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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/25/2007 11:21:54 PM   
patina


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Greetings Master xBull and Master Rapture:

Thank you both for your kind words.  Master
Rapture my post on here  are always meant in sincerity. 

Master Bull I am confused by your statement are you saying that some of us on line here are not really wanting to be considered slaves.   That we submit but not totallity enough to be a full slave.  I apologize for being so dense.  It has been a long week of hospital sitting. 

Peace be to both of you

patina 



_____________________________

a diamond in the rough

(in reply to Rapture)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/26/2007 5:59:48 AM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
Greetings Patina,


corrects the "P" to a "p".



I have no need for you to correct my grammar. The lower case "p" versus capital "P" is an onlineism.In fact the BDSM folks coined it. I can tell by a females actions what it is she aspires to be. I could care less if people use it. and in fact if a slave is owned and told to use it fine enough. I however will type as it moves me too. If you wish to be told how to address the girls, then by all means follow suit or do as you're told.

quote:


We were discussing this issue to a lessor degree around the fire and it seemed a fairly common thought that most, not all, but yes most women have a submissive desire, a need, an ache. However the slavery condition isn't well met by even these online "slaves" all that well in a great many cases. It is the choice factor and one of the sluts was talking about this earlier in the thread. Need, the need to belong to a man. The need to have a man control you, the need to be his device of pleasure, labor, lust and smile.

Rapture:

Of what someone is by way of nature, no matter what type of conditioning, or teaching, or fallacies they may believe in, is still them-what nature wishes them to be. This is not a choice. I do believe I have mentioned in the past and surely on these forums such a need...which defies by the way the contentions of unowned slaves being free. That need is still there, no matter what, no matter if she is owned or not owned, yet the only question is that need being met or should I say Mastered.



I have no idea what you just said here. My above statement was in regards to the females that while online feeling some sense of being a slave, therefore they declare themsleves to be slave. This was not decided by men, but by female herself. Now, they may in fact have an internal need to be a slave, they may ache to be such, but men decide the state of affairs in Gorean circles. I do believe that is also something you say. I'm surprised that as much as you shout Gor is a man's world you allow the females to decide that which they are in relationship to you. If a female has been claimed or collared by you or anyman, I respect the point a man has made her property and see her as such. But he decided, she didn't. Hell, I am even open to the idea of a free woman making a girl, or a guy for that matter, her slave; but a free person decides and maintains this condition. And no, it can't be spun that a free can make themsleves a slave, I'm not playing childish word games with my lifestyle. If a females is not owned by a man, she has not been seen by a man as slave, not worthy of the price of admission. You can use all the Websters like definitions you want, but the fact remains, it seems you are allowing a female to determine her relationship towards you, for you. I am not.  My point was a general view of how females can behave "online" and not in the flesh, it is easy to play slave here where you can turn off the computer and be a typical girl again (hense the choice statement), you are more than well aware of this girls playing slave senario. You are however, welcome to your view, and we have went over this before.

quote:


Slavery is an absolute condition, it is met with no room for conditions, the slave is owned, submission as a slave is complete and the slaves choices end at the point of surrender. She is his to taste, to use, to labor for, to beat, to do anything and everything that he desires. (note for the non-Gorean subscribers, his can be seen as gender neutral.) The romantic notion of slavery and intense sexual use may in fact be exciting, but not all to accurate. Most actually get close to going to a masterly type and poof, reality slaps them senseless and they run for the hills.

Rapture:

The domination or control aspects have little or if anything to do with sex. I will agree.


-Nods-

quote:


Many and perhaps most women need a strong man, not always in a slaves capactity, but none the less need a man. Some need an alpha woman, but others yet understand that they are meant to be a slave, it is something they are, hard wired much the same as the lesbian or gay man.

Rapture:

Yet, being subservient is being subservient, as one put it and to paraphrase its the community or the Man that allows such capacity, and thus not really free at all.


Your statement here just leaves to broad stroke of the brush. A free companion can be subservient to a man and not be his slave, nor the slave to free. Someone may be a paid housekeeper, thus subservient, yet not a slave. I don't like the to broad of slash of the brush here, in that sense you yourself could be seen by someone as a slave. Neither of us believe that to be the case.

quote:


It is not a choice internally and that is why until they fill this void they are in a sense, lost. If it is you, you will know. Others won't do to societal conditioning and they're are yet to even be exposed to their feelings on this. But so long as it is taboo, discouraged and shunned, many will walk the path of loneliness.

Rapture:

If a choice as you said above, now not a choice, but I agree it isnt a choice and as such not free. For the same would walk in the face of what the females true nature is to be, what always and continues to be intended.


Now you aren't allowed to twist my words. I have never said that in the case of some females the slavery conditional is internally wired and they feel the condition and must become that to be at peace, in a manner of speaking. It still comes back to what MEN label them to be. And this is not always as strog of a drive and I have no proof that it is even always the drive for a woman to be slave. I'm still trying to decide if it's a fifty/fifty thing or what. Do you have proof beyond your opinion that ALL women are slaves. I'd be very content with the idea if we could take this to Congress and say, the laws are wrong dammit. I actually happen to be rather fond of slave flesh. Again, I am only deciding for myself as man who is allowed to be slave, not having them tell me. You can do as you wish.

quote:


Do you think the politically powerful females would stand by and allow a world where women were allowed to acknowledge slavery openly on the street daily and not rise holy hell. Some would find it disgusting, others would fear men would get carried away with it, and yet others would be terrified of the feelings this inspired in their bellies.

Rapture:

Perhaps this is why most of the world is run by Men?


Perhaps....

quote:


Even within their minds, many men would submit some control willingly to another, consider the warriors, they have leaders that can send them to death, and they willingly follow orders. Consider the leader of said castes, or the Ubars or the Administrators reign over people. What is the sense of condition of submission and slavery. So many variables control the answer to submission, surrender and slavery.

Rapture:

Actually, the Solider does not follow blindly, and if so he is more guilty. Also, the Solider swore to uphold whomever was in charge or who was elected (in the modern view of things), but even that has its limitations.


Now let's not get into semantics. A slave also has a mind and could choose to not follow blindly and in fact in our consentual slavery world, she is no more following blindly then the soldier. Hense why I am working on, in my mind this slavery title. I'm not claiming to have all the answers here. You can't use the soldier has choices idea all that successfully though, I do believe they are drafted at times across the globe. I also believe that men have over the ages actually been abducted into warrior or sailor service. If memory serves me correct, men were stolen off the streets to serve the Royal Navy when Napoleon was massed on the French shores wanting to invade Britian. Check the history of the HMS Victory. A beautiful vessel with a jaded past.

quote:


Ponder these things and again ask yourself. "Do all women want to be slaves?" And no, Goreans at least those I speak with, do not think, nor do they believe the books in all cases think or say that ALL women want to be slaves.
Though, I do think all women would fancy a sweet bovine smooch!!!!!
The End,
Bull

Rapture:

Perhaps already are, but are just in wait... You I believe even elluded to this above....

Rapture


No, again your attempting to see my words in your theory. Or maybe you meant they are awaiting my kiss. That I agree is very likely.

Live well,

Bull

Edited because I don't always understand how to make this quote crap work............

[Mod Note:  user's name removed]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 5/26/2007 8:40:16 AM >


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/26/2007 6:22:39 AM   
xBullx


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Joined: 10/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: patina

Master Bull I am confused by your statement are you saying that some of us on line here are not really wanting to be considered slaves.   That we submit but not totallity enough to be a full slave.  I apologize for being so dense.  It has been a long week of hospital sitting.



Greetings Patina,

No, I can't read minds, but do to past experience I'm saying that online, many girls have a comfort zone and see the romantic notion of slavery and think that's what they want. Then when they meet with reality or are confronted with slavery and having a choice in the matter, they run for the hills. They don't show for their day of reckoning. Now, this is not always the case, but talking to folks, it happens rather often.

It was also discussed that many men think slavery is something they have to expend no effort in, that a girl just does what she's told and it's all so easy and automatic, they don't realize that it does take a good deal of effort on a man's part to own a girl. This is a if the shoe fits statement, I'm not putting all under an umbrella.

As to your mental density, I have no comment, I don't have sufficient data to make a valid judgement.

Serve well,

Bull

_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to patina)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/26/2007 7:55:13 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:


"I have no need for you to correct my grammar. The lower case "p" versus capital "P" is an onlineism.In fact the BDSM folks coined it. I can tell by a females actions what it is she aspires to be. I could care less if people use it. and in fact if a slave is owned and told to use it fine enough. I however will type as it moves me too. If you wish to be told how to address the girls, then by all means follow suit or do as you're told. "


Well, I can only see how people post over a period of time, and see if the same is consistant. At least to my recollection you did not cap those who are slave owned or unowned for sometime except up until the discussion that has been held here on CM about slaves being free if unowned (for what it is worth, if anything, just a mere observation).

quote:


"I have no idea what you just said here. My above statement was in regards to the females that while online feeling some sense of being a slave, therefore they declare themsleves to be slave. This was not decided by men, but by female herself. Now, they may in fact have an internal need to be a slave,........"
<<SNIPPAGE>>

Unfortunitly, your post contained many contradictions, I merely corrected them. I do tend to pick up on oxymorons that are posted from many people and thus straighten it out. It is a debate/discussion no less is it not?  I have not allowed any female define any relationship which involves me. This is how pereceptions and biases can run rampant when in fact the truth is quite something else.

quote:


"Your statement here just leaves to broad stroke of the brush. A free companion can be subservient to a man and not be his slave, nor the slave to free. Someone may be a paid housekeeper, thus subservient, yet not a slave. I don't like the to broad of slash of the brush here, in that sense you yourself could be seen by someone as a slave. Neither of us believe that to be the case. "


First, to tell me I believe in X within this type of response or post, is not only incorrect, it is in fact putting words in my mouth. An FC or FW if the case may be is no different save for the level of mouthiness than a slave. As a matter of fact when the FW do get mouthy and start to pound their chest and wish to hear themselves roar seems to me the same is beg for them to be put their knees. I can of course provide (which I have in previous conversations and discussions) an annoted response. The FW again relies on a third party thing for her "freedom" thus is not so free at all, in fact, has less freedom of expression and in fact less freedom overall. Why? For the same reasons, the FW's expressions must not be within the scope of her true nature and sensuality and/or womanhood while in the presence of Men.

quote:


"Now you aren't allowed to twist my words."


I have done no such thing but only pointed out the flaws in your agrument.

quote:


"I have never said that in the case of some females the slavery conditional is internally wired and they feel the condition and must become that to be at peace, in a manner of speaking. It still comes back to what MEN label them to be. "


Labels are just that labels and hold no truth whatsoever in what something is or in this instance what a female is in nature and what is truly intended for her.

quote:


"And this is not always as strog of a drive and I have no proof that it is even always the drive for a woman to be slave."


Just because you may not have proof of something does not mean that something is false.

quote:


"I'm still trying to decide if it's a fifty/fifty thing or what. Do you have proof beyond your opinion that ALL women are slaves. I'd be very content with the idea if we could take this to Congress and say, the laws are wrong dammit. I actually happen to be rather fond of slave flesh. Again, I am only deciding for myself as man who is allowed to be slave, not having them tell me. You can do as you wish."


I am still waiting for all of those mighty femdoms, fw, and other "dominate" type females to follow through as to what they say and do here online. This of course is one of many of my "experiments" This of course as been over a 10 year period of time... In short order or in a short response you can say, yes.

quote:


"Now let's not get into semantics. A slave also has a mind and could choose to not follow blindly and in fact in our consentual slavery world, she is no more following blindly then the soldier. Hense why I am working on, in my mind this slavery title. I'm not claiming to have all the answers here. You can't use the soldier has choices idea all that successfully though, I do believe they are drafted at times across the globe. I also believe that men have over the ages actually been abducted into warrior or sailor service. If memory serves me correct, men were stolen off the streets to serve the Royal Navy when Napoleon was massed on the French shores wanting to invade Britian. Check the history of the HMS Victory. A beautiful vessel with a jaded past. "


You do not give your consent to what is in fact your true nature. You can sit in denial of this nature, you can attempt to cover the same up, and even make excuses for the same thus you do not consent to it.  The consent thing is of society, and of the various governments and their respective perceptions in how things should be run. If you will note the same tend to depart from their own credo if it suits their respective purpose, which is a natural trait to do, and as many here on CM have done, and continue to do.

quote:


"No, again your attempting to see my words in your theory. ...."
<<SNIPPAGE>>

No, I merely as stated above, I corrected a contradictory theorical agrument that you put forth, and nothing else.

Enjoy your weekend.

Rapture

< Message edited by Rapture -- 5/26/2007 8:02:27 AM >

(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 12:34:14 AM   
IrishMist


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While I would not go so far as to say that 'all women want to be slaves', I will say that I do believe that women have a natural inclination to want to please.

_____________________________

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 5:48:21 AM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

While I would not go so far as to say that 'all women want to be slaves', I will say that I do believe that women have a natural inclination to want to please.


Again, not"all". I know quite a few men that are much more concerned with pleasing others than I am. I also know quite a few women that want to please but with conditions, they expect some form of reciprocation to follow. They keep some sort of mental "score".......who brings treats into the office more etc. The majority of men I know are not like that at all.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 6:15:09 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
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Greetings,

I think many look at the concept of slave wrong, they look at it as if the ultimate concept is to serve or to please, and while those may be components that are incorporated into slave, they are not what defines the need for slave within a woman.  There are many people in the world who feel the need to serve others and to please, that doesn't mean they feel slave or have the natural inclination to BE slave to another.  Slave incorporates many other things that are based on stronger reactions that solidify and create the indepth need and response of slave, they include the need to be owned, possessed, mastered, and enslaved.  There are many people within the world who easily have the ultimate urge to serve and please without the main components that solidify the need for slave and those are the ownership, possession and mastered and enslavement of one by someone whose strength and will are stronger than her own.  This usually within the concept of Men because Men are within the concept of natural order the more dominant and greater strength in which women react too, for lack of better word lol chemically. 

Those who have identified the need for possession, mastery and enslavement by a Man whose strength and will is stronger than her own to me have identified slave.  I think there is a grave misconception that the need to serve and please are what creates the need for slave in someone, those two concepts can easily be fed without the strength and will of a Man causing a response of slave in a woman. 

Even FW enjoy serving and pleasing Men, but it is the slave within that wants the fierce possession, ownership, mastery and enslavement -- which i believe is where the concept that a FW is a slave on the couch of her Man, her natural reactions to his dominance, mastery and possession come alive because within the concept of sex, if a woman is naturally responding, she loses her FW control and her natural reactions to the Man come apparent, reactions that slaves are not allowed to withdraw and hold within and save only for the "couch."  Slaves because of the mastery and enslavement, possession and mastery are forced to release herself naturally all of the time, allowing any reactions to be free when with a Man, and in such a concept he then directs her as slave simply because of her own reactions to him. 

While serving and pleasing tend to be results of slavery, we all know that you don't always want to serve and you aren't always pleasing and if you are honest with yourself you don't always want to please, while you strive for certain things those are not constant of slave, its not reactionary it a woman determining she wants to do something for another, serving and pleasing, obedience and even beauty are all results that tend to be trigggered from the possession, mastery, enslavement and ownership of a woman by a Man, which is why they tend to be inconsisitent and fluctuate. 

Slaves within the books served FW because of their status, not because some need the FW fed in them.  Slaves of Gorean Men tend to do the same, they serve women in the way they wish because they are owned by Gorean Men, not because they are being compelled to do so by a woman who at any moment be on her knees beside her based on a decision of a Man.  If the need to serve and please were what identified slave, more slaves would serve and please and need to be such to other slaves as well instead of differentiating who and what they serve and please.

Many times reading these Boards, i have questioned the slave in me, because i don't have this ultimate need to serve and i know i don't have such to be pleasing, my self-induced obedience level lol tends to fluctuate, and there are many times i could care less about bringing beauty into the lives of Men who otherwise might neglect it.  All of those concepts when i was slave tended to be results because of his possession and mastery and enslavement of me, his ownership was my guide in honing such ideas, not despite of his ownership, mastery, enslavement, and possession of me by him.  The ultimate need to please Men you saw in the books was based on the fact it was a result of their mastery and enslavement of her, when you saw it occur, usually it was based on some realization within a woman, and she reacted as slave, she knew what she needed of Men, where her place was, and within his control and mastery she knew she would do everything for him, please him, serve him, and thrive within the possession, mastery, owner, and enslavement of Men.  My slavery comes alive when i stop trying to control it and react to the Men and relax into being, i don't need to then question whether or not i have an inate desire to serve, be pleasing, obedient or even beautiful, for my simple reactions to Him will have him guide me into being what he chooses me to be, usually, simply slave. 

i know a lot of people will disagree with me, they tend to see slaves making themselves slaves without the Man involved to be what Gorean slavery was.  I know many will also agree with me, as slave is about natural reactions, not actions based on feeding an inner need within a woman.  To me, the Man makes the slave, her reactions and natural needs go far beyond the need to serve and please; her natural needs are ones she cannot feed herself.  Any woman can feed her need to serve and please, only a Man can serve the very deep need of slave to be owned, possessed, mastered and enslaved my a Man.

So yes, the general idea within Gor is all woman have these needs she may or may not acknowledge, she has these needs she may not even know about, in many women these needs will probably be hidden and dormant until a Man or Men release them and she reactions naturally.  It may or may not happen in a woman's lifetime, but i believe that is what is referred to with the concept of all women are slave.  It doesn't mean all women will understand, know, or acknowledge be baser needs within.  As said above, it takes a Man to feed such, and if no Man comes about, or Men, she may very well spend her life believing she is not slave. 

Just my thoughts, Sorry for the long post i have been trying to figure out how to word this for a while, and this morning i just typed what i have been and always have thought in terms of slave and women.
angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 5/27/2007 6:34:54 AM >


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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 7:26:59 AM   
pashafewj


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Those who have identified the need for possession, mastery and enslavement by a Man whose strength and will is stronger than her own to me have identified slave.  I think there is a grave misconception that the need to serve and please are what creates the need for slave in someone, those two concepts can easily be fed without the strength and will of a Man causing a response of slave in a woman. 



Greetings angel,
Twice today pasha has agreed with angel's words :-) The quote above in particular resonates with pasha's own thoughts on the matter. This is why pasha refers to her journey as one of surrender and not slave (although she "slips" sometimes) This girl knows she can only go so far on her own...the right Master will bring out the slave in this girl. Until then, she doesn't truly clasify herself as such except when it makes for convenience of  "labels".
 
This post of yours today has reminded this girl of other posts in which pasha ( as dawntreader) has disagreed with angel. pasha now sees the point angel was trying to make before, you have expressed yourself today in such a way that it speaks to my heart :-) Thankyou~

_____________________________

far-sæla,
pasha


“How does one become a butterfly?" she asked. "You must want to fly so much that you are willing to give up being a caterpillar.”


(in reply to barelynangel)
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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 7:41:32 AM   
xBullx


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Joined: 10/8/2005
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Greetings Rapture,

I read through your entire last post and seen nothing apart from personal attack and the continuation of this personal vendetta of yours. I am not going to do the threads this continued disservice of disrupting and redusing yet another series of posts into your personal hope to best me. It got old for the viewers last time, as it has every other time. You see only what you want to see, you actually find your lack of growth as a man as some sort of noble form of consistancy. I don't see where my discussing the issues with you, further benefits you, I or anyone; apart from those that claim Gor to be a joke.

Good luck to you,

Bull

< Message edited by xBullx -- 5/27/2007 7:44:46 AM >


_____________________________

Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 7:42:01 AM   
IrishMist


Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

While I would not go so far as to say that 'all women want to be slaves', I will say that I do believe that women have a natural inclination to want to please.


Again, not"all". I know quite a few men that are much more concerned with pleasing others than I am. I also know quite a few women that want to please but with conditions, they expect some form of reciprocation to follow. They keep some sort of mental "score".......who brings treats into the office more etc. The majority of men I know are not like that at all.

No where did I say ALL....

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.


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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 8:15:47 AM   
Maahsatti


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MissSCD,

To compare Gor to Star Wars conventions or even star trek conventions are like comparing apples to oranges and is in itself the insult.
I find it most insulting to read such nonsense from people like you, who seem to have no clue what so ever. Perhaps get one and I may look at your perspective a bit more seriously.

To the group as a whole, here, please forgive my blunt statement to this woman, but it is this very attitude that lights my fire, so to speak.

I do however wish you well MissSCD and hopefully in the near future an open mind, based in knowledge.
Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 8:22:12 AM   
smilezz


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Good morning you gorgeous woman....uhhhmm....FW Maahsatti that is! 

You were much nicer than i was.  I am not sure i will ever learn to truly keep quiet on things that just quite frankly...irk me.   I know it's all in "how" it's said,  i have not gotten there yet.

Hope you are enjoying your weekend!
~smilezz~

_____________________________

=It's not my fault that when I was a baby I was dropped in a box of Glitter & I have been shinin' ever since=

�*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,.-:* � �*:-.,_,-:* �

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 8:31:08 AM   
Maahsatti


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Joined: 8/5/2006
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(chuckles)

Greetings smilezz,

I found your response to that woman fair and true and I quite enjoyed reading it. I sat here literally and softly clapped my hands.
well done dear, well done indeed.
I hope you having a lovely weekend.

FW Maahsatti


_____________________________

Gorean women, whether slave or Free,know, that their simple presence, brings joy to men,and I cannot think but that this pleases them.
Outlaw of Gor, pg 54

(in reply to smilezz)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 9:07:42 AM   
Rapture


Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx
Greetings Rapture,
I read through your entire last post and seen nothing apart from personal attack and the continuation of this personal vendetta of yours. I am not going to do the threads this continued disservice of disrupting and redusing yet another series of posts into your personal hope to best me. It got old for the viewers last time, as it has every other time. You see only what you want to see, you actually find your lack of growth as a man as some sort of noble form of consistancy. I don't see where my discussing the issues with you, further benefits you, I or anyone; apart from those that claim Gor to be a joke.
Good luck to you,
Bull


No Bull, my response to you was not a personal attack at all, though my response was in fact a disection of what you were puporting on a point by point, element by element basis. As such, showed you contradicting yourself in basically the same breath. Your statements above are unsupported and only state a conclusion without any type of basis. If the Mod thought this was a personal attack I am sure she would of commented to me, which she has not (you even used this reasonin previsously toward me). Further, I do have from third parties (yes plural) confirmation that you were contradicting yourself, so I did do a reality check for myself.

You cannot say on one end that a slave and the attributes thereof to be natural of the female then turn around and say the man defines the same or even defines the relationship. These are oxymorons. What is a further oxymoron, is to say a slave has these natural atrtibutes of submission and that is her natural state, then say label her a fw when not owned, would in fact go agaisnt the defination of honor and that of truth. For if you or anyone claim such (not a statement to implicate but to only make a point) honor or that of truth, to hold such persons as a fw but when they are actually slave would violate honor and that of truth thereby contridicting said purported codes of many who would hold to both honor and that unowned slaves are that of a fw. For example, labeling slaves as fw, is just false, and in fact untrue by your own words-present and past.

Rapture

< Message edited by Rapture -- 5/27/2007 9:12:54 AM >

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 9:11:24 AM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
A quick 2 cents.
No matter what you say, the answer to DO ALL X want Y is always going to be no.
Not all women want to be slaves. Not all men want to be Masters. Gor or not, there is no ALL to any sitution you can think of in the Lifestyle.

DV

_____________________________

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VampiresLair

(in reply to Rapture)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 9:17:19 AM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: patina
This is more of a philosophical question do the females of Earth want to be a slave as is written in the books of Gor? 
 
It is to that my question goes toward.  I know in the book what it says but i would like to know what the Masters, kajirs, and Free think.  I do hope I have not disrespected anyone with my question or the way i formed it.
 


Short answer, 'no.' I have not even gotten through 2 pages of any of the books of Gor, I got a migraine from trying to read, so I stopped.

I am everyone's equal, on these boards and off; when I have a partner, yes, I do defer many things to him and request that he take as much as control as we agree on, etc; yet, even then, we are still equals, we are parnters, we are lovers, we are Master/slave, yet, that does NOT make me an inadimate object. I desire to be the slave that I have the opportunity to become and to grow as such. I speak in 1st person, I have 'property' (for lack of a better word), I maintain my life and my capasity to think freely and without barriers.

I have spoken with female (vanilla) friends who have read the books of Gor and they look at in a 'romantic' {carefree} light, yet, I know that if any of them tried it in r/t they would panic and things would get ugly.


Note to OP, I too right erotica, bdsm, M/s mostly, I would love to do a story exchange if you would be so inclined, please email me if you are interested.

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 9:23:21 AM   
Rapture


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Joined: 12/27/2004
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My quick 1cent response (with no change):

You have no basis in which supports your conclusion.
Take away government and 911 and/or the safety of the computer screen, you wouldnt be so bold, and you would be serving. <-- basis
Take away third parties that would otherwise protect or provide a plateform for your freedom, you would be serving. <-basis
New Orleans, Hurricane Katrina. I of course could relate specific events of course... but we all know what happened. <- basis
Which the trhee above contentions have yet to be EVER disproved (by the way). However, they have been ignored, and spoke around but never not once disproved.

Rapture

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiurnalVampire
A quick 2 cents.
No matter what you say, the answer to DO ALL X want Y is always going to be no.
Not all women want to be slaves. Not all men want to be Masters. Gor or not, there is no ALL to any sitution you can think of in the Lifestyle.
DV

(in reply to DiurnalVampire)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 9:29:35 AM   
xBullx


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...

Regards,

Bull

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Live well,

Bull



I'm not an asshole; I'm simply resolute...

"A Republic, If You Can Keep It."

Caution: My humor is a bit skewed.

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 10:08:25 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rapture

Take away government and 911 and/or the safety of the computer screen, you wouldnt be so bold, and you would be serving. <-- basis
Take away third parties that would otherwise protect or provide a plateform for your freedom, you would be serving. <-basis

Wow.  You are the perfect example of why so many people think Gor is nothing but a complete joke.  Take a bow, you've certainly earned it.

~stef

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RE: Do all women want to be slaves as the Gor says? - 5/27/2007 10:10:19 AM   
MySweetSubmssive


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Joined: 2/7/2006
From: Lehigh Valley, PA
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The initial question strikes me as rhetorical in the extreme, asked here on a site where there are dommes, top women and women who aren't sexually interested in men.  If all women wanted to be slaves (or needed to be slaves) to men, there wouldn't be threads on looking for a male wife or the joys of female superiority, let alone enthusiastic repsonses to them. 

I think that when our own orienatation seems so right/natural/inherent, it can be an easy next step to think it's that way for everyone.  It's not. 

The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

MSS

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(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 80
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