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Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 12:30:11 AM   
pahunkboy


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http://www.efinancialnews.com/homepage/content/1055173256

ouch.     What a bummer.  Now I feel "poor".
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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 12:47:02 AM   
BKSir


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What!?  That's impossible!  They're falling apart right and left because of socialized health care and all sorts of other socialized things!  Lies!  Lies I say! 

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 12:57:56 AM   
rulemylife


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Absolutely impossible.

We are the greatest economy in the world.

Anyone have a flag I can wave?






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/16/2009 12:58:51 AM >

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 3:22:14 AM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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I'd rather wealthy people lived as far away from me as possible due to cost of living considerations. You never drive prices down when there is someone willing to pay whatever the price for the item.

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 3:47:09 AM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

They're falling apart right and left because of socialized health care and all sorts of other socialized things! 


Which means?


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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 8:18:11 AM   
DemonKia


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Stella, I believe that was sarcasm . . . ..

Pahunk, excellent article, thanks for posting the link . . . . .

For those not as insanely number-oriented as I, here's some crunching I did on the factoid that we're down to a mere 9 million millionaires on the planet (poor things):

9 million out of ~6.7 billion population means that ~ 1 in 744 humans on the planet is a millionaire. That is 0.13% of the total population.

(That one caught my attention cuz one of the measures of economic growth much touted here in the US is the growth in the number of millionaires. & I'm so much more impressed by the floor lifting rather than the ceiling expanding, especially since the law of diminishing returns seems to imply that there's generally way more growth potential at the bottom of a scale than at it's top . . . . . Ie, there's potentially significantly more people liftable from the $0 to $100k range than there are from the $100k to $1 million range . . . . . . )

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 11:12:25 AM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Stella, I believe that was sarcasm . . . ..



Yes yes I see this now....

But then again like you DemonKia (and no doubt like most people) I"m more interested in what is happening at the bottom as opposed to what is happening at the top. Multimillionaires just don't interest me that much, as I'm far more interested in where homeless people are going to be sleeping, and how the poor are going to be making it through. Some people still laugh when I tell them that a poor person can nowadays be wearing a suit, driving a car and working in an air-conditioned office.

But then again prosperity to me has much more to do with the quality of your life as opposed to what is in your bank account.

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 11:20:22 AM   
pahunkboy


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Somehow I think this wont last.   EU plays games with its currency just as we do.  EU in general has higher taxes.

The derivatives mess is global and intertwined.

I guess I had not thought much about which country was richer.  My perception of EU is there are too many regulations on everything.  It also sounds like if one is poor- they can never rise to the middle/upper class.
(each year it gets harder in the US as well)

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 1:30:08 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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The EU isn't a country it's a democratic bureaucracy, with a single mission of confusion and hyper remote representation of the third kind.

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 1:38:52 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

It also sounds like if one is poor- they can never rise to the middle/upper class.




Dont confuse the class system with money Pahunk. You can be as rich as you like in the UK, but unless you were born into the top families, you will never be considered one of them.


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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 2:05:39 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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You can also tell if some has class because they'll own a Bostruchyzer. No lie No lie!

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 2:12:51 PM   
DemonKia


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Yeah, & there's much less class-stratification in Europe than there is here in the US . . . .

What there is, is a pervasive propagandistic thing on the part of the mainstream US / corporacracy media to depict those evil-socialist-Eurotrash-bastards as dysfunctional to the max, especially as compared with showing the more nuanced situation.

Yes, they have more rigid economic structures in place around labor, environmental & consumer regulations, & etc. Yes, they have somewhat higher unemployment than the US. Yes, they have higher taxes. & yes, they have more comprehensive welfare states that help cushion adversity to a degree rarely understood by those who've been graced but don't feel so graced. (Ie, & this is awful & cynical of me, it's true, I'm a bad, bad, bad person. Duly noted. But, ie, many US citizens, especially the whiny ones with resources in excess of global means & medians, & most especially those who've not had 'too much' adversity . . . .. )

& no, Europe's not on the edge of imminent breakdown, anymore than we are. Or the Chinese. Or India. Fantasies of econopacalypse are mostly just that, sorry, folks.

{Total aside:

I spent a coupla decades belonging to the catastrophe-is-just-around-the-corner crowd, & it was pretty disappointing. Historically & proportionately speaking, yeah, the late 20th century was very mild & well behaved. Nothing on the order of the Burning Times, or the black death. That tsunami, Xmas of '05, that was a catastrophe. But if only a coupla thousand people die, pshaw, that's pissant. When god-the-sadist wants to lash out, he can take out way more than the oh-so-ordinary 40k a year we do just in vehicular crashes just here in the US . . . . .

(Oh, & then I realized that much of it was really projective stuff from my depression. As I dealt with my depression the need to vent off into seeing apocalypse around every corner diminished . . . . . I still like a good disaster tho' -- I'm a sick fuck, but since George Carlin copped to the same enjoyment, I'm owning mine anymore. Alongside the occasional name-drop . .. . . )

Okay, sorry, end off-topic rant.}


Anyways, yeah, all that doom-&-gloom stuff, big grain of salt here.

& I'm unsurprised Europe has exceeded us. We (the US), we're not the inevitable & unending colonial overlords of the planet, not militarily or economically . .. . .

& someday, cheery thought, as a species, we'll give up our addiction to empire, of that I'm convinced . . . .

*strolls off singing "The Future's So Bright I Gotta Wear Shades"*

*stops*


Oh. This is a good place for a Bill Hicks quote:

It's just a ride and we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money, a choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as one. - Bill Hicks

Remember, that's a dead white guy talking. Respect.


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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 2:26:14 PM   
PyrotheClown


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fuck, we're falling behind on health care, education,crime rates, and now we aint even the highest rollers...


At least we can still put a cap in their collective asses

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 2:45:29 PM   
DemonKia


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What is that, something about violence being the last refuge of the incompetent (& the first, too) . . . . ..

Toddlers can destroy a whole room full of delicate wonders, it takes no special mastery to smash & kill, especially when the scale of weapons to victims is comparable to napalming anthills . . . . .

Yeah, seriously dude, I take no pride in some kinda exorbitant ability to be big sadistic bullies . . . . . . & what do we do with that? We fucking support murderous, abusive, anti-democratic, corrupt dictatorships, time & time again. Fuck. We like them better than oh-so-many democratically elected, peaceful regimes . . . . . . (Oh. With socialist leanings -- Allende, Mossadeq, the list is depressingly long.) Sorry, PtC, I know you're probably being ironic / sarcastic, but this is one of my pet peeves . . . .

I highly recommend a book called "Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II", by William Blum . . . . One of the single most painful reads in my life, should be mandatory reading for high-school students alongside Howard Zinn's US history text. I love my country but some of the things done in her name & by her people are stomach turning & / or deeply immoral . . . . .

ETA: [link]

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 9/16/2009 2:46:12 PM >

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 5:24:29 PM   
PyrotheClown


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haha, well I was being very ironic.
But I was try'n to point out some of our troubles(assuming you're a yank too)
and some of the pervailing truths of the day, including the fact that as fat and icompetent as we are,We're still number one when it comes to two things, Kick'n ass(which we have down to an art) and comsuming vast amounts of recources, so yeah, we are the bullies of the world(one of the sweetest most niave bullies the world has ever seen)..Except it, learn to maybe even love it(like an addict loves their drug of choice)but don't get pissy just cause some one acknowledges it.. Hell, the first step in recovery is addmit'n you have a problem lol

oh, and I think make'n those books required is kinda sett'n the bar alittle high, we need to get kids into this kind of shit slowly, maybe get them started with yertle the turtle and let them work their way up to the cartoon history of the universe lol

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 6:04:46 PM   
DemonKia


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Yep, I'm a Yank, a mixed blessing.

I don't think chanting, even en masse, "We're number one" over & over again is gonna keep us at the top of the heap.

Nor do I think that it's necessarily all that marvelous to be imperial center of the known universe . . .. I note that all those former colonial overlords look much more humane & rational in their faded-post-colonial humbleness than they did in their heydays, but I may just be cynical that way -- Britain, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, France. They all spent time being the power center of the known world & now they're pretty groovy places.

& I have faith in human young, they are far more adaptable & resilient & innately brilliant than adults give them credit for . . ... . As a student of anthropology & history a primal source of my optimism is knowing that each generation is getting better all the time, on average . . . . .



I understand not everyone shares my optimism, but what if optimism & pessimism are choices, votes for how you want the future to go? Your future to go? (General 'you', not you specifically, PtC . . . .)

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RE: Europe overtakes US as worlds wealthiest region! - 9/16/2009 11:36:56 PM   
stella41b


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Yep, I'm a Yank, a mixed blessing.

I don't think chanting, even en masse, "We're number one" over & over again is gonna keep us at the top of the heap.



Movies and music, movies and music..

There's never been a political system or religion which has quite united the world anyway like Hollywood or American pop culture.

I can remember attending concerts of The Leningrad Cowboys and Red Army Choir in Eastern Europe where they'd be singing songs like 'Sweet Home Alabama' and I can remember having a great time.

I dunno, but it seems pre-war (here I mean pre-Iraq War) when the focus was much more on movies and music it seemed that the world was a happier place and the Americans were more our friends.

I don't think it matters to be Number One any more, because that cultural achievement still stands, and I feel that there is far more to be proud of in that achievement collectively than there ever could be in being Number One.

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