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Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mornin... - 11/6/2008 6:16:19 AM   
DedicatedDom40


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Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		 .... is required reading for all conservatives.

http://www.calthomas.com/index.php?news=2419

"Does the secular left, when it holds power, persuade conservatives to live by their standards? Of course they do not. Why, then, would conservative Evangelicals expect people who do not share their worldview and view of God to accept their beliefs when they control government?

Too many conservative Evangelicals mistake political power for influence. Politicians who struggle with imposing a moral code on themselves are unlikely to succeed in their attempts to impose it on others."

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 6:24:42 AM   
thornhappy


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Status: offline 		Man, I get tired of the left being characterized as secular, godless, amoral or immoral.  Just because they might not be evangelical/fundamentalist doesn't mean they are secular.

thornhappy

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 6:47:01 AM   
HunterS


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Status: offline 		thorn:
Just because they are full of god does not mean they are not full of shit.
 
H.

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 8:11:42 AM   
MmeGigs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
Man, I get tired of the left being characterized as secular, godless, amoral or immoral.  Just because they might not be evangelical/fundamentalist doesn't mean they are secular.


I get tired of words like "secular" and "evangelical" being used to frighten or bludgeon people. 

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 8:17:13 AM   
Cagey18


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
Man, I get tired of the left being characterized as secular, godless, amoral or immoral.  Just because they might not be evangelical/fundamentalist doesn't mean they are secular.


I get tired of words like "secular" and "evangelical" being used to frighten or bludgeon people. 


quote:

Just because they are full of god does not mean they are not full of shit.
 
H.

I could not agree more with these three posts.  Well said!

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 8:22:18 AM   
cloudboy


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Without question, the evangelical right is an albatross around the Republican Party's neck. What reputable conservative wouldn't want to throw the culture war bullshit overboard?

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 8:31:50 AM   
GreedyTop


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Status: offline 		I thought he made some good points....

Evangelicals need to learn to walk the walk.....


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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 4:11:47 PM   
DedicatedDom40


Posts: 350
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Ya need to remember, thorn, that this was written as a 'tough love' piece directed at the bible right, and not to any other middle ot left group. Gotta stick to their terminology. Its how you connect with them.

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 6:28:15 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Without question, the evangelical right is an albatross around the Republican Party's neck. What reputable conservative wouldn't want to throw the culture war bullshit overboard?


Um....

This is exactly the problem that the GOP faces.  The right wing is a very vocal minority.  A GOP candidate needs them for funding, and cannot win without their support (except in liberal states).  But they also drive away the moderates of all parties.

McCain tried to appease them by creating a two-headed monster, with himself as a moderate and Palin as the right winger.  That worked as far as getting the support of the right wing, but it cost him a lot of centrist support.


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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 7:06:02 PM   
FatDomDaddy


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Status: offline 		Interesting...

Evangelicals have been by tradition and nature from the left and but for Abortion and Homosexual Marriage they would be democrats to this day.  There has been much written about Nixon's "Southern Strategy" and its connotations with race but in actuality, it was the Christian Evangelicals that he was after. It really didn't bare fruit until the 80's but I do not see the Christian Evangelicals as a reliable force in Republican politics. Remember, this is the movement of William Jennings Bryant.a lion in the liberal democrat movement.  The tenants of Evangelical Christianity and Socialism fit well together and I wonder what the reaction will be from social liberals as the Obama Administration and the democrat Party reach out to the Evans to forward their agenda. Here is a question... Is a ban on "Partial Birth Abortion" and "Gay Marriage" worth "Universal Healthcare"? Curious indeed. 

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 11/6/2008 7:08:47 PM >

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 7:35:27 PM   
HunterS


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quote:

Here is a question... Is a ban on "Partial Birth Abortion" and "Gay Marriage" worth "Universal Healthcare


Here is a question for you...What is a "partial birth abortion"?  Could you please cite for me some medical text that defines this term.

H.

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 7:56:24 PM   
Kirata


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Status: offline 		Evangelical Christianity is an oxymoron.
 
MT 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
MT 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

K.
 
 
 

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 7:58:30 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

Interesting...

Evangelicals have been by tradition and nature from the left and but for Abortion and Homosexual Marriage they would be democrats to this day.  There has been much written about Nixon's "Southern Strategy" and its connotations with race but in actuality, it was the Christian Evangelicals that he was after. It really didn't bare fruit until the 80's but I do not see the Christian Evangelicals as a reliable force in Republican politics. Remember, this is the movement of William Jennings Bryant.a lion in the liberal democrat movement.  The tenants of Evangelical Christianity and Socialism fit well together and I wonder what the reaction will be from social liberals as the Obama Administration and the democrat Party reach out to the Evans to forward their agenda. Here is a question... Is a ban on "Partial Birth Abortion" and "Gay Marriage" worth "Universal Healthcare"? Curious indeed. 


...so, let's see if i read you right......right wing evangelicals are now unpopular with the voting public, so we should ignore how the Republicans courted them for the last decade or so, call them socialists and move on? Can you spell political expediency?

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 8:19:34 PM   
RainydayNE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MmeGigs

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
Man, I get tired of the left being characterized as secular, godless, amoral or immoral.  Just because they might not be evangelical/fundamentalist doesn't mean they are secular.


I get tired of words like "secular" and "evangelical" being used to frighten or bludgeon people. 


agreeing with both posts
and Kirata is TOTALLY right
totally

"intact dilation and extraction" is the name used "elsewhere" for what we call partial-birth abortion, because the rest of the body of the fetus is born, essentially, and then the contents of the head are vacuumed out.
there are lots of babies born feet-first, so it is almost like an induced breech birth, UP TO the head
i honesty think it's diabolical =p i mean unless it's done to remove a dead fetus, if the fetus is large enough to have to be aborted this way, why not take it, incubate it like a preemie, and find an adoptive family? (if that can be done anyway. i dont claim to be a doctor. but if they're 20-26 weeks along, i figure it could be done?)

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/6/2008 11:05:34 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I thought he made some good points....

Evangelicals need to learn to walk the walk.....


That's what I got out of it. Thomas was saying the same thing irrespective of the terms used to describe those that don't share the same spiritual feelings.

Time for the evangelicals to practice first...what they preach to each other on Sunday.

My view is the same as those commentators that tell us that while religion is no longer state power, it is now used politically to divide the people. In doing so in a republic risks narrowing your constituency. The evidence suggests it has done just that for the republicans.

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/7/2008 5:27:59 AM   
TNstepsout


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Status: offline 		He makes some good points, but sadly from the responses to his article, it seems that many just don't get it. I live and grew up in the Bible belt and I understand the attitude that underlies the Christian right. It's not a perspective that can be undone with an article urging them to "love thy neighbor" and saying "let's all play nice together, k?" Their ideals and beliefs are woven into the fabric of their lives and form the basis of their existence. Many have been brought up in strong evangelical families, with all their relatives, friends, neighbors and everyone they come into contact with all believing in the same thing and seeing the world in the same way. When some of those threads start to unravel, it's very frightening and very threatening. I think that's why so many people said that Obama was "scary". I think to them he is very VERY scary.

For many of these people, the role of America was to teach and mentor other less civilized and less enlightened nations and cultures. They really believed they were doing a good thing in bringing American Christian values and beliefs to other people. That has been an important cornerstone of the Christian faith for centuries and one of the tenets that caused it to flourish centuries ago. Evangelical Christians adopted this concept with a vengeance and came to believe that they have a responsibility to save the world from "ungodliness". They saw America as a vehicle for this. We have the power and influence around the world to do it, and the might to back it up if we are thwarted. They believe that we are a superior people and that we have a right, and a duty to "spread the word" through any means necessary.

Now they are seeing that instead of America influencing the world, the world is influencing us. We are moving away from those conservative Christian beliefs, and to them it is a sign that Satan is winning the war (so to speak). They are seeing fall of their nation from the inside and really and truly fear the outcome. A large segment of our population still holds these beliefs in very strict measure and another large segment holds them subconsciously. I've been shocked and appalled at the fear and outrage from people around me who I had assumed were more forward thinking. It will take a long time for these people to accept and adapt to the changes we will see in the next few decades. Some probably never will and it's too bad for them. They will miss out on a lot.

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RE: Conservative columnist Cal Thomas' essay in this mo... - 11/7/2008 6:26:58 AM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Evangelical Christianity is an oxymoron.
 
MT 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
MT 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

K.
 
 
 


I love this quote.

I've never understood how someone can say they are Christian and then flaunt their faith. Yes, Jesus did also send his disciplines out to preach but he also told them that if a town rejected them, to shake the dust from their sandals on the way out and just leave.

I have converted a couple of folks to Christianity in my life but I never did it by flaunting my faith or even going around saying "are you save?" -- I did it by living and when folks asked me why I made the decisions I did and lived as I did, then I shared my motivations and background and let them take it from there.

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