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The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 7:31:29 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Masters and Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
aea understands that to abide by the laws in modern Western society that some adaptations have to be made by Goreans that were not found within the novels. 
 
Yet, how far can things Gorean be diluted until they are no longer Gorean at all?
 
aea wishes you well.
 
I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness.....I dont mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh God, as a woman i want to be Dominated. Anais Nin
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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 7:45:04 AM   
Cyrano1


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		I feel that like any widespread reality that Gorean concepts and measured practices will continue to be worked and as you stated diluted. However as long as the Base structures are left strong then all will not be lost. Let's face it change is afterall inevitable but for an reality and a belief it is the measure of the dedication that makes the path shine

_____________________________


Cyrano

(in reply to aeaa)
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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 8:03:09 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Cyrano,
 
aea begs to know what you would consider the base structures that must be kept intact in order for things Gorean to remain strong, please.
 
aea wishes you well.
 
I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness.....I dont mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh God, as a woman i want to be Dominated. Anais Nin

(in reply to Cyrano1)
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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 8:16:45 AM   
Cyrano1


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		The Base structures are of Honour, Direction, Values and Integrity of Self

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Cyrano

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 8:17:49 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		How far can the dillution go? The dillution continues minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day, week by week, month by month and year by year....  Gor itself will not be dilluted per se but certainly people who claim they are Gor will adhere lesser things and thus will be dilluted. Of these people they will purport and pontificate things that they cannot quantify nor qualify, they will rely on agreement by and between others and therefore claim such things they say or do is a fact (which is a logical fallacy by the way), and then at night turn off the gor switch, or take off the gor hat.

These pontifications are guised in an Ethos of these people who cannot point to an origin, such pontifications are guised in everything is relevant, such pontifications are guised in conclusion without explanation, quantification or qualification. Sure, some will have different opinions on most things but at least their is a _basis_ for such differing opinion. This differing opinion though does not differ though from the chief aspects of Gor, yet those who purport or pontificate unknown theories without so much as the ability to point to an origin thereof, qualification or quantification are the one's to whom you look at who are or has been diluted.

This has been going on for years now. Steadly more and more are wearing Gor upon their sleeve, more and more only wear the hat of Gor, then when all is said and done, it all comes off.

You ask how far things can go till which point Gor is no longer Gor, it stops when people stop being complicant, when people who are Gor take the time to at least correct those who prontificate the various diluted aspects and those who would otherwise replace the same with some bdsm contention, it stops....with YOU.

However, to the most part most are scared of their own shadow, they make excuses, they want things handed to them, they want it the easy way, they want to sit on the fence, they want to be politically correct as to not to draw fire, the want to be able to fit in, and they want to be able to be a part of certain forums. Yet, of those who careless about fitting in, etc., it has already stopped with them, of these people, they correct others, they careless about being banned for a position nor do they change it to avoid bans, of these people they careless about the politics or if others disagree with them, of these people they stand and walk into that stronghold outnumbered then demand the hordes surrender, and if not, take them.

It all boils down to each person who is now reading this........ Yet I never expected much, nor will the perfect world come about.....

Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeaa

Greetings Masters and Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
aea understands that to abide by the laws in modern Western society that some adaptations have to be made by Goreans that were not found within the novels. 
 
Yet, how far can things Gorean be diluted until they are no longer Gorean at all?
 
aea wishes you well.
 
I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness.....I dont mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh God, as a woman i want to be Dominated. Anais Nin


< Message edited by Rapture -- 5/6/2007 8:19:12 AM >

(in reply to aeaa)
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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 8:38:49 AM   
Cyrano1


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		I can understand and do support where You are coming from Rapture as it has always been truly said Gor is a harsh place. Let us not however look past those that look for the all to forthwright and inately prevelant passage to a Gorean existence. For unfortunatly unlike the Gor of the books there is no ship ready to transport us there but here on Earth for the passage to be taken We true Goreans with Our Steadfast hearts and ideals must be the ship that gets them there

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 8:40:38 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Cyrano,
 
aea thanks you, Master.  she hopes perhaps others might expand upon the basic structure.
 
she begs that you might expound upon "Direction," Master, and also perhaps also what Values you speak of.
 
aea begs mercy if her interest is less than pleasing.  she appreciates having been thus far indulged in your thoughts, Master.
 
aea wishes you well.
 
I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness. I dont mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh God, as a woman i want to be Dominated. Anais Nin

(in reply to Cyrano1)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 8:49:41 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		I will add, of those who would otherwise ignore, or mutate so that they then can 'exist' and then call themselves Gor....

The transportation as you speak is not a silver disk but of self, and they surely need not mutate something into something it is not just because they wish to wear a label, or if they do not wish to do what is necessary....

Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyrano1

I can understand and do support where You are coming from Rapture as it has always been truly said Gor is a harsh place. Let us not however look past those that look for the all to forthwright and inately prevelant passage to a Gorean existence. For unfortunatly unlike the Gor of the books there is no ship ready to transport us there but here on Earth for the passage to be taken We true Goreans with Our Steadfast hearts and ideals must be the ship that gets them there

(in reply to Cyrano1)
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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 8:53:53 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Rapture,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
aea does agree that it comes down to each one of us, Master.  The fewer that allow Gor to be diluted by outside influence the greater the overall strength of things Gorean.
 
aea has come to wonder if that strength, that purity is enough within one's own life, the thought of community forgotten?  For aea it has certainly been so in the past while she has been owned.   her world small and focused upon the commands and pleasure of one man, all else becomes irrelevant.  she is sure, though it is far different for a girl than for a man. 
 
Having been thrust back into the mix of things aea finds much confusing, far different than things she has learned in the experience of belonging to a Gorean man.  It has wakened many questions in her mind.
 
aea doesn't recall Goreans being "politcally-correct," though she does recall most exhibited societal manners and some compliance when travelling amidst those geographical areas that practiced rituals differently, etc.  Is this more dilution that we see where such things are stretched further, Master?
 
aea wonders if it is her place to question such things?  It simply frightens aea at times to see something so beautiful and exquisite seeming to be sifted through and only tiny bits of what it was remaining.
 
aea wishes you well and thanks you for your thoughts, Master.
 
I do not want to be the leader. I refuse to be the leader. I want to live darkly and richly in my femaleness.....I dont mind working, holding my ground intellectually, artistically; but as a woman, oh God, as a woman i want to be Dominated. Anais Nin

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 9:17:41 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		...

quote:

ORIGINAL: aeaa

Greetings Master Rapture,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
aea does agree that it comes down to each one of us, Master.  The fewer that allow Gor to be diluted by outside influence the greater the overall strength of things Gorean.


... Would seem few have such strength, yet will only 'agree' in principal, and nothing more.

quote:


aea has come to wonder if that strength, that purity is enough within one's own life, the thought of community forgotten?  For aea it has certainly been so in the past while she has been owned.   her world small and focused upon the commands and pleasure of one man, all else becomes irrelevant.  she is sure, though it is far different for a girl than for a man. 


It is not about community. Its about individuals.
 
quote:


Having been thrust back into the mix of things aea finds much confusing, far different than things she has learned in the experience of belonging to a Gorean man.  It has wakened many questions in her mind.


Sometimes we must unlearn what we have learned...then become learnt.
 
quote:


aea doesn't recall Goreans being "politcally-correct," though she does recall most exhibited societal manners and some compliance when travelling amidst those geographical areas that practiced rituals differently, etc.  Is this more dilution that we see where such things are stretched further, Master? 
 


Thats not being politically correct as i mentioned it... There are many other instances where peoples senstatives were invaded and quite nicely...


quote:
aea wonders if it is her place to question such things?  It simply frightens aea at times to see something so beautiful and exquisite seeming to be sifted through and only tiny bits of what it was remaining.

 
Is this not a discussion forum? Do you not ask questions? If others do not wish to be questioned then perhaps they should remain silent. When someone posts they open themselves up to others. Then again, people do not post because they are told they are wrong or to shut up without any further explanation. The reason being is that what is being posted more than likely than not is just garbage and the person posting it cannot quantify nor qualify the remarks, so they attack the person.

Rapture


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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 9:18:32 AM   
Cyrano1


Posts: 14
Joined: 3/1/2007
Status: offline 		I agree Rapture Gor is a set of garments one chooses to put on it is who you are inside. As well quite a few will ever be true Goreans as they inevitably lack that which inexorably defines Us. My measure allows for a modicum of allowances cause to see Goreanist ideals and philosophies to Flourish We the true Goreans of Today must fuel it's rise. I am not saying in any respect that all will make the passage have personally encountered some that were dismal dissapointments but I go on As I truly feel the World at large can prosper from a hearty dose of Gorean Truth and Honour.

Not to forget you lil aeaa the Direction I speak of refers to knowing what is true and right in the grand scope of our reality and the Values are for Honour, Integrity, Strength of Self and dedication to a valued belief

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 9:25:15 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Rapture,
Greetings Masters and Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
quote:

It is not about community. Its about individuals.

 
Thank you, Master.  That does make it easier for aea to wrap her mind around as her thoughts continue to travel down this winding path.
 
quote:

  Sometimes we must unlearn what we have learned...then become learnt.

 
aea begs that Master might explain this further.  aea believes at the moment that much of what she has learned is quite valuable and right.  she realizes that if owned again it may need to be cast aside; yet, she fears what she sees around her, Master. she fears learning to be anything less.  
 
Which spirals in her mind to the question of "How can a slave be less?"
 
Thank you for your indulgences, Master.
 
aea wishes you well.
 


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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 9:51:42 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16627
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		aeaa,

Not much meaningful discussion is likely to issue from such a sweeping, vague question.

Not to mention sweeping, vague assumptions.

More specifically, what's on your mind? Or is this a fishing expedition?

Best,

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 10:53:20 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Tim,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
aea begs your mercy if you have found displeasure in her question, Master.  
 
she is lost in the cacophony of her own thoughts at the moment and is perhaps unable to better, more specifically form a question.  she is struggling better to form it, Master, so that it is not seen as wide-sweeping.
 
aea begs to offer an example perhaps which might narrow her question. 

Tolerance?
 
aea did not find Goreans to be very tolerant of codes being broken, of deception, of disobedient slaves, of betrayal, etc.  Is the tolerance that society all but demands of us here in Western society seen by anyone as a dilution of basic Gorean beliefs?
 
aea hopes that this is more pleasing, Master. 
 
aea wishes you well.

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 11:26:23 AM   
Nosathro


Posts: 1488
Joined: 9/25/2005
From: Orange County, California
Status: offline 		Tal and greetings
 
Gor is and never will be "politically correct" for it recongized a social structure where one group is dominate.  It also holds individual's to accountablity for their actions and no excuses.  It value system is based not on "me" but on "Honor" and "Respect".  For these reason Western Society and modern politics will never agree with Gorean values.  Perhaps Gor will not be diluted to something that is nolonger Gorean, for as long as Gorean values are kept by individuals Gor will continue.
 
I wish you well

Nosathro 

_____________________________

"The love of a slave girl is the deepest and most profound love that any woman can give a man. Love makes a woman a man's slave, and the wholeness of that love requires that she be, in truth, his slave." Magicians of Gor, page 31

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 11:48:46 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Nosathro,
 
Thank you, Master.  aea appreciates you giving her more to think of.
 
she wishes you well.

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/6/2007 2:14:35 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16627
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Ah.

Still broad, but a fairer question.

Western society is hardly so tolerant--people claim bias when things aren't biased their way. People sling labels at each other--liberal, conservative and so forth, often seriously misconstruing those labels (I've seen Ronald Reagen listed as "liberal"!)

So no, I don't think the "politically correct" factions are diluting Gor at all--if anything, the fundamentalists are hardening attitudes, preventing real discussion and promoting lies and half-truths.

Best,

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/7/2007 4:43:24 AM   
aeaa


Posts: 125
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings Master Tim,
Greetings Masters & Mistresses,
Greetings girls,
 
aea wonders Master Tim if simply slinging names is sign enough that there is little tolerance.  aea thinks that non-tolerance would be taking actions to put an end to certain things, standing up in a more profound way for what one believes in. As a more specific example, how many people work for companies or individuals whom they believe are on an opposing side of their own moral compass? Yet, they continue to work for them or do a job that goes against their own moral fiber rather than not tolerating such and walking away to find other work or to work for themselves. 
 
Master Tim, you wrote:
 
quote:

So no, I don't think the "politically correct" factions are diluting Gor at all--if anything, the fundamentalists are hardening attitudes, preventing real discussion and promoting lies and half-truths.

 
aea admits she is not certain she understands this or has seen what you have spoken of.  There are some hard Gorean attitudes, yes.  Those attitudes are basically the same that she did read in the books and rather expected to find, actually.  What she is missing are the lies and half-truths.  aea wonders if you could expound more specifically upon this if it pleases you to do so, Master?
 
aea thanks you very much for your thoughts.
 
aea wishes you well.

"When you live with love, creativity, faith and service to others, life has meaning, purpose and reward, you never get bored. Just like water never gets tired of flowing, you will never get tired of living and doing what comes natural for you." - J.D. Taylor

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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/7/2007 5:00:57 AM   
ygraine


Posts: 674
Joined: 10/10/2006
Status: offline 		Hello Tim,
"So no, I don't think the "politically correct" factions are diluting Gor at all--if anything, the fundamentalists are hardening attitudes, preventing real discussion and promoting lies and half-truths. "
Sadly an arguement as old as time.  Take out the word "Gorean" and put in "religion" and you will have the same arguement.
As long as we are all different, and thank goodness we are, there will be infinite interpretations of how a Gorean should be.  There will always be the fundamentalists and the ones who say..."Well back in the day when we were all great, it was great but now it has gone to hell in a handbasket"...etc.,
If you take the role players out of the equation, I believe the Gorean er..practitioners...believers? if you will, are stronger than ever.  Groups of people form and gather and discuss and try to quietly live this way.  It isn't very easy at times and it requires strength of conviction and postive change but it happens. 

It's the guys in weird costumes living in their parents basement that freak me out.

By the way, Tim, love your blog.  (Am I allowed to say that?)
All the best,
Y


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RE: The dilution of Gor - 5/7/2007 6:11:45 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 16627
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		aeaa and ygraine,

In BOTH paragraphs, I was talking about Western society, not Gor. Sorry for the confusion.

(e.g., Christian Fundamentalists--Jerry Falwell, for example, not Goreans).

As for standing up for what we believe, I guess I can't speak to that point--I certain work and speak out in accordance with my beliefs (and regularly getting into trouble over it), but I can't know what's in other people's minds.

Further, decisions aren't always as simple as clearly right/wrong.

Thanks for the kudos on the blog, ygraine. I appreciate it!

Tim

_____________________________

Yes, I still update my blog--thanks to all who asked!
http://writingtrue.blogspot.com
Gorean FAQ Threads

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