RE: How do you train.............

RE: How do you train............. (Full Version)

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earthycouple -> RE: How do you train............. (5/24/2007 3:53:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx I am not a self sabotaging person. I prefer success over failure. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. My horses drink water because they want to. Now this is a smart man....

Celeste43 -> RE: How do you train............. (5/24/2007 9:07:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx I am not a self sabotaging person. I prefer success over failure. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. My horses drink water because they want to. Actually it depends on why they won't drink it. Horses tend to prefer the water at home, if they are somewhere else the water tastes wrong and they won't drink. But they are still thirsty and court illness by not drinking. The training comes in by recognizing why they don't drink and finding a way to over come the problem. In terms of horses, you pour a little apple juice in and that makes the taste better. And that is how you teach a horse to drink. Horse training can be thought of in relation to D/s. You don't just punish, you delve into what the problem is, how best to correct it, you repeat the lesson over again until it is learned and memorized, you always end the lesson on a positive note and you use positive reinforcement.

jaunty1 -> RE: How do you train............. (5/24/2007 1:20:14 PM)
I did not go out of my way looking for someone who was submissive or slave like. I just happened to get lucky and run into her by accident [:)] If I had not met melissa, I would have looked for someone who complimented me, shared the same interests, I was physically attracted to, etc, etc. If they turned out to be of a submissive nature, that would have been a bonus. Live well Alex

stoicism99 -> RE: How do you train............. (5/24/2007 1:56:01 PM)
I believe szobras had the answer correctly illustrated, as well. You cannot and should not enter a relationship looking to change someone away from what they are, that is doomed to fail. I want someone who has come to the realization that they are submissive and look to learn to further their education about being submissive.

Faramir -> RE: How do you train............. (5/24/2007 3:52:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx I am not a self sabotaging person. I prefer success over failure. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. My horses drink water because they want to. Actually it depends on why they won't drink it. Horses tend to prefer the water at home, if they are somewhere else the water tastes wrong and they won't drink. But they are still thirsty and court illness by not drinking. The training comes in by recognizing why they don't drink and finding a way to over come the problem. In terms of horses, you pour a little apple juice in and that makes the taste better. And that is how you teach a horse to drink. Horse training can be thought of in relation to D/s. You don't just punish, you delve into what the problem is, how best to correct it, you repeat the lesson over again until it is learned and memorized, you always end the lesson on a positive note and you use positive reinforcement. You did a great job taking apart the aphorism he used, but you missed the whole damn point. The analogy still stands when you go deeper into the nuts and bolts reality of getting horses to drink. Horses have an innate need to drink water. So your very interesting explanation of how to get horses to drink water doesn't obviate the point aldompdx and most of are making: training is contingent on the presence of an innate need or orientation. Some vanilla women who doesn't ever fantasize about submission, who doesn't get turned on by being tied up, whipped, slapped or made to lick boots, who doesn't have a control fetish, who likes and is comfortable with autonomy and has an egalitarian model for relationships isn't going to be trained to be submissive. She just fab the way she is, and just a like a gay person isn't going to be trained to be straight, and I'm not going to be trained to be vanilla, you aren't going to train horses to stop drinking.

aldompdx -> RE: How do you train............. (5/24/2007 7:09:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 quote: ORIGINAL: aldompdx I am not a self sabotaging person. I prefer success over failure. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. My horses drink water because they want to. Actually it depends on why they won't drink it. Horses tend to prefer the water at home, if they are somewhere else the water tastes wrong and they won't drink. But they are still thirsty and court illness by not drinking. The training comes in by recognizing why they don't drink and finding a way to over come the problem. In terms of horses, you pour a little apple juice in and that makes the taste better. And that is how you teach a horse to drink. Horse training can be thought of in relation to D/s. You don't just punish, you delve into what the problem is, how best to correct it, you repeat the lesson over again until it is learned and memorized, you always end the lesson on a positive note and you use positive reinforcement. One can dissect a metaphor to death. I do not have a horse. I do not need to give water or feed apple juice to any person.... > You don't just punish, you delve into what the problem is, how best to correct it, Reward is a significant aspect of training. However, I am not out to catch flies with sugar instead of vinegar. You either want to improve, or you don't. Those who do not, typically are dependent/addicted to somebody else doing it for them. Thus, they are stuck and never grow.

DiurnalVampire -> RE: How do you train............. (5/24/2007 7:13:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini ...... someone to be submissive? Do you as a dominant want someone who is intrinsically submissive or someone who hasnt a bone of submission in them and teach them to be something they might not be? I have no interest in teaching someone to be submissive if they dont have that inclination. It turns into a battle of wills, and even if I think I could win...I dont want to. I want the boys I keep to give themselves to be becasue they want to, and then hone their skills. But thats just me. DV

Noah -> RE: How do you train............. (5/25/2007 6:13:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Faramir quote: ORIGINAL: Noah quote: ORIGINAL: Faramir That's stupid--that would be like trying to make a gay person straight. Maybe, somehow, it's possible to find a gay person who got "re-educated" to be straight, to re-align their sexuality. So maybe it's possible to take someone who isn't an "s" and conditiona them to change their whole sexuality. That sounds both evil and banal. And stupid. Well sure you can link D/s inextricably to sexuality if you like. All the while it would be well to note that the linkage isn't necessary. Yea, because we all know gay people just fuck, and don't have interpersonal relationships. It's just nothing but sodomy and rugmunching if you're gay, right? If you're oreintation is gay, it's just sex. That was fucking brilliant, pal. Gender orientation hasn't a thing to do with the point I was making, Faramir, which was that the D/s dynamic can be deeply enmeshed with one's sexuality (regardless of gender orientation) or it can operate in complete independence from one's sexuality (once again, irrespective of one's gender orientation.) Whereas your talk up to that point in the thread seemed to treat sexuality as something as something with which D/s, when present, is necessarily linked. I don't know what your point was in the sarcastic comments about gay sexuality but whatever they may have been I don't see how they'd have served as a response the point I was making. I did go on to ask you a question in that same post. I'd still be interested to hear your thoughts in regard to it: quote: If I get off on dominating and I succeed in engineering the submission of someone who just isn't bent that way--and we both find our own kinds of fulfillment in the interaction--how is it that I am doing something evil, banal (Hannah Arendt fans might smell some redundancy there) and stupid?

Celeste43 -> RE: How do you train............. (5/25/2007 6:50:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Faramir You did a great job taking apart the aphorism he used, but you missed the whole damn point. The analogy still stands when you go deeper into the nuts and bolts reality of getting horses to drink. No I didn't miss it. If you reread it, I stated this is a metaphor for D/s. I did not state it would work in a relationship between a person who prefers a power relationship and one who prefers equality. But I didn't think it was necessary to state that you can only have a D/s relationship if they both agree to do so. Apparently it is necessary to do so. I apologize for not having made that clear.

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