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Malkinius -> RE: Your Idea of Gor (3/23/2007 12:03:16 AM)
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Greetings Jadga....
You have probably read my comment to Troll at this point, now I get into detail with you and explain my comments there.
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ORIGINAL: Jadga
I would like to see others concept of Gor posted here--lets see how others see it!
Being shy as I am--here is mine--grins!
Now at the risk of beating the dead horse—
Yep....very dead....and you adding nothing new to the horse or the beatings.
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I keep hearing 2 issues on Gor, # 1-online role playing #2 “real” Gorean’s
Now let me predicate this with a couple of facts—you cant be a real anything that is fictional—if you think you are a “real” gorean—seek professional help right now or have the Doctor you have change your meds—you have lost your fragile grip on reality.
Ok...so you start out with this is nothing but a fantasy so nothing is real and I can do and be whatever I want and call it Gorean because nobody can tell me different. Boring! We have slapped this one down so many times it has become funny. Statements like that usually lose people who know what is really going on for the rest of your post. Just like writing a book....the first paragraph is very important to hook them, not have them laughing AT, not with you.
Also...there are three types, not two. First are the online Gorean gamers. Second are the offline Gorean players. Third are the people who live or try to live as Goreans here on Earth.
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Now let me say I am one of the lucky ones—I have had real time slaves, even 24/7 slaves and r/t slaves –as in we see each other as we can—there are more definitions of r/t than I got drawers---
Since being Gorean here on Earth...and in the books...and absolutely nothing to do with slaves, this means what? What it says to me is that you have no clue and probably won't see the ones that hit you up side the head and knock you into next week.
Let me say this again so you get it. If you think being Gorean has anything to do with slaves and slavery, you will never be Gorean or understand the people who live as Goreans. You will understand the group two players. You will understand the people who think that Gor is a flavor of BDSM. You will never believe nor understand the few people who live the philosophies from the books as opposed to the fiction (which is all you see) from the books. You are looking only at the items that explain and exemplify parts of the philosophies, not the philosophy or an ethos derived from it.
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But lets get this to the nitty gritty--- online role playing and living with your Master—
Lets not. Neither have anything to do with being or living as a Gorean here on Earth.
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All the rest fall somewhere in-between.
Simple fact online role-playing can be fun, it can teach someone about his or her Mastery or his or her slavery. All do not have the privilege of having a real life slave or a real life master
Since you cant be a “real” fictional thing—you can only apply part of the concept of Gor to your daily life—you cant fly a Tarn to work nor if your boss pisses you off you cant draw your sword and cut off his head.
Actually....you can cut your boss's head off with a sword if you get pissed off at him. Shooting him is easier and much more common. It happens with too much frequency....sometimes a couple of times a month here in the US. You will at the least go to jail for it, but if you really feel a sword to his neck is what you have to do....you better practice first. Cutting off a head is much harder in reality than it looks in the movies. The medieval executioners sometimes took several strokes to behead someone...and their victim wasn't moving or defending themselves.
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So we are down to two Gorean’s—ones online only, ones that have the ability and privilege of applying the concept of Gor to their daily lives.
Now simple fact is this—of all the ones that talk about real and deplore r/p—I have seen less of them act in anyway Gorean than the ones that r/p
I very seriously doubt you have ever met any people that I would call Gorean. Have you even met any of the players offline or are you still online only except for whatever you might convince to be your slave?
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Now I happen to enjoy both the role playing and the discussions on Gor---makes me strange I guess—but I don’t go into a r/p room and start poking fun at someone nor do I enter one and say screw you and rules –you cant kill me I am “real”—and proceed to let my mouth show how stupid I really am.
Actually...this is not uncommon at all. One of the best writers about Gor, Luther, known for years as Ubar Luther, was totally a gamer. He just loved the books and writing about things from the books and researched and wrote very well.
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Simple fact Gor has a few simple principals—and many complicated ones
Gor is Honor, Strength and men above women
Nope. You are looking at the ballpark...from the inside. I will give you enough parts to make up one correct point....if you take pieces from all three.
Go read the page Our Credo. Then come back and reread what you wrote below in the next quote box.
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Lets take each one at a time---Honor—look it up—but boiled down to small male words we all can understand—if you say it –it had better be true—if you say it you better follow through—if you say it you better be willing to give your life for it, if you say it you better make all believe you—by your actions—not your words and bull shit
Strength—don’t mean you are 9 feet tall and look like a brick wall—means you have inner strength—the kind a stranger sees and respects—you have self respect and by having that all you meet give you respect—you have the strength the be kind when needed, to listen to others, to protect those that cant protect them selves—strength of character—strength of purpose—strength of will—this all makes strength.
Men above women—this is men lead women follow—does not mean men command—and women follow, does not mean men demand and women follow, as it was once told to me—you go as you will—the rest of the world will follow you—if you have purpose and are worthy. Masters that slight and abuse women are not leaders—men that demand instead of setting an example are not Masters—a good Master explains—a wonderful Master teaches—A True Master inspires—truer words were never spoken!
There is no such animal as a "True Master", especially a TGM (True Gorean Master) any more than there a TGK (True Gorean Kajira). There are men who happen to own slaves. There are good Masters and bad Masters just as there are good and bad slaves. If they are not playing, you could say they are a "true" Master whether they are a "true" good or bad Master. Your online playerisms are amusing...pathetic...but amusing.
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I see both discussion Gorean’s and r/p Gorean’s demean and bash slaves and each other
No...you see people demean and bash each other.
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This is not a sign of strength but a sure sign of deep-seated insecurity and lack of strength. Before you can Master another’s life you must have mastered your own life.
Good...you quoted that one right at the end. There is another reason some of us use the Clue By Four(tm) rather freely on people like you. It is called teaching. You might get it. Best of all...and more likely...others might get it from seeing it used on you and your very predictable responses when that happens. Sometimes, the best way to teach something is with a negative example....the "See that...don't do that." I do want to than you very much for your willing participation in these lessons.
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Most of us are still working on that one, some have come farther than others—but simple fact we all learn and grow and have things to over come. Ones with true strength never quit—they keep going no matter what and make it happen.
Here we are in full agreement. All of us have our own journey to make and no two of us are at exactly the same place. You get full credit for that one.
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I have been involved in some form of Gor for longer than many have lived—I have seen hundreds come and go both in real life and online—and to be truthful—few have impressed me. Most have no grasp of the actual “concept “ of Gor.
I am old have lived a full life online and off—have done all I ever wanted to do (except being filthy rich) traveled all over the world and seen more than most, I think that has given me a very different outlook and maybe more patience than most—I for one dearly love the concept of Gor and believe that is what the world needs now.
What you are saying is that you have spent years playing Gor online and are now moving it offline? So far my very small search for you has turned up nothing. You obviously used another nick or nicks playing Gor online. I will say that you have not been involved in Gor longer than I have been alive....but we are older than most who are involved in things Gorean online. Most only found it online, not from the books when it they were new.
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Politicians that put their “Homestone” above personal ambition, boss that you can trust and believe—workers that have Honor and pride—and women to raise our children in a home—not to let a school and strangers do it for them—children taught values and responsibility and know that there are consequences and punishment for your mistakes.
You might read the books again...assuming you have. Home Stone is always two words and it is a hunk of rock, not a place or group. A Gorean from the books would speak of putting their city first, not their Home Stone. That would be like saying an American would put his flag or the original copy of the constitution before their personal ambition. What you wrote sounds rather silly when you put it in the direct equivalent context, doesn't it. We call that a "playerism".
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In my minds eye I can see a gorean family—Man doing his job providing for his family, teaching his son his caste—and back handing him as needed—letting him get hurt being stupid—since you need to learn that way sometimes—a FC keeping the home, taking care of her men, teaching the girls to take care of their men—respect him for what he is—a Man—and have pride that she is a woman—slave or Free!! A place where respect for each other abounds—because they have self respect—and because they earn the respect.
Let me wake up one day and find myself on Gor!!! (And maybe a shot of stabilizing serum would be good too)
I am Jadga
You can envision what you want. I have seen real, live, men and women who live as Goreans here on Earth and they don't look anything much like that. They look like people doing their jobs; living as they believe they should live; taking the responsibility for themselves, their families, sometimes their slaves and otherwise just being people who live by a different philosophy than most here on Earth.
Maybe someday you will meet and learn this for yourself.
Be well....
Malkinius
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