkness, the nasty side of human nature, the rude, the crude, and the ugly, and those people rarely print anything positive. It is those people I avoid. To the rest of you, I'm so glad you're as human as I am. I have read a few "confessions" in this thread, and I add my own confession to it. I'm going to react in anger sometimes. I'm going to be less than calm sometimes. And I'll get myself together again, or will take correction in stride from those I respect who say ot me, "Ash, what the heck?"

I'm glad for this thread. Thanks for starting it, and to all who've added thoughts, hurrah.
Ash



_____________________________

"A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled."--Plutarch

"Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence." Henrik Tikkanen

Edith Wharton, "If only we'd stop trying to be happy we'd have a pretty good time.

(in reply to Stephann)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 11:32:27 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4212
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Los Angeles, CA
Status: offline 		Ubar Luthar's Scrolls.

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Ashaia)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Flaiming, baiting and inciting, oh my - 2/21/2007 5:43:48 PM   
krys


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline 		It seems to be a cyclical thing on this board.  Eventually it will reach its fevered pitch, whatever that is this time around, and die off again.  For awhile. 

The thing about a shit slinging contest is... it tends to splatter.  Sometimes its just not worth wading into the fray.


_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to Another)
Profile   Post #: 18
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