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RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/3/2004 5:30:23 AM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD
allright Ravenwood and proudsub
your both forgiven... (snip)

Here I am confused again... what did proudsub do to receive your forgiveness? The plagiarism I observed happening in this thread ONLY involves the thread starter.

Inyouagain

_____________________________

Careful with that axe, Eugene

(in reply to MistressDREAD)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/3/2004 8:21:14 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

Here I am confused again... what did proudsub do to receive your forgiveness?


I was wondering the same thing.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/3/2004 8:52:14 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Posting here to demand another poster deliver sources of a writing they posted in a seperate thread (despite stating they did not author it), makes it appear to be "target fixation" of a personal nature.


Just found it interesting that person X would chastise other people for not giving credit where credit is due, and then refuse to give credit where credit is due themself.

Back to your regularly scheduled discussion of plagiarism.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/10/2004 8:14:02 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Plagarized or not.. these levels appear to be the biggest load of tripe that I have ever heard of. It gave me that same gag-reflex that I associate with the words, "True" slave/sub/dominant/etc.

Why do some people insist on trying to fit themselves into a nice little container that has been labeled by someone other than themselves?

Yeah...labels are necessary in order to communicate to someone who doesn't know you in order to give them some kind of idea as to where you are coming from.

I would like to recommend reading some of the books written by Lady Diva Midori. (I cant recall the title of the book, unfortunately) She deals with the whole label issue very well.

Anyway..I'll stop ranting and go get some more coffee.

~Thorns

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/11/2004 6:59:04 PM   
bobboynton2001


Posts: 5
Status: offline 		Estring, I'm with you.

Who would want to admit to authoring it? It is full of sly perjoratives. Propaganda always has enough truth to persuade the uncritical.

People are infinitely variable. That's why it is so hard to find the perfect complement to your own character. Maybe impossible. Saying that there are twenty "stages" would still be a gross over simplification.

Maybe if Freud were still alive and a member of this group?

Warning to Begin off topic rant Earthlings:

Re: Tarnsman of Gor (John Frederick Lange Jr aka John Norman) Dune was written the same year (1966) as was This Immortal, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and The Alchemist which are actually good stories. Remember The Doors of His Face, the Lamps of His Mouth or Call Him Lord or Flowers for Algernon? But if you love schlock like me, John Norman and EE 'doc' Smith were the best. Buying them on Saturday afternoon, reading under the covers and repeating as needed. 1966

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/11/2004 11:35:53 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		proud, I forgive you too.

(in reply to proudsub)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/12/2004 12:04:44 AM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

proud, I forgive you too.


AHHHHHH thank you Estring

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/13/2004 12:56:25 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		Thorns: I suppose Dommes need something to do over coffee besides complain about the subbie table squirming? (grins)

I have no problem with people trying to 'classify' human behavior in their minds, and sharing such observations. It is when such observations are touted as gospel that makes me ill. People may be infinately different, but with surprising regularity they tend to be creatures of habit (waits for the rimshot.) In the end, I dont care what level the sub has, so long as she goes down to my level.

Stephan

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http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/13/2004 5:49:04 AM   
inyouagain


Posts: 418
Joined: 1/6/2004
Status: offline 		The mind is a terrible thing, agreed, and no two are identical. The mind can't be copied, xeroxed and/or mass distributed. Printed words are constants until ammended. Humans are cyclic creatures, or variables, who are individually governed by often the weirdest of things, by their own biorythms, quirks, kinks, notions, etc, and some even by mass media advertising (which commercial jingle do you hum often?).

It's all about influence... some need it, some don't, some use it, some won't. This thread was started by someone apparently with a very strong desire to be influential... so strong in fact, he used the tools of influence created by another (who he obviously considered to be influential), and attempted to pass them off as his own created tools of influence.

Are you then therefore presumably influenced?

Inyouagain

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Careful with that axe, Eugene

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 6/13/2004 11:36:01 AM   
Voltare


Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline 		inyou: I think you just proved the Divine Domino theory. If we are strictly a product of our genetic and environmental elements, then theoretically as individuals, we bear no responsibility. Of course the bank robber was going to rob the bank, because the elements of his genetics and environment have made this fact inevitable.

Then again, no matter how hard we try, I think human nature is to resist such constraints - just as any SAM.

Stephan

(tongue in cheek)

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to inyouagain)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/12/2004 10:12:50 PM   
angelthighhighs


Posts: 104
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		while reading about the different levels of submission is interesting, i don't like people to state this is how it is. submission is defined in each relationship differently and having those levels could cause someone to feel less of a sub perhaps than someone else because one is a 5 and the other and 8. i hate labels and things that come across like this is how it is...written in stone. people get so hung up on things like this that they forget its about relationships, about the two involved...what they're comfortable with and what the sub's soul leads her to offer...(or him in case of male sub)

(in reply to Voltare)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/12/2004 10:26:34 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		angel, you hate labels? How did that detergent taste that you thought was cereal? Didn't you read the label?

(in reply to angelthighhighs)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/15/2004 4:26:20 AM   
kiki blue


Posts: 315
Joined: 1/16/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		These "9 (or 10) levels of submission" are in the same basket as the "105 (or whatever) slave rules".

Something that may have started out as a good idea for one person, but spawned itself in a mutant struggle to parade itself as The Right Way for so many who unfortunately stumble across them.

I look at them as being interesting discussion points, that they may have some items of relevance, but presented as warped and OTW as they are, they're more hinder than help.

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Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/15/2004 3:31:41 PM   
angelthighhighs


Posts: 104
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		damn i was hoping no one noticed that

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/15/2004 7:31:41 PM   
pixieunleashed


Posts: 105
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline 		I apologize for my ignorance, but I am having difficulty trying to figure out the reason for compareing submissiveness in the first place. It is reminding me of children's games...this gives someone premise to say to someone else, "I'm more submissive than you are".....and the point is?

I do not see how identifying with a submissive "number" makes someone more or less attractive to a Dominant. It could be just me, but I put value on the person I am dealing with and work with them to see what they are willing to do rather than expect them to start off at a certain place. The relationship with the person, and the journey that relationship takes you on, is much more relavant than what "number" your submission is.

thank you for reading this, have a great day,

pixie

_____________________________

**please note that I realize that I am just as full of crap as everybody else, feel free to remind me anytime**

If you understand it.......you've missed the point.


[image]http://img33.exs.cx/img33/2424/pixieunleashed-2.jpg[/image]

(in reply to kiki blue)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/16/2004 6:51:00 AM   
January


Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline 		pixie,

A list like the levels of submission is an intellectual exercise. I doubt it was ever intended to bully someone into chosing a number to describe themselves or their partner. It's a description of the spectral nature of the transition between sub and slave. Yes, it's only one-dimensional and fairly crude. And most humans are multi-dimensional.

Nonetheless, I think such analyses are fascinating and worthwhile, even if I can't pinpoint what number I am on that graph.

Janaury

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[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]




(in reply to pixieunleashed)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/16/2004 6:57:33 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello,

I wanted to make sure there was no plagiarism on this board, so I thought I would
share the proper bibliographical information for this quote.

quote:

The mind is a terrible thing,


"A mind is a terrible thing to waste, or not to have a mind, how true that is."

J. Danforth Quayle, 44th Vice President of the United States, in a speech to the United Negro College Fund.

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to January)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/16/2004 1:17:11 PM   
angelthighhighs


Posts: 104
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		it may not have been intended to use as a judgment on submissives, but unfortunately like many things some take it as written in stone, how it has to be, how it is and if you are one level and not another that means you are lower...less worthy. shrugs..not right but i have seen it happen. guantee its usually on line and i usually laugh anyway because online you can/could be any type of submissive or Master you wished to be. you could be totally bratty and get spanked all the time...you would be surprised how many cyber spanks can be handled lol...you can submit totally with no limits...why not, things get too hot you just click the X and change your nick. okay, i'm being a bit cynical here...but these are things i've seen happen.

(in reply to January)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/16/2004 1:20:00 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
...as another angel who dislikes labels (yup, we are officially taking over the world!!!)... i have to say that label are 'helpful' in some kind of way for people who feel the need to follow a trend... or feel that they need to 'belong' to a certain part of a community. But in my opinion (and it is only mine), Isnt it wiser follow ones own thoughts and instincts instead of blindly following the flock... because what is submissive to one may be complete madness to another?... It comes down to personal wants, needs and desires... after all... just because something is labelled as cereal, doesnt mean it doesnt taste like cardboard to some(*shudders at the thought of cheerios*)

just a thought...*grinz

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.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: 9 Levels of submission - 7/16/2004 1:45:22 PM   
Lawrence111


Posts: 117
Joined: 6/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Estring

Maybe ravenwood meant the 9 levels of omission.


ROFL, cute quote!

In any case, no matter who wrote what, people make up what works for them. There's also lists of prescribed slave positions, how to address someone (use 'this girl'") most of which to me are utter crap. If on the other hand, it floats your boat, then that is great *for you*.

If not, don't feel you are any less of a submissive or a dominant or however you define, simpley because you find a lot of the so-called "this-is-the-one-twue-was" stuff to be crap *for you*.

I wrote a *short* essay (really, honestly, it's short... not a difficult read) on "Basic Definitions" (which are my opinions only and which are based on what I have seen) and which is at:

http://home.luna.nl/~laurenz/Definitions.htm

Again, it's short, honestly, so please just click the link if you are interested. Otherwise, I do not want to waste bandwidth by doing a copy/paste, because in the end, it could be just CRAP... *to you*.

LOL

Sincerely,

Lawrence
Ithaca, NY

_____________________________

Yoda, my English Teacher was.

***********

Question: What is the ONE creature that puts fear into the heart of a Gorian Warrior?
Answer: "The Beast That Eats Only Male Virgins"

(in reply to Estring)
Profile   Post #: 40
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