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"Flinching" - 5/15/2007 8:55:49 AM

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

Dear Dominant Sisters (and the slaves who love them),

I have a very loving relationship with both of My boys. I can be a sadist at times, but they both love it and say it heightens the experience. I tend to be someone who starts light and increases the intensity, whether it's an actual scene or just an everyday activity that I want to make memorable. My thinking is that you can always slow down or stop, but once you've crossed that unpleasant threshhold, you can never take it back, and My goal is always to draw us closer, not drive them from fear.

Yesterday My toad went to work for the first time with his jewels bound. I could hear his submission was deep every time I spoke to him by phone. I was wicked, saying things to him that were guaranteed to make him erect and therefore tightening the cord. He loved it, and as always I loved having that impact upon him.

Last night, when he got home, we went into the office for Me to inspect him and remove the cord. I was speaking to him like you would a small animal (this guy is 6'5" and huge, okay?), gentling him so I could probe his thinking easier and decide how often this activity could be used without making it mundane.

I reached up to softly pat his thigh and he gave this full-body flinch with fear in his whole expression. I didn't move quickly, or do anything to cause him pain, yet he reacted like I had. I found Myself withdrawing immediately behind a wall so he would not see the turmoil of emotions in My eyes. I didn't want him to feel guilty or that he was under any pressure from Me. I acted as if the inspection was over, and thank goodness "dinnertime" was called and we went to eat dinner. He avoided Me all evening... I didn't know how to approach him without just spilling in an emotional dump, and that would have been the wrong thing to do.

He has since approached Me, begged forgiveness (what for????) and promised that he trusts Me, and that he doesn't know WHY he flinched.

Does anyone have similar experiences? I'm unsure what to feel at this point, because I would cut off an arm rather than truly harm or abuse him...

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 9:16:15 AM

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

I've been in many situations where new experiences, such as the intense feels you gave him, create primal feelings in a person. The body and mind are very wierd, and when you tinker with them, (and you did tinker) you can create amazing things. I wouldn't worry about it. Some subdown time might be in order, but other than that he will be fine.

I've caught myself growling at wild dogs after a long and exhausting run. It could also be a moment of clarity, or sobering experience. People can be put into trances. It's quite prominent during tattooing, particularly primal stuff where the action is hundreds of needle stabs. These people need to be restrained while they come out of the haze. People who engage in suspension can probably tell you about trances in those scenes. If it continues, there is reason to worry... for now, set your mind at ease.

Edit: There's an "m" in "them"

< Message edited by HeavansKeeper -- 5/15/2007 9:17:06 AM >

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 9:20:39 AM

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

Thank you, you make very good points. I was abused as a small child, and used to flich even until I was in late teens, so I saw what happened through My own experience base - one reason I'm asking for input.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 9:26:51 AM

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

When I read that I got the feeling that maybe he was not necessarily scared of you. Maybe he was scared of the intensity of what it was you brought out in him, somehting that may have been unexpected. He may not yet have had time to reconcile that and needed some space to regroup. He may have been concentrating on what he was feeling, even subconsiously, and your touch jolted him. Maybe that also added to his embarassment thus the avoidance.

My advice is to not over think it but to keep checking in with him. Perhaps cool that form of play for a little while until you are more comfortable that everything is fine. I don't think there's anything to worry about though at this point.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 9:35:11 AM

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

You mention cooling that form of play... he is asking for more and I am trying to decide if it is true interest or if he is trying to prove something because of the flinch.

I love him and want him to be happy and whole.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 11:13:28 AM

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

You mention cooling that form of play... he is asking for more and I am trying to decide if it is true interest or if he is trying to prove something because of the flinch.

I love him and want him to be happy and whole.

Perhaps you want to "set him up for sucess", so that he can feel better about what happened. A sub needs to feel like he has pleased his Mistress, accomplished a task, or passed a test that has been set by the one he serves. I don't know exactly how you bound his testicles, but I frequently wear CBT devices of all sorts for the entire day. Some are made such that they are comfortable enough, yet stimulating enough for that type of wear. If you can reduce the intensity of the discomfort that your bindings of his testicles cause by a bit, I'd suggest you try it with him again. That will give him a chance to show you (and himself) that he can make it through the day with your delightful teasing without being overstressed.

Doing so will give him a sense of accomplishment that will make him feel better about the first experience where he perhaps feels he disappointed you because of his reaction that caused you to withdraw from him at the end of the day. He may have actually been quite stimulated, although a bit tender, especially if he was not used to a lot of extended form of this play. If the latter is the case, I suggest you use the weekends to help him build up to spending longer time periods in your bindings.

The tension from the stimulation, and normal bit of tenderness from extended play, is what likely caused the flinch. I'd suspect that your subsequent withdrawal was emotionally painful for him after the intensity of the build-up from the teasing throughout the day. That was probably very disappointing, or so I'd think. I know it would have been for me.

If I'd have had a problem from the experience, I'd have at least wanted aftercare. If that was the case, I think you may have let him down in that regard.

As such, it sounds in part to me, as though the two of you should discuss what happened in more detail and what the experience was like for him throughout his day at work before you proceed again. If it was inded an overall positive experience, give him another chance and "set him up for success" by helping him build up to increasing intensity and longer periods of time in the form of restraint for his testicles that you wish to use.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 2:08:23 PM

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

You make some very good points... I will try to make things a bit more comfortable for him and see how that goes.

By the way, how were the resources I sent ya?

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to pixelslave)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 2:19:52 PM

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

Wow...thanks for sharing this post. I have no useful information, I'm afraid...but I will read more to learn more. I can't recall a time that this happened to me but I feel your feelings in my gut and my heart goes out to you...*this topic scares me as I would not know what to do either* It would appear we are quite similar in our attitudes and my best "it's never happened to me" reply is, trust that he knows his need and if he wants to move forward do so...but maybe slower? God...I could be so far wrong here...I will ponder this for days and days....Good Luck!

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 4:39:28 PM

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

I mean no offense to the OP here, but I think you might be reading to much into this. I think we (men) tend to internalize our feelings more out of habit. I absolutely enjoy being scared and intimidated. It is a huge rush to have that feeling, but it is hard to verbalize why I find pleasure in those feelings. I really think women tend to be much better at this than we are. Y'all have a lot more practice with doing this than most of us do. I can't speak for your boy, but I still have that subconcious sense of shame at feeling pleasure in being subjected and humiliated. It takes a little bit of time to work through the feelings and sensations of a new experience.

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 5/15/2007 4:51:59 PM >

(in reply to earthycouple)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 4:46:28 PM

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

Dear slaveboyforyou, I wondered if maybe I was reading too much, analyzing it... but HE also took it to a very negative vein as well, which made Me worry more. I know that being proactive is sometimes more than reacting, so I'm asking for input... thank you for your insight.

Earthycouple, I must admit, I'm kind of blue today as a result. I was flying high on his excitement and then "boom" it all dropped to the ground with a thud. Thanks for the kind words.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 5:24:45 PM

Posts: 2479
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra
I reached up to softly pat his thigh and he gave this full-body flinch with fear in his whole expression. I didn't move quickly, or do anything to cause him pain, yet he reacted like I had. I found Myself withdrawing immediately behind a wall so he would not see the turmoil of emotions in My eyes. I didn't want him to feel guilty or that he was under any pressure from Me. I acted as if the inspection was over, and thank goodness "dinnertime" was called and we went to eat dinner. He avoided Me all evening... I didn't know how to approach him without just spilling in an emotional dump, and that would have been the wrong thing to do.

He has since approached Me, begged forgiveness (what for????) and promised that he trusts Me, and that he doesn't know WHY he flinched.

My first thought was "Codependent Death Spiral"... meaning, the actual flinch meant a lot less to him than it did to you- what actually upset him was the way that it immediately made you back away from him, and changed the dynamic from D/s / aftercare to avoidance. That reaction made his behavior "bad", and now he's trying to fix the turmoil that he feels he caused with the flinch. If you now back away from CBT play when he's telling you that it's not a problem, IMO that denial will be perceived as more punishment.

Just my nickel worth of psychotherapy... FWIW, i flinch violently at having my bare back touched when i'm not expecting it, regardless of mood or setting, and have no idea why.

...dave

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 7:25:49 PM

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

When my endorphins are flowing and I am at the peak of excitement it makes my nerve impulses hyperexcitable. This is from the adrenaline and noriepinephrine. It can make nerve and muscle impulses hyperexcitable. He may not have intended it to be as much of a strong response as it was. It may just been a biological response that was over exagerrated by things going on in his body.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 7:42:43 PM

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

By the way, how were the resources I sent ya?

Gosh, I never received them!

I guess now I know why... Otherwise, I'd have surely been polite enough to have acknowledged their receipt and thanked you for being so gracious as to have sent them.

If you would be so kind, would you mind resending them please?

Perhaps there's been a problem with CM's message system again. It's been known to have it's kink's like the rest of us!

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 10:21:12 PM

Posts: 7
Joined: 4/5/2007
Status: offline

Hello Mystress, and All the people that have taken time to reply,

I first want to start off by posting some quotes that do sort of fit the situation, then address each one, please bear with me :

When I read that I got the feeling that maybe he was not necessarily scared of you. Maybe he was scared of the intensity of what it was you brought out in him, somehting that may have been unexpected. " MsKatHouston "

This applies in the observation of intensity.

pixel makes several closely accurate observations through his entire post, about tenderness of the area, and emotions on both parts.

While Mystress was examining me, Her attentions were causing some minor discomfort because of being tender at being bound on the testicles and penis for the entire day with yarn, with some erect happenings during lunch caused by my arrousal and focus on Her, and the drive to and from work almost had me pulling over to walk around for a few minutes. During lunch, my arrousal was increased at the unexpectedness of added attention into a new area of curiousity as well, and this was explored in minor detail at home, while She was examining me. I was in a very relaxed, almost trance-like state, very focused on Her face, and while i did see her hand moving, heard Her voice in a calm and playful tone, i flinched when i did not notice Her hand almost to my face, even though it was in full sight of me at all times. I IMMEDIATELY slammed myself down in forced locked, upright position, but i could already see the damage was done, even though She tried to mask it. All i wanted to do was drop to the floor and cry, beg at Her feet, for another chance, but i didn't feel it would have changed anything at that time. In my mind, i was literally kicking myself for flinching, not because of how i felt, but how it made Her feel, i'm her slave, my feelings come second to our relationship, what matters to me most, is Her feelings and desires. She has worked with me in the beginning, to rid me of that jerk reaction of being hit, or touched, tied to a cross, and blindfolded, so that i could not see what was coming, and that night ( several months ago ) was the LAST time ( before last night ) that i flinched or jerked. I can only summise that it was the trance state, relaxed enough to remain focused yet enjoy the feelings of Her tugging on my scrotum and testing the tenderness, that didn't allow me to fully keep aware of Her exact hand position over my body, and when i became aware of it ( seemingly very near my beard, another place i like Her tugging ), that was the time that i flinched. My ex-wife had hit me for years for making her mad, yet i never had any, nor do i see any abuse coming from Mystress, and i did approach Her to explain as best as i could. The aftercare, to me, was Her tugging and administering Her affections while i stood there and enjoyed my focus on Her control over my body. When She says She'd rather cut Her arm off, i believe She would do that and more, to convince me that Her intention was not abuse, my trust in Her is absolute, and un-wavering. I've trusted Her with several knives at my throat and other areas of my body, not play knives, real sharp.. cut your skin if you rest against the blade, split hair in two sharp, floggers, and now CBT, which until yesterday, was something i was fairly sure i would not enjoy at all, let alone wear to work. She has since placed a new bondage peice on me, and it is more comfortable, and i'm grateful that everyone has not only given some excellent advice in Her time of need, but that everyone has helped convince Her to try once more to help me grow in my service to Her desires and pleasures. I am of the opinion that internalizing feelings is not conducive to a healthy relationship, yet the first instinct when i feel someone is mad or hurt, is to give them space for a time, then approach to talk when things are more calm. In retrospect, this may not be a good tatic, because it could lead right back to hurt or anger, before being worked out, and the next logical response would be to just work it out before it cools. When She asks me how i feel about any activity, i do try to be as thorough in answering Her, so that She will be as informed as i can help Her to be. Thank you for helping answer Her question.

toad[MystC]
House of Phoenix
Athens, Ga

(in reply to pixelslave)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/15/2007 10:57:27 PM

Posts: 4462
Joined: 2/19/2006
Status: offline

Thank you so much for your post. I'm appreciative.

_____________________________

D~

Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to toadMystC)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/16/2007 1:20:26 AM

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

It's the "gift of the Magi" baby, all over again...

I move to protect your feelings, you move to protect Mine. I love you and I know that I am sometimes intense when I am asking for answers... I wanted to spare you that last night. When you came to Me, I wanted to talk and I was glad you did... ~smiles~

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to toadMystC)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/16/2007 4:53:20 AM

Posts: 469
Joined: 9/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

Dear slaveboyforyou, I wondered if maybe I was reading too much, analyzing it... but HE also took it to a very negative vein as well, which made Me worry more. I know that being proactive is sometimes more than reacting, so I'm asking for input... thank you for your insight.

Earthycouple, I must admit, I'm kind of blue today as a result. I was flying high on his excitement and then "boom" it all dropped to the ground with a thud. Thanks for the kind words.

I'm thinking since he was in intense head space, he was jarred back into reality rather than gradually. My suggestion would be that you voice your intentions or give him some indication of what might happen afterward, in respect to being bound . . . just to regain the trust you think you might have lost.

How do you know he didnt like the experience? Some like the rush.

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/16/2007 5:22:27 AM

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Joined: 4/5/2007
Status: offline

Mystress, i did LOVE the experience over the whole day, the feeling of focus and service was so intense, the extra added things at lunch was very good to feel ( even if it was hurting some, the pain was driving the experience for me ), and the inspection was even nice, with the tugging in different directions.. etc. When i flinched, and saw the result not only in Your eyes, but on Your whole body, there was no masking it from me, even though You tried. You can be very intense about answers, but it is something i'm becoming aware of as a good thing because it gives me a real chance to explain in detail just how things affect me, or my views/attitudes, and i find the challenge to be more thorough is actually nice.

I do love You, more than i have ever loved anyone, and that does make me feel secure, and scared as well, because i don't know how deep it can go, and i'm anxious/excited to find out, and just as excited to explore with You everything that You want to show me. I want to soak up every experience i can, and You literally leave me panting for more, even though i feel confused by all the new emotions i feel. I am in Love with You Mystress.

toad[MystC]
House of Phoenix
Athens, Ga

(in reply to Calandra)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/16/2007 5:26:21 AM

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

Awww...y'all are sweet. I think this love stuff is too much for me, though, first thing in the morning. ;)

Kidding...sounds like you have it all in order and this would be a good lesson for anyone who is having issues...communicate.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to toadMystC)

RE: "Flinching" - 5/16/2007 10:12:13 AM

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

Awesome posts toad! Thanks for sharing them with us. It was very enlightening to hear what happened that day from your perspective. I also found it especially heart warming to also see that things got worked out in a loving manner through the excellent communication that occurred between you and your Mistress.

Thank you both for sharing your experience and journey in this lifestyle with us.

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to toadMystC)

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