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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 5/31/2007 10:30:20 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		"Ohmigawwwd!!!   The guards at the mall don't have enough training and weapons!!
What ever will we do when the evil (insert scary sounding group here) attack us and Bruce Willis isn't around? 

Won't somebody doooooo something?

Call the president - Call Oprah!  Call McGyver!..."

The notion that private security personnel are supposed to be better trained and better armed than any possible threat defies logic.

Trust the media to completely screw this one up as usual, and trust the gullible to buy it hook line and sinker.

A security force of that caliber would be for all intents and purposes, mercenaries, and the cost ( on several levels) is typically prohibitive.

The lowest bidder usually gets the security contract to (as mentioned) keep lawsuits and insurance rates down, to acts as eyes and ears, and a distant third, to serve as a limited visible deterrent in some cases.

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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 12:31:53 AM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		No surprises here, Popeye.  I have several friends who have done this kind of work and the best part is having the time to do their homework.  They receive little in the way of training or decent wages and are not intended to replace actual police officers.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 4:38:16 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
And she said that there is no standard of training or background checks between the states.
"Some of these people have criminal records" said a security expert.
This whole industry needs to be standardised with ongoing training.
They need to be lisensed and trained to carry firearms.
They need standard and effective background checks.
Off the topic, but this makes me think about how many/most of these same things could be said of bounty hunters (no offense, Bounty).  i've just read and seen lots of things that seem to indicate the same things could be said of that particular vocation.....slave luci 


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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 4:41:50 AM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
I think the day of overwight "Jimmy" the security guard who makes $10 an hour and lives with his parents should be comming to an end. Or, "Gus" the old fart who's retired and "works security" for "drinking money."
Yeah, or "Asa," the ancient old man who sleeps through his shift.  At least he had an old "Teddy Roosevelt horse pistol."  It wasn't any good for shooting and his bullets were moldy, but it sure worked well when thrown at a bank robber's head......slave luci


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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 4:51:01 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		The situation is great in Britain or was. When I worked in the probation service just about the only job an offender could get was security work because the pay was so bad and there were very few personal checks made. I had to laugh one day when the new security system was being installed in one of the office buildings by one of the offenders on file.

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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 5:09:24 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
Status: offline 		Most guards undergo a 20 hour class to get certified to carry a "blue card", to be armed, one would have to undergo a deeper background check, and take a 40 hour course to become certified.

Thats why most armed security gaurds are off duty cops, it's cheaper to pay them $20 an hour than it is to pay for your employee's background check, training, and liability insurance.

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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 5:13:30 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Does the level of security differ as to what they are protecting?  I don't know....But for some reason I believe guards at banks are armed.....We don't need armed guards at lumber yards.


Have you bought a fuckin' stick of wood down there lately, Domi?????

We need fat Jimmy down there now!!!!!!

Ron

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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 5:23:11 AM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		Why not provide them with the proper training, and armement ..o.. yes and then lets call them police and make them accoutable to everyone.

So put up taxes (its an investment not a cost), so you can afford proper security, by people with proper training.
Get rid of amateur security companies full of has beens who are interested only in profit. 

Where I'm living in the US at the moment any car crash, even a simple fender bender seems to have two to three police cars turn up. Every public place we go to you see a "sherrif" department officer or some other "police officer". Why is it so variable across the states.... money ..... tax more if you want the service.... simple.  !!!


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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 6:58:24 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Does the level of security differ as to what they are protecting? I don't know....But for some reason I believe guards at banks are armed.....We don't need armed guards at lumber yards.


Domiguy, I don't think we need any security guards at lumber yards, at least not during the day.
But, the ones protecting say, 50 story office buildings with thousands of people working in them should be of a higher caliber.
And if they're protecting "people" like that they should be well armed, well trained and well paid.
I think the day of overwight "Jimmy" the security guard who makes $10 an hour and lives with his parents should be comming to an end. Or, "Gus" the old fart who's retired and "works security" for "drinking money."
What they have in most buildings now are nothing more than hall monitors.
How would they protect you in a fire? Security Guards should be trained in preliminary Firefighting in high rise buildings as well.

Tired I can see that I was stating the obvious and I agree with you entirely on this point.

But what will fat Jimmy do? You know how I worry about fat Jimmy.


More importantly, WHO is going to pay for all this training? People hire cheap, unqualified labor, because it's CHEAP.

In applications WHERE IT COUNTS, people are properly trained. For people who's main contribution is as an extra in "Security Theater", you get what you pay for.

If you hired Illegals, you could get a higher class of employee for the same money, however.

Just sayin'...



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It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 6:59:47 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

Why not provide them with the proper training, and armement ..o.. yes and then lets call them police and make them accoutable to everyone.

So put up taxes (its an investment not a cost), so you can afford proper security, by people with proper training.
Get rid of amateur security companies full of has beens who are interested only in profit.

Where I'm living in the US at the moment any car crash, even a simple fender bender seems to have two to three police cars turn up. Every public place we go to you see a "sherrif" department officer or some other "police officer". Why is it so variable across the states.... money ..... tax more if you want the service.... simple. !!!





Well, if it wasn't for all the make-work, they *would* be on Unemployment and Welfare.

Every EMPLOYED COP is one less homeless person wandering the streets.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 8:18:57 AM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Does the level of security differ as to what they are protecting?  I don't know....But for some reason I believe guards at banks are armed.....We don't need armed guards at lumber yards.


I was told about a guy unloading a steel ship, who stuck a 5800 lb coil of steel into the back of his pickup truck to drive to the recycling place.

The amount he would make recycling would be to the tune of $10,000 to $12,000.

His axle broke pulling out of the driveway, stranding his truck.  Eventually, security showed up to find out why all the trucks were unable to exit the parking lot.

I suspect he was fired from that particular company.  This means he can work at other companies, he is union, but not that one.  If criminal charges were filed and went through, odds are good he had to do some time in the Big House before he could go back to work.

Then there was that casual longshoreman who was stealing cars.  Weird, I wonder what he was thinking about all those security cameras and guards that ring the place.  I suspect he lost his right to work on the docks permanently.

Security guards in the harbor are part of our union.  They earn $26.00/hour with fabulous benefits, to sit in their car and look at ID cards, or tell truckers to get back in their truck, or whatever.  I know one thing, I feel safer knowing these guys are keeping me safe from Al Qaeda on the waterfront.

Sinergy

p.s.  Hauling specifications on trucks are provided to the person buying it for a reason.

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RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 9:17:21 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		<fast reply>

...wouldn't it be the case that any increase in the training and equipping of security guards affect the bottom line for consumers in much the same way that some argue that universal health care would?
i look forward to those who oppose universal health care to oppose this idea too on the same grounds......

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 11:14:30 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Most guards undergo a 20 hour class to get certified to carry a "blue card", to be armed, one would have to undergo a deeper background check, and take a 40 hour course to become certified.

Thats why most armed security gaurds are off duty cops, it's cheaper to pay them $20 an hour than it is to pay for your employee's background check, training, and liability insurance.


Subrob, that wouldn't work, especially in Massachusetts where the cops can work paid details for $32 per hour.
A lot of them make more money "off duty" with those details than their regular paychecks. They'd laugh at $20 per hour.
Anytime you want or "need" (as mandated by law) a paid detail officer it's a standard rate of $32 per hour (four hour minimum) as determined by the police unions. It's the same for a detailed Firefighter.
The way things are now property owners who use these "security companies" are just getting "feel good" services for their lowest bidder bucks.
They don't know who they're getting or if they have a criminal record. There is virtually no training in this industry and it is un-regulated. It is highly unlikely that any of those people are bonded or could be bonded.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 1:07:26 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		The pay out here for most security guards is just above minimum wage.



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: "Untrained, unarmed & underpaid." - 6/1/2007 5:00:18 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

<fast reply>

...wouldn't it be the case that any increase in the training and equipping of security guards affect the bottom line for consumers in much the same way that some argue that universal health care would?
i look forward to those who oppose universal health care to oppose this idea too on the same grounds......


Philosophy, I think that security work has just become too important these days to be overlooked or neglected.
And yes, a National Healthcare Plan has been overlooked and neglected as well.
There are all kinds of cuts we could make in govt. to pay for it.

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Profile   Post #: 35
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