Kuldan
Posts: 52
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline
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Indeed, I am finding that communication often is best when it has both quality and quantity.
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Again, they can walk away, not because they are or not a slave but because whom ever they are walking away from does not wish to brave possible consequences from society. There are many instances both online, offline, and in the books that the girl simply wouldnt leave, either left (ran) and then returned, or just simply disappeared. These instances and practically the reasons why she ran or left or returned are similar in nature. You have this even in studies of say domestic violence victims returning to the same person all the time-it is the psychological hold or should I say the enslavement.
The above is a dangerous conclusion - that victims of domestic violence return because of a psychological hold or enslavement. Personally, I will coin such deliberate abuse. Nonconsensuall speaking, certainly such is a demonstration of the application of psychological power over another person - but with the intent to cause harm.
While I know and understand how such mechanisms work, I strongly believe that they have no place whatsoever in the Gorean lifestyle.
I'll just quote wikipedia on domestic violence to bring across the point a bit more clearly:
"Identified and proposed causes include a need for power and control, a form of bullying and social learning of abuse. Abusers' efforts to dominate their partners have been attributed to low self-esteem or feelings of inadequacy, unresolved childhood conflicts, the stress of poverty, hostility and resentment toward women (misogyny), hostility and resentment toward men (misandry), personality disorders, genetic tendencies and sociocultural influences, among other possible causative factors. Most authorities seem to agree that abusive personalities result from a combination of several factors, to varying degrees."
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...As with those ethoses you mentioned are an internal thing, as with being a slave. Some wish to sit in denial, some do not, some are just going in circles. Oddly enough, most us the term "Gorean Ethos" yet the term is very broad, and I have yet to see anyone who would wish to contradict what I am saying specifically state anything but the broad, ambigious and vague term without any specificity.
I don't yet know exactly what your specific ideas and philosophies are, and I'll refrain from making assumptions until I think I know clearly enough what you are about before I will comment - unless such is brought up directly, such as the issues here that I am commenting to.
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They speak yet they are still subject to Men, who allow them to be "free".
That is true - not generally, but only within the Gorean circles. I am sure you would not tell your own mother, or daughter, or sister 'you are only free because I allow you to be".
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It is about _actual_ power isnt it, and not just a pervceived being "in" power?
Yes it is about actual power. And that is one of the attractions of the Gorean lifestyle - that it is not an enactment, a game, but with the consent and understanding of all involved, true power being wielded. But said actual power knows its limitations, too. To say it in the words of a currently popular comic book movie, "With great power comes great responsibility". If you use your power like a tyrant, eventually you will die a tyrants death, literally or otherwise.
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As I said, she could not nor will ever stand on her own merit. I can bring friends too...yet that isnt the point.
As you said yourself, that is indeed not the point. The point is that 'women will come to Men's feet to rely on their strength when the surrounding changes, as in example of a disaster' is too broad a generalization, and in my eyes, an untrue one. Groups will form, as groups are stronger than individuals - but not neccessarily groups of women relying on men's strength. It can very well be a mixed group that cooperates.
Generally speaking, those that are naturally dominant and know what to do in a given situation, taking the lead, are the ones that others flock to. Also, given, that that more fits the description of men than women.
However, women can do such just as well as men do. Due to differences in biology, again, men will be more often found in such leading positions, and that's unlikely to change - but to state that women can't or won't do such would simply be incorrect.
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RE: The dilution of Gor - 
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. I'm sure I can sort through your femdom propaganda...
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