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RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time


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RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 12/31/2009 4:50:01 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

quote:


2.If these bits and pieces of wisdom were throughout the books..did the actual book Goreans know of this philosophy as actual philosophy, and molded themselves to it or were they simply just living, and only served as slight illustrations of what these points would look like when made in to a totality of life when these points were brought together?



yes
(this is like asking if a fictional character knows that he/she is going to die)


Thank you Master Dinnardin for offering your point of view.

Working with the above answer you have provided:

1. Did they have named philosophers to which they to attributed their way of going about life, and continually examining it or were they somewhat staunch or limited to the philosophy which guides those on Earth as well? (Editing cause this didn't sound the way I meant. Staunch or Limited as far as just the Gor philosophy for Earth but not limited that it doesn't mean other aspects of philosophers are in their lives as well as a persons own.)

2 If the Order of Nature was seen as the normal course or best course, and slavery was only a byproduct of their civilization..did Norman offer some sort of reasoning for making this a part of the books in some other way or was it just meant to be a titillation to the reader?

starshine

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 12/31/2009 5:00:27 PM >

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Dinnardin)
Profile   Post #: 10041
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 12/31/2009 6:38:31 PM   
Dinnardin


Posts: 368
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned


1. Did they have named philosophers to which they to attributed their way of going about life, and continually examining it or were they somewhat staunch or limited to the philosophy which guides those on Earth as well? (Editing cause this didn't sound the way I meant. Staunch or Limited as far as just the Gor philosophy for Earth but not limited that it doesn't mean other aspects of philosophers are in their lives as well as a persons own.)


Does the cat or dog go around thinking "I am a cat", or "I am a dog"?  No...they merely are cats and dogs (though some are, at times, confused in this....).  The Goreans in the books do not spend their time thinking about being Gorean, they are Gorean.  They don't think about how to live on Gor, they live on Gor.  There are some philosophers and guides, as it were, to help them in this, but, much as philosophers on Earth, they don't really effect much immediate change for those involved in the basics of living their lives as Goreans, on Gor, in badly written books.
quote:



2 If the Order of Nature was seen as the normal course or best course, and slavery was only a byproduct of their civilization..did Norman offer some sort of reasoning for making this a part of the books in some other way or was it just meant to be a titillation to the reader?


Personally, I think it was just Dr Lange's attempt at titillation, but then again, it is still my personal opinion that Gor is NOT about slaves or slavery, it is merely something that some Goreans choose to partake of.  This question might be better answered by others, though....
quote:




starshine


John, AKA Dinnardin

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 10042
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 1/1/2010 6:31:10 PM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		greetings starshine,

I do not think he wrote it to titillate the readers but that he recognized that over the course of history there have always been slaves. He took into account that some people would choose enslavement over death and that beyond that some people even embraced slavery.

He was just pointing out that slaves are part of the natural sliding scale of dominance and submission in people.

well wishes
kisshou

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 10043
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 1/5/2010 6:08:09 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..

Thank you Master Dinnardin and kisshou.

I can see that line of thought kisshou thank you..though it really did take a bit to sink in because of the more sexual overtones almost giving a sought after glamour or higher life achievement to be a female slave than Free.

Going in somewhat step with the Priest Kings thread that brought up the inhabitants of Gor being earth humans to start with...who or was there anyone there from which they received direction...or was their evolution basically just mirroring prior barbaric human evolution ..to which if it was then it would really seem to be a statement of not what earth humans should aspire to but more what earth humans lost and could regain again?

starshine




_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 10044
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 1/7/2010 7:23:02 PM   
Pygromanche


Posts: 14
Joined: 6/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Yes i did. grins there were many times in my slavery wherein i seriously believed i was still in control and i decided to claim my equal ground with him by figuring if i AGREED with the order i was on some level choosing it myself. I said i am comfortable, i am cool, even an i agree with that suggestion -- GOOD decision (word to the wise, make sure you are out of the house and off the front porch when you say that one). And yes, i really did say oh hell no, and no fucking way, to him too a couple times. I am also a very dominant personality and my sorjourn into enslavement wasn't simple acceptance and understanding and obedience.

Especially when i was new to the slavery. HE dealt with these times in many different ways. Slavery is so many levels of understanding with women. You go through so much in the loss of your autonomy and self-determination. I would raise my eyebrow to a woman who didn't at some point in her relationship in being mastered where she didn't try and appear even to herself equal in status to him. The problem is most girls try and ACT a part, they aren't in relationships long enough to solidify or go through some of the adjustments so they try and determine what IS being slave like and what is not. When in actuality, slaves do all kinds of crazy things when becoming slaves and their Msters because they know the girls deal with each situation.


I personally believe the best way to learn of slavery is to NOT have any preconceived ideas of what it is because then a woman has no choice but to simply react and allow her Master to enslave her and make determinations of how she exists.

angel



I have to say I enjoyed your post and Thank you soo much for posting it! I am originally a Domme.....very dominating personality, and now I'm finding myself drawn to submission. Not even submission, throughly absorbed by the notion of being a kajira. It was very difficult to even allow myself to go there mentally, and for a while I thought I was the only woman who felt that way....that is until I realized the strength in submission and how much you learn about yourself. Finding out there were other strong women that had it, the desire to please and to serve, it makes me feel like less of an anomaly. I have been having such difficulty finding my balance or footing in living Domme and becoming slave, or seeing as how I am not yet owned...becoming very open and accepting to that possibility...desiring it even.

Thank you again for showing me I'm not the only one :)

Py

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 10045
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/10/2010 4:43:11 PM   
alittleevil


Posts: 235
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings,

This past week my family has faced an extremely painful, sorrowful  situation. This was my extended family, and while yes, Master is certainly "part of the family" (in fact, they already think he pretty much walks on water), he stepped in to do certain things that are Family matters. Kin matters--things that he should not have had to do, that were others' shoes to step up to. But, these things had to be done, so he just...did them.  With such strength and conviction, and nothing but the deepest compassion and respect for my hurting, confused family. And He shrugs it off like it was nothing. I already adore and admire Master beyond the telling of it. But i had to give it a try.  Thank you, Master. I love You, Master.

Shit happens in life.  It just does. You don't know the mettle of a person til it's shown. And, in my life to the point that Master claimed me, damned few men who demonstrated such things as genuine compassion, respect, honor and strength (such easy words to throw out there, such stunning clarity as to their meaning when you see them in action).  Words are completely inadequate to express how proud and privileged i feel to belong to and serve such a Man, yet how humble and small i feel when i think of what he has done for those i love.

Thank you for listening. Be well, all.

aj





< Message edited by alittleevil -- 2/10/2010 4:44:03 PM >

_____________________________

Throw me to the wolves because there's order in the pack (RHCP)

(in reply to Pygromanche)
Profile   Post #: 10046
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/11/2010 4:33:06 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings...

Some times aj we are just fortunate to find the half that makes the whole, and awe struck moments from that moment forward never seem to be in short supply.

starshine


_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to alittleevil)
Profile   Post #: 10047
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/15/2010 12:12:51 AM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 508
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings girlies (if there are any around... it's been mighty quiet around here lately)...

Anyway, on another thread where there is a really interesting conversation going on between Master Trevelyan and Mistress Cherylmazana which I don't want to interrupt, the following statement was made:

quote:

“The object of Gorean morality is to make people free and great.” When with slavery, after all it is repeatedly said that slaves have no honour, and their desire is to be enslaved and obedient not free and great?


It just got me thinking. I know the way free is being used in the sentence is alluding to being internally directed as opposed to externally, and in having personal sovereignty in relation to society etc. But... I also look at the words "free and great" and wonder if they can apply to slaves in a way too? The books often talk about veils of concealment and how cumbersome they were and how free a slave felt in slave clothes. And I wonder... I feel like I do find a personal freedom in slavery. It frees me from those veils I feel weighed me down most of my life and allows me to drop society's boundaries, it allows me to embrace who I am and exist where I feel best. When I am mastered, I feel held and I feel like internally all the stress of trying to exist with the veils and just wanting someone to remove them from me so that I can be me just washes away like just breathing out and relaxing. It may not be freedom in a traditional sense, but I find more freedom under a man than next to him. And I feel stressed and confined and unhappy when I do not have that mastery. As to greatness... I don't know if that can apply or not... if fulfilling what you were meant to do and be and being true to your nature helps you to be great, then perhaps slaves can be made into great slaves. I suppose it depends on what is considered "great." Is it fame and fortune or is it something more intrinsic? I am curious what other girls think about this. Do you feel free as a slave? Are you able to be greater or better because you are mastered?

Well wishes,
anna



< Message edited by AnnaOfAramis -- 2/15/2010 12:14:50 AM >

_____________________________

“I refuse to be the leader. I want a man ... always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot."~Anaiis Nin

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 10048
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/19/2010 1:13:55 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3033
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings anna,

I believe that I am free when I am owned.  As you stated, I am free from the expectations of society.  I am also free in the aspect that I can now live authentically.  My life in service to SJ is organic, natural, and, under his management, has become much  more fulfilling than I had ever believed it could be.  There is a certain sense of greatness which corresponds more to a vastness than to a superior position.  My life is so much more, so in that sense, yes, it is great. 

well wishes ~ fairer than she

_____________________________

"The girl shows up tomorrow evening for some time together...and I need someone to fuck with, so things are looking up, I reckon. "

"The girl is a world class somnambulist." ~ Senor Jaime

(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)
Profile   Post #: 10049
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/19/2010 3:36:07 PM   
ElizabethAnne


Posts: 1710
Status: offline 		Hello sweet fairer,

Good to see you posting here again.  My best to SJ.

Take care of you...and him!  ;)

Liz

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
Profile   Post #: 10050
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/19/2010 3:42:05 PM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3033
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Mistress Liz,

Thank you for the warm reception.  I'll send your best to SJ.  He has us on a new diet and exercise regimen.  I am really enjoying it and have lost 8 pounds so far.  SJ has lost well over 10 lbs. 

Hope you and yours are well.

well wishes ~ fairer than she

_____________________________

"The girl shows up tomorrow evening for some time together...and I need someone to fuck with, so things are looking up, I reckon. "

"The girl is a world class somnambulist." ~ Senor Jaime

(in reply to ElizabethAnne)
Profile   Post #: 10051
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/20/2010 8:52:08 PM   
djinni


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		Greetings...

Some of you may remember me from a year or three ago... I was on here then as bina, and before that, millisande.
Please forgive me... I am likely going to ramble a bit..
I would like to begin with an apology, to those I butted heads with so often, especially angel, who did not deserve such treatment from me. It was not my place to act in the way I did. Words only mean so much, so I can only hope to display, with my actions, the sincerity of my regret for my behavior.

I have been absent from the community for a good while. I have had a lot going on... miscariages, job hunt, begging release... and now filing for divorce from my previous owner and soon to be ex-husband, after the relationship took an abusive turn. We are separated, for the time being, though, and I have, in the last few months, sought new ownership, and, yesterday, received a collar from a man I have known for six years now.

I guess I just wish to say that I am back, and that I am glad, oh so glad, to be back, to return to the way of life that feels like coming home. Beyond that, I just wondered if any of you wonderful women of this community cared to PM me... I could use someone to talk through my feelings with, and in my time with my previous owner, have become severed from most of my friends and companions.

Thank you all for listening.
May your path through life be safe.

With all respect, and in hopes that this pleasing to the Free,
djinni, blessedly in service once more.

P.S. I would like it to be clear that I am not, nor is it my intent to, in any way, talk negatively of Master Wolf, my previous owner. Mistakes were made, in our relationship, but he is seeking counseling for his issues, and I pray that he will come through all of this stronger.

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
Profile   Post #: 10052
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/21/2010 6:25:50 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2149
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		Good morning everyone...

I thought i would pop in and say hello. It's been some time since i have done that and have been getting e-mails asking if i was still around. I am.......I have been lurking here and there.

There is much going on and while i am not seeking anything, i want to let y'all know what's been happening. I am originally from a small town in Michigan and on 5 February i found out that two dear, dear friends were tragically murdered in their home. What has made this even worse is that my daughter has been dating their nephew whom lived with them. I have been at a loss in my own grief, and at the same time trying ever so hard to comfort my child and her boyfriend all the way from Colorado. I was up in Michigan right before Christmas and was able to spend some quality time with all of them......my heart hurts and i have not found any comfort in welllll.......anything right now. I still have our last conversations in text from the day before on my phone, I can't seem to erase those yet. I can still hear all our laughter sitting around the table trying to eat pizza.

My daughter has been subjected to talking with the Police in this matter...her boyfriend was initially put on the suspect list, only because that is normal to do in these matters. He has been cleared.................and wellllllll, my heart hurts.

The community is a rather tight one and everyone is on alert. This person has not been caught yet, and all I can think is I hope he rots in hell. I have alot of healing to do on my own side.

I am not seeking sympathy, I just wanted to let those that know me and have been mailing and suggested I post this to let y'all in on what is happening on my end. I am working through this........thank each of you for the support you have given.

-smilezz-

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 10053
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/21/2010 11:57:42 PM   
djinni


Posts: 2
Joined: 2/18/2010
Status: offline 		Greetings, Masters and Mistresses,
Greetings, slaves.

Greetings, smilezz
You have my heartfelt sympathy, and my prayers are with you that the criminal be found, and that no one else is harmed before then. I wish you and yours safety and comfort in your time of distress and heartache.

With all respect, and in hopes that this pleasing to the Free,
djinni

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 10054
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/22/2010 8:23:47 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline 		(((smilezz))) I'm so sorry..what a terrible tragedy.

Take it slow and hang in there :)

_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 10055
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/22/2010 5:09:51 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 508
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings smilezz,

I'm so very sorry to hear what you have been going through. I wish there were words I could say that would help, but I can't imagine there could be.

hugs,
anna

_____________________________

“I refuse to be the leader. I want a man ... always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot."~Anaiis Nin

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 10056
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 2/22/2010 5:19:43 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 508
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline 		Greetings fairer than she,

Thanks for your insight. I like the way you put it... Organic and authentic and free of expectations of society. I also like the idea of vastness which I'm still turning in my mind.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts

well wishes,
anna

_____________________________

“I refuse to be the leader. I want a man ... always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot."~Anaiis Nin

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
Profile   Post #: 10057
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 3/4/2010 4:48:49 AM   
kisshou


Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings girls,

right now i am really upset about something so i hope this post makes sense.


have you ever heard anyone say i am a submissive not a doormat?

how would you explain what the difference between the two is?

I tried to explain that it is a gut feeling , that being a submissive or a slave is about being in a relationship while being a doormat is just being used.

uggh i am so frustrated right now, you know when you know something is right or wrong in your gut but you can't put it into words.

so i am hoping you all will help me out (please)

well wishes
kisshou


(in reply to AnnaOfAramis)
Profile   Post #: 10058
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 3/4/2010 6:23:52 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 3938
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		Hi Kisshou,

Relax a bit there wenchlette and remember this. A valued "doormat" far and away bests dealing with a self important "submissive".

I'm not going to jump head first into the debate in semantics over term choices, but it has been my experience that girls that go on about how terrible it is to be a (doormat) and how they are better than that are in or have been in relationships with men (or should I just say dominants, I wouldn't want to exclude the females that have yet to earn their stripes) they don't trust and or actually believe in.

It seems that "kajira" are often berated by "subbie types". I have my suspicions as to why this is, I would suppose, for the "subbie", it is frustrating and hard to measure up to a girl that is actually mastered and not held simply by a mutual bargain.

While it is possible for unvalued and neglected "doormats" to exist; I rather doubt you are one. You seem very comfy in your own skin, at least as much as I can tell from here. So there must be a happy masterly type around there somewhere.

Do you suppose that the person that commented about the doormat subject is afraid that she is lacking in obedience and devotion, therefore intends to chastise or to manipulate those that serve well in order to minimize her own shortcomings?

As for exlaining the difference in the two. It seems the "doormat" types tend to view their "subbie sisters" as sassy, unruly or brat like. And the "subbies" tend to remark about how the "doormat" does everything she is told and never speaks back or stands up for herself, at least where others can see. I suspect that you can see a trend developing here.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

have you ever heard anyone say i am a submissive not a doormat?

how would you explain what the difference between the two is?



editted because I forgot a part. Good thing they give me an hour to clarify my thoughts.


< Message edited by xBullx -- 3/4/2010 7:05:14 AM >

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

While some people are ruled by emotion, I suspect you'll find that I'm rather obdurate.

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 10059
RE: slaves thread: support and girlie time - 3/4/2010 6:24:14 AM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 508
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline 		Hi kisshou, I can understand your frustration! I kept trying to think of how to explain it and everytime I got half way through a sentence, I went ...uh no... and had to scrap it because I knew how the argument would go to the opposite. It's tough to explain without getting trapped by semantics, but I'll take a stab at it .

I think the metaphor of a "doormat" is referring to something that people "walk all over" and "wipe their feet on". In other words it refers to someone who gets walked all over, trampled and used without regard by everyone. Someone who doesn't stand up for themselves and lets people do this to them. While this might be at times applicable in the case of actual slavery- eg like slaves in the American south, the slavery we are talking about is internal enslavement. Which I think is a process that involves nurturing. In other words, we become enslaved because something in us is fed so that it grows. In the doormat case, there is no nurturing going on. Whether or not the doormat gets something out of being used as a doormat is not on the mind of those using it. No one is trying to inspire the doormat to be a doormat. No one is concerned with taking care of that doormat. In consensual slavery, the slave is property and is nurtured, valued and taken care of- well at least when you're talking about internal enslavement in a Gorean sense. I'm not sure about some (not all) of what I see among BDSM slaves. Perhaps this is where the communication disconnect lies?

Good luck! (count to ten and b-r-e-a-t-h-e! )

anna

_____________________________

“I refuse to be the leader. I want a man ... always over me. His will, his pleasure, his desire, his life, his work, his sexuality the touchstone, the command, my pivot."~Anaiis Nin

(in reply to kisshou)
Profile   Post #: 10060
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