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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 7:15:07 AM   
pashafewj


Posts: 54
Joined: 4/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie
It is good to know yourself so well :).

Good morning BeingChewsie :-)
Pasha did not come to this knowledge of herself without walking thru fire first. When she first discovered her submission, she called it a need. But this girl's spiritual path deeply rooted in the Tao, has taught her many things in regards to wants and needs, her experience with past Masters and Dominants, as well as her Mentor, Loki. The desire to surrender is so great, one could consider it a need, however...pasha knows that if she never is given the priviledge to be owned, she will still survive and still manage to find beauty in this world. This is how she classifies needs, wants and desires~

quote:

By being owned, I am ultimately serving myself. Doing what feels *right as rain* for me. Owned is right as rain, I need that. I could take a pass on being at his whim 24/7/365..all the time. It is why I remind myself so often "Think from your knees, girl". I know, revoke my slave membership, I'm a bad, bad seed. I absolutely understand when edana says "I need this but I don't want it ." 

The most important "pearl" that pasha has found is that "slavery" is as unique as each slave and there is no one way or one definition to be a slave. Yes, there are many accepted/recognised basics but all slaves "dance" to the rhythym in their own hearts first before they weave that in to the Masters ...that is the real beauty of each individual slave and the reason a slave searches for the "right" Master. One who can reach in and tap that inner beauty and bring it to the surface in the form of exquisite service. Ofcourse you are not a bad seed, you are beautiful :-)
 
pasha would also say here, she knows she thinks and writes in a way some might think of as "romantisizing". she would like to explain this...all her life, pasha looked at the mundane and necessary with disdain - hurry and get the drudgery over with so the more pleasurable things could be enjoyed. She has totally changed this outlook to life and in "service". Any task in what ever realm is a priviledge to be able to do... so many are not able and she now appreciates such simple things. When she provides service for a Dominant, she strives to bring beauty to whatever task, whether an errand or task to the more enjoyable bath and massage. It is a "mindset" she constantly strives for - she does not argue that not all things can be done in this manner when talking "real life" but it is in the desire to give each act in the beauty of surrender and in the moment that she works towards. pasha does not expect to be understood here about this...again much of this comes from a Taoist influence and more recently, her training with Loki. she only mentions it because she would like it known that her feet are rooted in reality...even if her spirit believes in the impossible :-)

pasha does know herself, enough to know there is even more she does not know~

_____________________________

far-sæla,
pasha

“How does one become a butterfly?" she asked. "You must want to fly so much that you are willing to give up being a caterpillar.”


(in reply to BeingChewsie)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 9:36:47 AM   
Najakcharmer


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Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti
I feel all women in their heart of hearts are all slaves to men, in one fashion or another, for the simple fact that our desires, Free and slave, is to be pleasing and a comforting asset to our respected Gorean men.
Please take a look at my signiture qoute and really give it a ponder. I feel it says it all.

"Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them."


*blinks*  So lesbians don't actually exist?

I think in general most people would prefer to have other people be happy to see them than otherwise.   I have no interest in women except as friends and colleagues, but if I walked into a room full of women and they were joyful to see me, I'd be generally more pleased than if I was ignored or actively avoided.  I imagine a man would be even more pleased to be joyfully greeted by a room full of women. 

A lesbian walking into a room of men would have the same experience I would walking into a room of women.  On a friendly social level, of course she'd rather be recieved pleasantly than hatefully.  But the deep seated dynamic you're talking about would be absent.  Individual temperments also vary, with some individuals being more socially submissive, more interested in being accepted and liked by others, and more willing to modify their appearance and demeanor to please others.

What you're talking about is not just a pleasant social reception, but being found pleasing by a dominant who is, on some level, potentially your dominant.  It's a D/s dynamic and make no mistake, though it can be well hidden in subtle social interactions in modern society.  It's that little thrill a submissive gets when a dominant acknowledges even by a look or a glance that they are pleasing.  The funny thing is that like most D/s interactions, it definitely isn't the exclusive property of submissive heterosexual women and dominant heterosexual men.  Submissive men feel it too, both gay and straight, and submissive women who are oriented only towards other women also experience it. 

None of this stuff is particularly relevant to Gor, but when you make statements that involve the rest of the world (eg, "all women") then that's who you're talking about. 

< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 5/24/2007 9:39:03 AM >

(in reply to Maahsatti)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 9:47:28 AM   
edana


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Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

pasha believes her true needs are life supporting in nature and all else is wants and desires. she also feels if she serves a Master because of her "need" to serve, she is ultimately serving  herself ~


Hello pasha,
 
I think Sue replied perfectly to your statement above.  To add to that, to strive to be less self-serving and more giving of yourself is indeed a noble cause, and one many of us work toward.  Perhaps you can share some of your efforts to become so. =)
 
In this regard I feel that recognizing the need to be owned is simply being honest with oneself.   The reality of slavery is hard, and on some level (different for each of us) goes against a competing desire to make our own decisions.   Peering deep within and pulling out the truth of the need is when that choice to submit becomes solidified.


_____________________________

In service,

edana

"Discipline turns talent into ability"

(in reply to pashafewj)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 10:30:46 AM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		patina, no. I read all the Gor books as a teenager. Wonderful escapist fantasy, especially for a shy, totally backward when it came to girls kid. But the philosophy is fiction, pure and simple. The idea that any woman can be kidnapped, and her abductor is so sexually masterful that she cannot help but want to be his pleasure slave is ridiculous.

I mean no disrespect to you, and I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. Those who have chosen to pursue the Gorean lifestyle, making the fiction as real as real life can be; there is nothing wrong with that at all.

I also disagree that attractive women that are attracted to jerks proves there is something to the Gorean way. There is no correlation between the two at all.

Attractive women are so used to being fawned upon by most men just because of their looks that it actually becomes an annoyance. The jerk intrigues her, not because he is powerful, but because he is one guy who is totally unimpressed with her looks. Not that he doesn't think she isn't attractive, rather that his needs are the most important thing in his life. So many women see this and mistake it for strength, almost always to their detriment.

Namaste, Sir Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to patina)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 11:06:17 AM   
Kuldan


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		There are also those, Dominic, that will place their needs first, but at the same time make the effort to understand, and meet their partners (slaves) needs - which creates a fit in such a case when the slave needs to be owned, controlled, dominated, and the Master needs the opposite, to control, to own, and to dominate. One can own a slave and place ones needs first, and still be a responsible individual that cares for ones property. If one isn't responsible or doesnt care, then one is very quickly out of property - Gorean, bdsm, or whatever orientation one follows.

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 11:18:26 AM   
bliss1


Posts: 497
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline 		For this submissive who wish's to have on man enslave her heart - I have no desire to be slave to all men.

Besides that I'm far to old to call a man who could be my son Master - it ain't gonna happen.


_____________________________

Witch before, during, and after my coffee.

(in reply to Kuldan)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 11:42:18 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline 		I wonder bliss, what makes you so afraid of being a slave to a man younger then you? This is at least the second time you've said this. Are you trying to convince others................or convince yourself?

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to bliss1)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 12:34:03 PM   
SirDominic


Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		Kuldan, I don't disagree with anything you said. There are a great many Masters, no matter the philosophy they go by, that do see to it that their slave's needs are fulfilled.

I was talking specifically about the tendency for women to fall for jerks, i.e. abusive men, and why they do so.

Namaste, Dominic

_____________________________

You teach best what you have lived.

(in reply to Kuldan)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 12:38:48 PM   
Kuldan


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Ah, alright - if you spoke on those terms, I agree with it.

(in reply to SirDominic)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 2:04:31 PM   
pashafewj


Posts: 54
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings edana,
 
So as not to derail this thread, pasha wishes to reply to your post on the support thread~

_____________________________

far-sæla,
pasha

“How does one become a butterfly?" she asked. "You must want to fly so much that you are willing to give up being a caterpillar.”


(in reply to edana)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 3:05:50 PM   
Maahsatti


Posts: 2594
Joined: 8/5/2006
Status: offline 		Greetings Najakcharmer,

The subject of Lesbianism, is not one I actively choose to discuss, I have very strong feelings about homosexuality and feel it is the most unnatural phenomena on earth.
I feel it is some sort of defect, if you will, medically, chemically or genetically and thats all I will remark about it, to avoid any unkindness or offense to anyone on this board or any other board.

I wish you well,
Maahsatti

_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 3:33:29 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti
The subject of Lesbianism, is not one I actively choose to discuss


Okay, I can respect that wish - but they still exist whether you personally like them or not, and not just in Homo sapiens. It's a pretty widespread thing among almost all the social species.

The world is larger than the narrow scope that any of us can see with our own two eyes.  So making all-encompassing statements about "all men" or "all women" is more likely to be futile than otherwise, and also it is potentially annoying to the folks who really don't fit into your generalization.

I'm not sexually interested in women, but I'm also not sexually interested in dominant/alpha males.  The chemistry just doesn't go off for me with an alpha male who appreciates female submission and their attempts to be pleasing to the dominant male.  I can clap my dominant male buddies on the back and congratulate them when they get those excellent responses from women who do appreciate them, but my personal hot buttons are in the same places that theirs are, so I'm looking for exactly the same responses from men.  Which is probably why I end up having a lot of male dom buddies - we understand each other remarkably well because we're wired the same way.

(in reply to Maahsatti)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 3:51:20 PM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer
quote:

ORIGINAL: Maahsatti
The subject of Lesbianism, is not one I actively choose to discuss

Okay, I can respect that wish - but they still exist whether you personally like them or not, and not just in Homo sapiens. It's a pretty widespread thing among almost all the social species.


To my understanding the act of homosexulity across the specie is not one necessirly of pleasure or lifestyle but of domination or dominion over another.

Rapture

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 4:29:30 PM   
Kuldan


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		The act of most sexual interactions carries within it aspects of domination, but is not its sole purpose. Current research on homosexuality has found that, at least in research with mammals (such as rats), homosexuality was seen developing as the result of lower than usual (males) or higher than usual (females) testosterone levels during certain months of pregnancy. Other explanations can be derived from genetics or brain anatomy research.

Which means, that at least according to current research, homosexuality is a naturally (and nature-intended) occuring phenomenon across species.
The reason that it has not yet been wiped out in evolution, despite the fact that homosexual animals and humans are not neccessarily wired to produce offspring, is attributed to the theory that homosexuality plays a part in population control - that a population that grows too fast, will (in part) be mediated by a certain percentage of homosexual individuals that will not produce offspring. The latter, clearly, is only a theory without as much support as the abovementioned research facts on the hormonal / genetic causes of homosexuality.

Even so, it is not the norm, but a relative minority, and as such, an exception to the rule. Just as there are many exceptions to most any rule.
The Gorean concept simply chooses not to deal much with homosexuality, but it is still wise to understand and accept its place in the world, and if one is so inclined, to personally ignore its effects for ones own life and philosophy.

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 5:04:22 PM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Kuldan,

If you have any research papers on the subject email me some links...

Rapture

(in reply to Kuldan)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 5:07:05 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rapture
To my understanding the act of homosexulity across the specie is not one necessirly of pleasure or lifestyle but of domination or dominion over another.


You're confusing social expressions of dominance by sexual mounting, which does occur without respect to gender, with actual homosexuality and social bonding or pair bonding in the animal kingdom.  Common misconception. 

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 5:12:48 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kuldan
Which means, that at least according to current research, homosexuality is a naturally (and nature-intended) occuring phenomenon across species.
The reason that it has not yet been wiped out in evolution, despite the fact that homosexual animals and humans are not neccessarily wired to produce offspring, is attributed to the theory that homosexuality plays a part in population control - that a population that grows too fast, will (in part) be mediated by a certain percentage of homosexual individuals that will not produce offspring. The latter, clearly, is only a theory without as much support as the abovementioned research facts on the hormonal / genetic causes of homosexuality.


Even more crucially, adult members of a social group actively contributing to food stores and other resources who do not reproduce tend to maximize the survival rate of that group's offspring.  Homosexual pairs in a social group tend to have the direct effect of raising the standard of living of that group because they contribute without producing offspring.  That is probably the most potent evolutionary reason for the persistence of a consistent percentage of homosexual pairs as a survival trait for group-living species. 

(in reply to Kuldan)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/24/2007 5:33:53 PM   
celticlord2112


Posts: 5732
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

Greetings to All:
 
This is more of a philosophical question do the females of Earth want to be a slave as is written in the books of Gor?  I do not mean those of us here on these boards posting as it is obvious the the majority of us want the feel of the steel and iron and whip on our bodies.  But the ones who have no knowledge of this stuff at all.



Do all women yearn to be slaves?  That is a dangerous generalization to make.

However, I have observed that men and women are drawn to strength and power -- some to possess, others to be possessed.

(in reply to patina)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/25/2007 12:19:51 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

You're confusing social expressions of dominance by sexual mounting, which does occur without respect to gender, with actual homosexuality and social bonding or pair bonding in the animal kingdom.  Common misconception. 


Your comment isnt exactly accurate there... more of use of buzz words.

Rapture

~~Got Milk? Got Tickets? Got it, get it, Got it good.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/25/2007 12:33:03 AM   
Kuldan


Posts: 52
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: offline 		Tal Rapture,

just sent you a personal message with the source information.

Kuldan

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 40
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