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Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for pointl... - 4/5/2008 1:02:40 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		There's no clearer example of the United States' failure to construct effective policy than Richard Nixon's Drug War, which pretty much does nothing but hire prison guards...

So now we have the War on Terror, which pretty much does nothing but hire airport-prison guards.

Are the *same* people profiting, I wonder?

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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים
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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 1:14:12 PM   
HerLord


Posts: 697
Joined: 2/14/2008
Status: offline 		interesting point. I think maybe the *same* people are indeed profit(eer)ing.

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 2:12:11 PM   
mefisto69


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/19/2007
Status: offline 		we already went through the 50 year cold war and nobody learned any lessons. it was all designed for profiteering and self promotion for 'the few'. who propped up the evil communist empire by sending millions upon millions of $$ in food and other supplies on a yearly basis....... who promoted the arms race?

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 2:21:46 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Americans are as smart as a doorknob,  with the attention span of a door bell.  the names and faces change the grab for YOUR money/assets/sweat  never ends.

it floors me that they can "tell us"  with a straight face.

Bear Sterns cost each person here-  almost $1000.   [29 bln divided by 300 million ppl]


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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 5:59:16 PM   
SugarMyChurro


Posts: 1912
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Americans are as smart as a doorknob,  with the attention span of a door bell. 


You unamerican bastard!



But I can't argue with the truth. We see it proven every day on these forums that are thronged with ignorance.

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 6:12:02 PM   
abrown28


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quote:

So now we have the War on Terror, which pretty much does nothing but hire airport-prison guards.

Except for overthrowing the Taliban, destroying Saddams regime and promoting (hopefuly) a democratic and free society in a region that is sorely lacking in those qualities... you're 100% correct. Congratulations.

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 6:24:28 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
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quote:


Bear Sterns cost each person here- almost $1000. [29 bln divided by 300 million ppl]

Bear Sterns might cost that much.  Depending on how BlackRock Financial unwinds the portfolio, there is an outside chance the Fed might see a profit on the deal, and even though a net loss is probable, the actual net loss is likely to be considerably less than the $29B. 


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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 7:06:10 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		You may have a point with Iraq....but not Afghanistan. The Taliban deserved to be smashed and overthrown. They did help Al-Queda attack the United States on September 11th and they refused to stop helping Al-Queda after the attack. They had nearly a month to hand over Bin Ladin and Al-Queda leaders and they refused. And no other country was willing to help them so they got slaughtered.

Now even the Russians are helping NATO by allowing a new supply line to go through their territory to supply NATO troops in Afghanistan.

Very few people think the US war against Afghanistan is illegal. VERY few... Only 2 congressmen in the United States voted against the Afghan war. And nobody in either party is talking about ending that operation. Afghanistan is going to continue for many, many, many years.

Iraq though is another debate....

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 7:08:19 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline 		Wars on inanimate objects and emotions, naw, couldn’t be.
 
I wish people would stop grouping the government with the people, and the people with the goal, no wonder multiculturalism isn’t working.
 
The people aren’t rocket scientist, but its okay, this isn’t rocket science.
 
k

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 9:44:54 PM   
Shekicromaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: abrown28
Except for overthrowing the Taliban, destroying Saddams regime and promoting (hopefuly) a democratic and free society in a region that is sorely lacking in those qualities... you're 100% correct. Congratulations.


Hmm is it only me to find the idea of enforcing freedom a little.. strange? 
Democracy enforced and maintained form outside is a mockery of it’s own principles.  

Anyway interesting is this relativisation of “God given” democratic ideals as you go from one part of the middle east to another.. let’s say Saudi Arabia.. as an important US partner in the region.

Don’t take this wrong, though as most people I’m not exactly a fan of the bully attitude in US international politics especially with this administration (though I’m not sure there would be so much difference in practical decisions as in the image with  a different one) I’d rather have the states in this role than for example China.  Actually if there is a threat in the future I see it in China much more than in any Islamic state.  

The interests of the US might be more often than not the same as those of most other western countries, but it is interests we are talking about, not some great ideals which are probably long left behind as one gets seriously and professionally into politics.


< Message edited by Shekicromaster -- 4/5/2008 9:49:15 PM >

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/5/2008 10:59:18 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
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quote:


So now we have the War on Terror, which pretty much does nothing but hire airport-prison guards.



Black is white. War is now peace. Enslavement is freedom. And the most ludicrous of all.....we have to kill people in order to set them free and give them democracy.

Whether you interpret the writings of the neocon's chief philosophers Leo Strauss and Allan Bloom or you've partaken in just a causal read or Orwell's classic ‘‘1984’’, the one thing that's very consistent is that the concept of ''perpetual war'' is essential to maintaining a state of oligarchical rule.

So they can call it the ’’war on terror'', the ''war on radical Islam'' or the ''war on drugs'' but let’s face it.....the ''real'' war isn't being conducted against a foreign foe, but against the indigenous population, instead.







- R



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-General George S. Patton


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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 1:49:13 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
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From: Albany, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: abrown28

quote:

So now we have the War on Terror, which pretty much does nothing but hire airport-prison guards.

Except for overthrowing the Taliban,


FWIW, the Taliban, despite being pieces of shit -- DID shutdown Afghanistan's poppy crop/harvest/opium/heroin production -- and the US *did* occupy Afghanistan in Nov 2003 JUST IN TIME to get that year's crop in the ground.

Dope == Poverty.

POVERTY == SLAVERY.

So that would seem to support hypothesis that the "War on Terror" is the "War on Drugs" in just a different suit.

quote:


destroying Saddams regime


Which had, according to the PENTAGON, *nothing* to do with Al Quaeda.

But *did* have a lot to do with running away from the bases in Saudi Arabia -- As Ordered

quote:


and promoting (hopefuly) a democratic and free society in a region that is sorely lacking in those qualities... you're 100% correct. Congratulations.


RIGHT.

When HAMAS was "freely and democratically" ELECTED to represent the palestinians, how did that work out?

That's what I call the "Necocon-Kumbaya" theory. And it's *exactly* as dissociated from reality as it sounds.

Only a crazy religious fundamentalist could fall for the scam that everyone will get together, pass around the hash pipe and sing Kumbaya togetether IF ONLY WE COULD INVADE THEM AND "Civilize" them.

De Da White Mons Burden.

Fucking Racist Neocon Crazies....



< Message edited by farglebargle -- 4/6/2008 1:53:09 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 2:12:00 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

I wish people would stop grouping the government with the people, and the people with the goal, no wonder multiculturalism isn’t working.
 


Members of the government are raised in the same society as "the people". Where the government are corrupt, it follows they're a product of a corrupt society.

In any case, if these corrupt politicians do not represent the people, why aren't capable, honest, upstanding members of "the people" stepping forward as candidates to run the country?

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 7:06:38 AM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
Joined: 6/2/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Members of the government are raised in the same society as "the people". Where the government are corrupt, it follows they're a product of a corrupt society.


There are those who are participants in the rat race, and those who manage the rat race; the motives for each are hardly the same.

quote:

In any case, if these corrupt politicians do not represent the people, why aren't capable, honest, upstanding members of "the people" stepping forward as candidates to run the country?


There are lots of reasons, problem is, until the people are joined under the concept of “liberty and justice for all”, I am doubtful anything will work.

k

< Message edited by charmdpetKeira -- 4/6/2008 7:07:10 AM >

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There is no wrong choice, only consequence.

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 7:16:06 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

I wish people would stop grouping the government with the people, and the people with the goal, no wonder multiculturalism isn’t working.
 


Members of the government are raised in the same society as "the people". Where the government are corrupt, it follows they're a product of a corrupt society.



Perhaps you ought to rethink this or are you saying you are corrupt?

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 8:18:45 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

There are those who are participants in the rat race, and those who manage the rat race; the motives for each are hardly the same.
 

 
I don't think so, Keira.
 
Your inference being that people don't have a choice in these matters. There's a thread in the Gorean section where I was asked to explain what I meant when posting there are certain advantages to denying freedom. This a good example: "it's not the people; it's the government". In my view, this point of view is nonsensical and amounts to a get out of jail free card. People elect the government; people stand by and watch the establishment run amok - in other words, people get the system they deserve.

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

There are lots of reasons, problem is, until the people are joined under the concept of “liberty and justice for all”, I am doubtful anything will work.



Well, I'm of the view that were the majority primarily concerned with honour, they'd elect an honourable government. Perhaps what really matters to the people is food on the table and a few gadgets here and there - at any cost.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 9:00:30 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

There's no clearer example of the United States' failure to construct effective policy than Richard Nixon's Drug War, which pretty much does nothing but hire prison guards...

So now we have the War on Terror, which pretty much does nothing but hire airport-prison guards.

Are the *same* people profiting, I wonder?


Yup, we're attacked on 9/11 and what does the govt. do?
Why form another giant beaurocracy with people sitting at desks writing things on papers.
Meanwhile the Mexican border is wide open.
But, our govt. chides Pakistan for having, "too pourous borders."
What we have in govt. is a total lack of olde fashioned common sense.
Most of the cocaine comes from Colombia but Bush is trying to push through a new "trade deal" with them! I mean WTF!

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 12:03:08 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		CharmdPetkeria.  "There are lots of reasons, problem is, until the people are joined under the concept of “liberty and justice for all”, I am doubtful anything will work."
 

Actually if you could get everyone to rally around any concrete set of ideas things would start working.  Doesn't matter what the set of idea is. If everyone agreed things would be great.  The classic Hundu society ran for a very long time, with its class distinctions, but people believed and were happy with it.  The untouchables did not spend much time plotting the reform of society, they just lived thier lives. 
 
There are pages and pages of discussion on these threads, about the meanings of both those terms "liberty" and "justice".  They are not concrete ideas.  There are such widley differing views on what they mean, that they really have no meaning.  Liberty and Justice for some would mean hard communism, others a full capitalism, Sharia is by definiton Liberty and Justice.  And at some point in implementation you will find that Justice for some will require a loss of Liberty for others, and the opposite also, Liberty for some will mean a loss of Justice for others.

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 1:55:31 PM   
charmdpetKeira


Posts: 916
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I don't think so, Keira.
 
Your inference being that people don't have a choice in these matters. There's a thread in the Gorean section where I was asked to explain what I meant when posting there are certain advantages to denying freedom. This a good example: "it's not the people; it's the government". In my view, this point of view is nonsensical and amounts to a get out of jail free card. People elect the government; people stand by and watch the establishment run amok - in other words, people get the system they deserve.


It’s the people and the government, for two different reasons. Many of the people still believe that the government is here for them, that they are doing the best they can. Others do not believe what they do matters, so don’t even bother. The list goes on…
Of course, the real problem here is the simple fact; having a government completely negates the idea of democracy.

My response was in light of the fact that you can’t take someone from where I grew up, throw them in a place like NY, and expect them to know exactly what to do, and the whole country is divided like that, by terrain, population, income, and a few other things.
To say those who are raised to be in government, live in the same type of society as the average citizen, is like saying; anyone in the royal family knows what it is like to be you, because you live on the same chunk of land.   

quote:

Well, I'm of the view that were the majority primarily concerned with honour, they'd elect an honourable government. Perhaps what really matters to the people is food on the table and a few gadgets here and there - at any cost.


Perhaps there is confusion as to what the word honor means.
 
I’m more of the mind that we should be concentrating on responsibility.
 
Why are Americans considered a whole different race? Do people not get the idea, it is just a large sampling of the majority of the different types of races that can be found on this planet?
 
To be honest, if people on these boards did not leave clues as to where they are from, in most cases, I wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.
 
k

< Message edited by charmdpetKeira -- 4/6/2008 1:56:07 PM >

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RE: Is "war on terrror" just a coverup for po... - 4/6/2008 2:07:12 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
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quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

To say those who are raised to be in government, live in the same type of society as the average citizen, is like saying; anyone in the royal family knows what it is like to be you, because you live on the same chunk of land.   



If we stand by and watch a monarchy at the head of our country, we deserve all we get. That's my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira

Why are Americans considered a whole different race? 



I don't, Keira. I mentioned the US because of the OP and most on here are from the US. I could quite easily have applied this to England.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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