"S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus"

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Vendaval -> "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/17/2007 5:51:19 PM)
"S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" By Seanna Adox, AP Writer Coumbia, S.C., May 16, 2007 " To prevent school shootings, some South Carolina legislators want more guns on campuses. A House subcommittee approved a measure Wednesday that would allow concealed weapon permit holders to carry guns onto public school campuses, from elementary schools to universities. Supporters say having trained and armed gun owners in schools could prevent massacres like the April 16 shootings at Virginia Tech, where one armed student killed 32 people. Only Utah currently has a law allowing concealed weapons on campuses. "We're not talking about kids. We're talking about responsible adults," said Republican Rep. Jeff Duncan, who sponsored the bill. Opponents fear more guns will mean more accidental shootings, and questioned if colleges were an appropriate environment for guns. "I'm concerned about more guns around younger people combined with emotions and sometimes alcohol," said Rep. Doug Jennings, a Democrat. "I don't think it's a proper reaction to the Virginia Tech tragedy." The bill heads to the House Judiciary Committee, though it is not expected to pass the Legislature before its scheduled adjournment for the year next month. Gov. Mark Sanford, a Republican, said he hadn't yet thought about the bill. Nationwide, 37 states ban weapons at schools. Of those, 16 explicitly prohibit weapons on college campuses, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. College police chiefs across South Carolina said allowing guns on campuses would make it difficult to pinpoint a criminal. "Today, if we respond, we know the person with the weapon is the bad guy," said Ernest Ellis, the law enforcement director at the University of South Carolina. To obtain a concealed weapon permit in South Carolina, a resident must be at least 21, undergo at least eight hours of handgun training, and pass criminal and mental background checks. " http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3180684

Real0ne -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/17/2007 6:00:48 PM)
utah a nice grass roots state! listen to the assholes that think laws can "protect" people LMAO

popeye1250 -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/17/2007 6:01:14 PM)
I think it's a good thing and if that school is accepting Taxdollars from the state it should be a given anyway! I'll contact my state rep and senator and tell them to vote yes.

petdave -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/17/2007 7:53:59 PM)
Good deal. Now when the hell are we going to get a "51%" law passed so that i can carry in a friggin' restaurant, already?

HutchGarahl -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/17/2007 9:16:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" By Seanna Adox, AP Writer Coumbia, S.C., May 16, 2007 I just saw this on the news. I agree with doing it. While it may or may not stop school shootings, noone knows that for sure...it just might stop so many from getting killed if students were able to protect themselves. I'd like to see this law in every state to be honest. quote: Now when the hell are we going to get a "51%" law passed so that i can carry in a friggin' restaurant, already? I do carry into restaurants. And the people who work there know I carry, just noone can see what I carry.[8D] I even carried into our local courthouse one day. Sherrif stopped me and asked if I had my gun on me, I said what do you think. He just kind of grinned. Sometimes it's nice living in a little town where everyone knows everyone. [;)]

UtopianRanger -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 12:34:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne utah a nice grass roots state! listen to the assholes that think laws can "protect" people LMAO I'll tell ya what, up here in Oregon, I'm so used to seeing people with a side arm on their belt in public, I don't even give it a second thought anymore. We haven't had anyone go postal in the nearly ten years I've been here.[;)] - R

HutchGarahl -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 2:27:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne utah a nice grass roots state! listen to the assholes that think laws can "protect" people LMAO I'll tell ya what, up here in Oregon, I'm so used to seeing people with a side arm on their belt in public, I don't even give it a second thought anymore. We haven't had anyone go postal in the nearly ten years I've been here.[;)] It's the same here. Every other person you see carries a visible weapon. Unfortunately, i've got to the point that sometimes I no longer believe the law protects people. People protect people. - R

MasterDesire -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 3:00:58 AM)
A interesting subject. Will allowing more guns on campus or on people stop the few that are intent on making a name for them selves? You have to remember one thing the gun is only the object that allows someone to act out their intent. The internet of the person with the gun is the problem. The fact that I or you carry a side arm is not the issue. The issue is the person that has the intent and the desire to make a name for themselves on national news. If the new would stop covering the incidents I feel there would be far less of a me too attitude. So many people feel that I want to be remembered in some way. They feel that they are alone or different that the main stream public so they act out in their own way. A person can be the most stable law abiding person there is and one incident can set them off. Where their intent is killing one or many. I don't know how many have every had a gun pointed at you and thought you life would end. Working in the past in law enforcement gives you a totally different look on things. Even our officers are subject today as a normal citizen would be if they shoot someone to being sued by the person family or actions of a review board. I see so many talk I carry a gun. Well that is well and good, but under a true situation would you be able to get to it for number one and two use it to kill someone. You may say yes, but it is not as easy as you think. The carrying of a side arm is a personal thing for each of us to think about. It does not make you macho or better than the next person. Yes it give you a chance to defend yourself. But also gives you the chance to make a wrong choice as well. I can promise you one thing the average person will not be standing there wanting to confront a armed person. The worse nightmare for most officers is the use of his or her sidearm. It is not easy to take a life. Also if you are the one that takes the life of another will it be justified or will it be another person trying to stop a incident and you shoot the wrong person. The more people with guns is as bad as one with a gun. Who is the bad guy and who is the good one. It makes the officers job just that much more difficult. Yes there are situation where maybe armed citizen would make a difference, but I believe that those are far and few in between. If you carry do it wisely.

Guilty1974 -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 3:10:56 AM)
Well, down here carrying arms is simply illegal.Yet to me it seems to be that we have less and less violent crime than you guys. We've had a teacher got shot by a student, but no spray killings. Violent robberies/hostage situations are rare here. Gang wars? Never seen ém. Perhaps, with crime rates as high as in the US I might feel a need to protect myself, but for the moment I think that more guns on the streets would only increase violent crime, not diminish it. Ok, in some streets in Amsterdam, you can get busted for carrying a pocket knife (and that has really happened). That's a bit over the top...

HutchGarahl -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 4:33:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterDesire A interesting subject. Will allowing more guns on campus or on people stop the few that are intent on making a name for them selves? Unfortunately, the answer to this is no. There will always be someone out there hell bent on doing this. You have to remember one thing the gun is only the object that allows someone to act out their intent. I've always said, guns don't kill, people kill. A gun won't go off unless a person makes it. The internet of the person with the gun is the problem. The fact that I or you carry a side arm is not the issue. The issue is the person that has the intent and the desire to make a name for themselves on national news. If the new would stop covering the incidents I feel there would be far less of a me too attitude. So many people feel that I want to be remembered in some way. They feel that they are alone or different that the main stream public so they act out in their own way. A person can be the most stable law abiding person there is and one incident can set them off. Where their intent is killing one or many. I don't know how many have every had a gun pointed at you and thought you life would end. I have, i've been shot. One reason I carry, the other reason....kids to protect. Working in the past in law enforcement gives you a totally different look on things. Even our officers are subject today as a normal citizen would be if they shoot someone to being sued by the person family or actions of a review board. I see so many talk I carry a gun. Well that is well and good, but under a true situation would you be able to get to it for number one and two use it to kill someone. While i've never killed someone, I have have shot someone. When your faced with someone holding a weapon, specially if you have kids, you do what neccessary to protect them and yourself. I'm not sure if I could ever kill...I can't see it happening. But, if I ever did...it would mean I had no other choice. I pray I never have to go to that extreme. You may say yes, but it is not as easy as you think. The carrying of a side arm is a personal thing for each of us to think about. It does not make you macho or better than the next person. Never sid it did. I just believe in protecting what's mine. Yes it give you a chance to defend yourself. But also gives you the chance to make a wrong choice as well. I can promise you one thing the average person will not be standing there wanting to confront a armed person. The worse nightmare for most officers is the use of his or her sidearm. It is not easy to take a life. Also if you are the one that takes the life of another will it be justified or will it be another person trying to stop a incident and you shoot the wrong person. The more people with guns is as bad as one with a gun. Who is the bad guy and who is the good one. It makes the officers job just that much more difficult. Yes there are situation where maybe armed citizen would make a difference, but I believe that those are far and few in between. If you carry do it wisely. I do. Normally, if confronted with violence, I would try other means to get out of it. But, if I see there is no other alternative, I will pull. The last person who point a gun at me was answered back with a gun, but only after I realized he wasn't gonna back down. I gave him two choices....drop and walk away or get shot. He walked away. Was arrested the next day for robbing a liquor store. quote: Ok, in some streets in Amsterdam, you can get busted for carrying a pocket knife (and that has really happened). That's a bit over the top. I agree....do you have a length law or does it cover any knife? Here we have a length law. Your allowed to carry a knife, but it can't extend beyond the length of your middle finger with the handle based at the palm of your hand...or simpler terms..blade is not to extend 3 inches. However...if you came to the town I live in, you will see people carrying knives well beyond that point. I myself can sometimes be seen with a military survival knife strapped to my leg with a blade that is nearly 12 inches. It's one reason why I like this little town so much. Plus the fact that most everyone here knows everyone and we all watch newcomers very close. It's more like a family here rather than a town. Very little happens here, specially crime. But when it does...there's more than just a police force, which is a total of about 6 people, to protect our townspeople.

meatcleaver -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 6:48:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guilty1974 Ok, in some streets in Amsterdam, you can get busted for carrying a pocket knife (and that has really happened). That's a bit over the top... The only reason to carry a weapon of any description in Amsterdam is for criminal intent. Didn't the 9/11 highjackers use package cutters? There are so many guns in American society they are beyond all control so you could legitimately argue for the need for a gun to defend oneself, that is not true of Holland. Most street crimes in the area I live are carried out with knives. That makes it sound common place but it isn't and it isn't common place because of police cracking down on all types of personal weapons.

Guilty1974 -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 10:53:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HutchGarahl I agree....do you have a length law or does it cover any knife? Here we have a length law. Regulations with regard to knives are a bit complex here I'm afraid. Generally speaking, we do have a length law. A short blade sharpened only on one side is legal, though there are some exceptions (some automatic knives, butterfly knives, etc.). This means I can legally own such a knive. However, it also basically illegal to carry arms, so you're not allowed to have anything with you (and that's the messy part) that's intended as a potential weapon. So for instance, a baseball bat in the trunk of your car would be no problem, but one next to the drivers seat might be. Same for the knife. My legally owned knife might be an illegal weapon if I have it my pocket, and just be a legally owned knife if it's down somewhere in my bag where I can't grab it instantaneously. So when I go out to a BDSM venue and need a knive for security reasons during suspension bondage, the knive goes in my bag, unavailable as a weapon when on the streets. BUT Amsterdam now decided by local regulations that in some areas ANY knive ANYWHERE is illegal. Which has allready resulted in a Swiss tourist getting a substantial fine for carrying a swiss pocket knife to make his sandwiches. Now I'm strongly in favour of arms-control, but that's over the top even in my humble opinion.

HutchGarahl -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 11:07:13 AM)
ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: The only reason to carry a weapon of any description in Amsterdam is for criminal intent. I find that hard to believe. Just because someone may have a pocket knife, doesn't mean they have it so they can slice someone's throat.[/quote quote: Regulations with regard to knives are a bit complex here I'm afraid. Generally speaking, we do have a length law. A short blade sharpened only on one side is legal, though there are some exceptions (some automatic knives, butterfly knives, etc.). This means I can legally own such a knive. However, it also basically illegal to carry arms, so you're not allowed to have anything with you (and that's the messy part) that's intended as a potential weapon. So for instance, a baseball bat in the trunk of your car would be no problem, but one next to the drivers seat might be. Same for the knife. My legally owned knife might be an illegal weapon if I have it my pocket, and just be a legally owned knife if it's down somewhere in my bag where I can't grab it instantaneously. So when I go out to a BDSM venue and need a knive for security reasons during suspension bondage, the knive goes in my bag, unavailable as a weapon when on the streets. So let me see if I got this....someone decides they're gonna rob and rape ya....your knife is in your purse, but you manage to retrive it, using it to protect yourself...yet you go to jail for illegally carrying? That's fucked up. BUT Amsterdam now decided by local regulations that in some areas ANY knive ANYWHERE is illegal. Which has allready resulted in a Swiss tourist getting a substantial fine for carrying a swiss pocket knife to make his sandwiches. Now I'm strongly in favour of arms-control, but that's over the top even in my humble opinion. Do you have boy/girl scouts in Amsterdam and if so...how do they handle survival training? One of the requirements for scouting is the safe use of a knife...training to be able to use a knife to build a makeshift shelter, they're used for cooking and other things. Well..least here in America.

Einzelganger -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 12:37:30 PM)
Well, it's already been proven, many times, that laws do not stop nuts with guns who are intent on killing people. Call it a 'gun free campus' all you want; if one kid walks in with a gun, he's suddenly the campus superpower, since he's the only person who's got one. Also, just an interesting fact: Utah, the only state where gun carry on campuses is currently allowed, has never had a successful (in the criminal's eyes) school shooting. Just a little food for thought... -Einzelgänger

Guilty1974 -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 12:56:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HutchGarahl So let me see if I got this....someone decides they're gonna rob and rape ya....your knife is in your purse, but you manage to retrive it, using it to protect yourself...yet you go to jail for illegally carrying? That's fucked up. Probably not. Self-defense is legal, as long as you use no disproportional violence. quote: Do you have boy/girl scouts in Amsterdam and if so...how do they handle survival training? One of the requirements for scouting is the safe use of a knife...training to be able to use a knife to build a makeshift shelter, they're used for cooking and other things. Well..least here in America. Well, I guess the (few) area's designated as a no-knifes-whatsoever zone aren't exacly the area's where a boyscout should be wandering with or without knife :-)

meatcleaver -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 12:58:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HutchGarahl quote: The only reason to carry a weapon of any description in Amsterdam is for criminal intent. I find that hard to believe. Just because someone may have a pocket knife, doesn't mean they have it so they can slice someone's throat.[/quote quote: Regulations with regard to knives are a bit complex here I'm afraid. Generally speaking, we do have a length law. A short blade sharpened only on one side is legal, though there are some exceptions (some automatic knives, butterfly knives, etc.). This means I can legally own such a knive. However, it also basically illegal to carry arms, so you're not allowed to have anything with you (and that's the messy part) that's intended as a potential weapon. So for instance, a baseball bat in the trunk of your car would be no problem, but one next to the drivers seat might be. Same for the knife. My legally owned knife might be an illegal weapon if I have it my pocket, and just be a legally owned knife if it's down somewhere in my bag where I can't grab it instantaneously. So when I go out to a BDSM venue and need a knive for security reasons during suspension bondage, the knive goes in my bag, unavailable as a weapon when on the streets. So let me see if I got this....someone decides they're gonna rob and rape ya....your knife is in your purse, but you manage to retrive it, using it to protect yourself...yet you go to jail for illegally carrying? That's fucked up. BUT Amsterdam now decided by local regulations that in some areas ANY knive ANYWHERE is illegal. Which has allready resulted in a Swiss tourist getting a substantial fine for carrying a swiss pocket knife to make his sandwiches. Now I'm strongly in favour of arms-control, but that's over the top even in my humble opinion. Do you have boy/girl scouts in Amsterdam and if so...how do they handle survival training? One of the requirements for scouting is the safe use of a knife...training to be able to use a knife to build a makeshift shelter, they're used for cooking and other things. Well..least here in America. I haven't noticed many boy scouts in my neighbourhood selling drugs lately or pimping, which are the two main ways of advertizing yourself to police and getting searched. I am also not aware of any tourists getting searched unless they are drunk or in search of drugs or doing something else to attract the attention of the police. I live in the centre of Amsterdam and I regularly see tourists sat around Dam Square making their lunch with a knife and I don't see police swooping down on them. The police are pretty realistic about who is a potential problem and who isn't.

SimplyMichael -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 1:57:48 PM)
Guilty1974, Sure but when was the last America saw a film producer murdered? What is the ethnic makeup of Holland? What is your social safety net like? How illegal are drugs? America's problem with violence has little to do with guns and every thing to do with social ills.

petdave -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 5:46:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guilty1974 Regulations with regard to knives are a bit complex here I'm afraid. Complex? Brother, that's NOTHING compared to U.S. firearms laws! [8D] As a U.S. citizen, it's my belief that everyone in Amsterdam is too high on marijuana to get violent with anyone, so your comparisons are meaningless! Meaningless! Sorry, it's been a long week.

JohnSteed1967 -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 10:41:12 PM)
From SC, and SC is so stupid that they tried to outlaw sex toys!!!

popeye1250 -> RE: "S.C. may OK concealed guns on campus" (5/18/2007 11:02:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Guilty1974 quote: ORIGINAL: HutchGarahl So let me see if I got this....someone decides they're gonna rob and rape ya....your knife is in your purse, but you manage to retrive it, using it to protect yourself...yet you go to jail for illegally carrying? That's fucked up. Probably not. Self-defense is legal, as long as you use no disproportional violence. quote: Do you have boy/girl scouts in Amsterdam and if so...how do they handle survival training? One of the requirements for scouting is the safe use of a knife...training to be able to use a knife to build a makeshift shelter, they're used for cooking and other things. Well..least here in America. Well, I guess the (few) area's designated as a no-knifes-whatsoever zone aren't exacly the area's where a boyscout should be wandering with or without knife :-) That's funny, "use no disproportional violence?" How do you know or not if the guy's going to kill you after he takes your money? You don't so you kill him first.

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