Same-sex marriage (Full Version)

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ShiftedJewel -> Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 5:18:21 AM)

Well, since I really do enjoy fishing I decided to open my own can of worms and post a thread about same-sex marriage.

I’m all for it. I believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to marry their SO in every state of the union.

What say you?

Jewel



LadyAngelika -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 5:19:33 AM)

Here in Canada, they can now. I have attended a few same sex weddings in the last year. I think it's wonderful.

- LA



RiotGirl -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 7:38:28 AM)

i completely agree as i feel homesexuality has been around since the begining of time. But some where along the lines of time it became like a witch hunt.

My cousin lives in california and i know she didnt have a big ol wedding. The explained what they did.... (which i forgot) but i dont think they are married in the same way her brother got married. = (




Youtalkingtome -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 8:04:31 AM)

Yes, They should be able to be married in the eyes of the Government.
And get Government out of hetro. marriages.
Their was a time not so far back when a man and woman got married it was between the couple and God.
Now it is between the couple and the Government and depending on the couple sometimes God.
I don't know what years this change came but I was once told that it was 1940s-1950s.
I would assume that WW2 had something to do with this.
Government should have nothing to do with family.Dad,mom and kids.
Then their wouldn't be such a need for divorce lawyers and D.H.S..
If someone that wants a divorce would get little to no money and only the things that they brought to the marriage some people would try harder to stay together.
Make it a non profit divorce.Meaning they only get to leave the marriage not profit from it.
And the churches made a dirty deal with the Government to only wed people that would be married in the eyes of the Government. ( marriage license).They gave up their politcal freedom in exchange for being a 501C3.(tax exempt)
This is one of the reasons why churches have become politicly correct.
I am for very small Government and don't want the Goverment running my life.



Jennsen -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 8:13:41 AM)

I was just going to say the same thing! It seems the government's priorities are in the wrong place...as usual! Why anyone would even care about same-sex marriages is beyond me! They obviously have way too much waisted time on their hands and need to get a life that matters to someone!



perverseangelic -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 8:14:51 AM)

I don't believe that anyone should be allowed to marry.

As I see it, "marriage" is an inherently religious insititution (in any religion you like.) I believe that individuals of legal age should be able to form civil unions with anyone else of legal age they want. (including any number of individuals, eventaully, but our legal system isn't equipped for that yet) I believe that civil unions should replace marriage. Yup, it's a semantics shift, but it changes the entire focus of the debate from religious to civil.

I have no problem with marriage, as itself. I believe individuals should get married within religious as their conscience dictates. However, I believe that the state institutions which offers "marital benifits" should be civil union. Non-religious connotations. For anyone who wants to engage in it.



cellogrrlMK -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 8:43:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

Well, since I really do enjoy fishing I decided to open my own can of worms and post a thread about same-sex marriage.

I’m all for it. I believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to marry their SO in every state of the union.

What say you?



I agree with you Jewel.

I was in the car yesterday, listening to Jerry Springer on Air America (he has a really good show in the Cincinnati area) and he commented on the fact that yesterday was the first anniversary of same sex marriage being whatever it is (legal?) I guess in Massachusetts. Then he made the comment that in the past year not ONE hetero marriage had collapsed because of same sex marriage (in response to the sentiment that same sex marriage would corrupt the integrity of traditional marriage). I think he made a very valid point! His feeling, as is mine is (as he put it) "Love your spouse... love your kids..." basically pay attention to your own life.

Now if only the government and neo-cons would mind their own effing business! Like the bumper sticker says, "Keep your laws off my body" or better yet, "Keep your rosaries off my ovaries"!

cello



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 8:49:30 AM)

Sarcastic response: We need to keep marriage sacred so that young drunk teen pop stars can have vegas marriages which they can annul in 2 days then go on to marry their back-up dancer who has two other children with another woman out of wedlock. That's what the true sacredness of marriage is for.

Real response:
What Perverse said.



RiotGirl -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 9:05:40 AM)

(copies emerald)

Sarcastic response :: Yeah and if you can get them out of marriage, lets get them out of the bedroom. And if you can do that, get them out of what i do with my body, and if you can do that, get them out of my house. Heck get them out of my paycheck and get them out of my life.

Real Response : Its all about money. Didnt yall knw that?



fourpeas -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 11:48:58 AM)

I don't know if anyone has read the book "And the Band Played On" about the AIDS epidemic and its spread in America.

One of the saddest things to me is that during that time, in which homosexual people (especially men) were frightened to death about contracting a disease that no one knew ANYTHING about, they were also being discouraged from forming monogamous unions with one another. (I don't know if I agree with the book's claim that if gays had been allowed to marry, the spread of AIDS would have been diverted slightly...) However, I do agree that honoring ALL unions only brings honor to the existing ones.

Coming from a family that has seen 3 divorces, and living in a country where the divorce rate hovers at about 50%, I don't understand the deal about same-sex marriage. I also feel that its important to return the sanctity of a bond between two people, whatever their beliefs or practices. If you have a bond with someone and you want the world to know about it, I think that everything should be respected. I also think that applies to people who are in bonds and practice poly (of any kinds, mormons, etc.) Whatever is sacred to you, let it remain sacred to you. I won't judge you, and you won't judge me. Pretty simple.

I attend a church here in NJ that supports gays and same-sex marriage, and whatever your religion or beliefs, I also believe that you need a support system around you to help you through marriage and its challenges. For some people that's religion and for others it is other things.


AUGH!!!!! Sorry for the uber-liberal bookish rant, but basically: It's your life and I think you should be able to live it AS YOU SEE FIT not as a government or morality trying to impose itself upon you!

*rallies the troops!*

lots of libby love ---- (lol) anne



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 11:57:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel
Well, since I really do enjoy fishing I decided to open my own can of worms and post a thread about same-sex marriage.

I’m all for it. I believe that homosexual couples should be allowed to marry their SO in every state of the union
Jewel

Oh Jewel,
I was feeling pretty good today, but now you're about to place me in the position of being stoned to death when I voice my opinion.

My background/religion which is fairly conservative (I'm working on losing what is worthless), taught me that marriage is something a man and a woman who intend to live together and procreate do.
I believe that "Civil Unions" should be permitted with all the same legal protections for 2 adults who wish to enter into one; I'm not sure why it needs to be called "marriage" though... Marriage has always been between men and women, and I know some institutions are better off dissolved, but that isn't what's being argued here.

So I am against calling them marriage, but I am all for legal protections afforded to married couples. M



onceburned -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 12:11:17 PM)

quote:

I was feeling pretty good today, but now you're about to place me in the position of being stoned to death when I voice my opinion.


I wonder "Who would cast the first stone?"

Actually, I think your position is moderate, and something state legislatures should enact if they are also going to ban homosexual marriage.



MrThorns -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 12:27:21 PM)

Doesn't this seem like the endless sub vs slave debate? I'll explain:

Many people seem pretty comfortable with someone being able to define themselves as slave or submissive, bottom, top, master, goddess...what have you. We tend to get fairly pissed off when other people set out to define us. There isn't a guide out there that assigns us a label, instead we define ourselves. So why is there a problem with a gay couple defining their relationship as a marriage? It doesn't lessen the marital bond between people in a heterosexual relationship, does it?

Whatever it's called...civil union, marriage, etc., I think it should be legal.

~Thorns



Lordandmaster -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 3:32:00 PM)

But it makes a difference. Civil unions don't come with the same legal benefits that marriages do.

What I would LIKE to happen is for marriage and civil union BOTH to be abolished as legal institutions (with the proviso, of course, that people must be free to carry out whatever religious ceremonies they wish). Of course, that's not going to happen. So as long as we have marriage around, I don't see any reason why homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry. Every argument I've ever heard against it was flawed at best and bigoted at worst.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

Whatever it's called...civil union, marriage, etc., I think it should be legal.




MrThorns -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 4:07:01 PM)

I guess I have never seen marriage as being a religious event, but then that's probably because I don't think much about religion...period. So is there a difference between a common law marriage and a traditional marriage? How does a common law marriage differ from a civil union?

~Thorns



MadameDahlia -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 5:16:11 PM)

http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/JesusPenis.htm

Scroll down the to the bottom to see the video.

"Keep Your Jesus Off My Penis Song for George Bush et al" ©2004 Eric Schwartz





Lordandmaster -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 5:20:51 PM)

These are some interesting resources:

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/objectID/6DF0766E-C4A3-4952-A542F5997196E8B5/118/304/190/ART/

http://www.unmarried.org/common-law-marriage.html

http://www.vermontcivilunion.com/union/faq.html

The last one outlines the legal status of civil unions IN VERMONT.

Civil unions and common-law marriages are not the same thing; in fact, common-law marriages are not often recognized anymore (they refer to unions that attain the legal status of marriage after a certain number of years of cohabitation, even if the couple in question was not formally married). Also, civil unions are recognized by STATES, not by the federal government, so--for example--a gay couple in a civil union does not enjoy the same federal tax advantages as a legally married couple.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrThorns

I guess I have never seen marriage as being a religious event, but then that's probably because I don't think much about religion...period. So is there a difference between a common law marriage and a traditional marriage? How does a common law marriage differ from a civil union?



LadyAngelika -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 5:58:50 PM)

quote:

i completely agree as i feel homesexuality has been around since the begining of time.


Actually, interestingly enough, homosexuality was a term coined at the end of the 19th century. Homosexual acts have been around since the begining of time but the homosexual person is a relatively new concept. It's all part of our evolved desire to put people in little compartments and label them.

- LA



LadyAngelika -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 6:01:06 PM)

quote:

Why anyone would even care about same-sex marriages is beyond me!


Actually many people of the same sex who want to get married care. And I can sorta kind of understand their desire to have their relationship legally recognised as legitimate if that is important to them.

- LA



LadyAngelika -> RE: Same-sex marriage (5/19/2005 6:02:24 PM)

quote:

I have no problem with marriage, as itself. I believe individuals should get married within religious as their conscience dictates. However, I believe that the state institutions which offers "marital benifits" should be civil union. Non-religious connotations. For anyone who wants to engage in it.


Isn't that what a civil wedding is? They are also much shorter and usually a whole lot less expensive. In and out of the courtroom! Woo hoo.

- LA



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