RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes?

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LadyBadger -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/27/2005 7:00:41 PM)
for me, it depends on the person... not all ugly ducklings are appealing... my present sub has asked for my assistance & advice in helping him achieve some of his goals in his outside life... and I'm quite happy to offer what knowledge & expertise/advice I have for his benefit... for which he is immensely grateful... ::smile:: but if he didn't want it, then I wouldn't offer it... it would be a different kind of relationship, to be sure... LadyBadger

littlespike -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 2:34:23 AM)
Hi Lady Badger i hope that you are doing well. It was so nice to meet you at the DomConLA. i think that it is great that you are there for your sub. Personally i think that it would be great if more Dommes would take an active interest in the subie's vanilla life. respectfully little spike

LadyAngelika -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 7:53:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2 quote: ORIGINAL: kisshou Do you see a pygmalionesque approach as different than a Daddy or Mommy dom? Yes I do see them as different, while there may be some similarities. I think the intentions and the reasonings for what they do are very different. I agree. It's not about they dynamics so much as why you are doing what you are doing. Pygmalionism is about feeling Godlike in one's power, like the saviour of little lost souls. Though I don't do mommy/daddy play, I can tell you that my own parents never acted like they were my saviours. My mom always said that the day I left her womb, I didn't belong to her anymore, I belonged to the world. All she could do a that point was give me what she considered to be the best tools and instil me with what she considered to be the right values and be there for me if I needed her. That is the antithesis to pygmalionism! But notice how it is not void of caring and nurturing quote: quote: A subtle but reoccuring thread in all the forums and posts I see , is what I call the embracing of 'realism' vs the death of romanticism. I guess that is a topic for a different post... some food for thought kiss I don't think romanticism should die, but I don't think it should cloud the realities either. Because it most often does, and that's when people become disappointed and disillusioned. Romance is wonderful. It doesn’t have to be all about chivalry and white knights. In fact, the etymology of the word romance is all over the board. Romance is a form of writing, and by the 17th century became the language used when writing love stories. In today’s terms, it simply means “an ideal love affair”. Now what is ideal is extremely subjective. My ideal love affair is very different then most. My idea of romance consists of an intimate and open interaction with a man who is incredibly strong mentally, physically and in character, a man who is self-aware and self-actualised, who can express his needs and desires in a respectful manner, who will relish in me challenging him intellectually, spiritually and sexuality and who in return will provide some challenges himself. He will see me as his muse, his goddess, his mistress, his love but will keep both feet on the ground about it. He will see our relationship as a journey where I’m the driver, and he the passenger but won’t expect me to be the only one keeping my eyes on the road. He can't always be looking up at me like a lost little puppy looking for direction. As one of my favourite authors wrote: Aimer, ce n'est pas se regarder l'un l'autre, c'est regarder ensemble dans la même direction. (Translated to English: Love does not consist in gazing at each other but in looking outward together in the same direction.) - Terre des hommes, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry - LA

SweetDommes -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 8:25:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlespike Hi Lady Badger i hope that you are doing well. It was so nice to meet you at the DomConLA. i think that it is great that you are there for your sub. Personally i think that it would be great if more Dommes would take an active interest in the subie's vanilla life. respectfully little spike Who says that we don't? We have simply stated that we don't actively seek out those who have problems that they "need" our help with...

LadyAngelika -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 12:31:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes quote: ORIGINAL: littlespike i think that it is great that you are there for your sub. Personally i think that it would be great if more Dommes would take an active interest in the subie's vanilla life. Who says that we don't? We have simply stated that we don't actively seek out those who have problems that they "need" our help with... Exactly. There is a difference between taking someone as a whole package and going out looking for little wounded birds to fix. Now I want to address something that eluded me earlier. This statement about "it would be great if more Dommes would take an active interest in the subie's vanilla life". Now I have no idea what kind of relationships you have had with dominant women spike, but let me explain this from my perspective. First of all, I personally dislike the term "vanilla life". My personality is not like Neapolitan ice cream. It is not perfectly delineated and divided into flavours, one being vanilla. I am my own unique blend. There is a little vanilla in me, there is a little kink in me, there is a little whore in me, there is a little intellectual in me, there is a little bit of a lot of things. I'm more of a swirl and therefore it's hard to say "ok, this is my vanilla life". I don't have a vanilla life just as much as I don't have a lifestyle life. I don't fragment myself that way. That said, go ahead and use "vanilla life" as much as you like if it works for you. I'm just prefacing my response with that interjection. Now I have to say I care more about the non-kink, non-sex aspects of my boy's life. We talked for 20 minutes on the phone today about going cycling together, his job interview this week and he presented me with 3 options for what he was going to cook me for dinner tonight (he's such a good boy!). Funny we didn't talk about bondage or crop whips or strap-on play. Because that is all secondary. Because that is the icing on the cake, and as he always says "If this was just about sex and kink, it could never have lasted this long. I need it to be so much more." - LA

AAkasha -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 1:25:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes quote: ORIGINAL: littlespike i think that it is great that you are there for your sub. Personally i think that it would be great if more Dommes would take an active interest in the subie's vanilla life. Who says that we don't? We have simply stated that we don't actively seek out those who have problems that they "need" our help with... Exactly. There is a difference between taking someone as a whole package and going out looking for little wounded birds to fix. Now I want to address something that eluded me earlier. This statement about "it would be great if more Dommes would take an active interest in the subie's vanilla life". Now I have no idea what kind of relationships you have had with dominant women spike, but let me explain this from my perspective. First of all, I personally dislike the term "vanilla life". My personality is not like Neapolitan ice cream. It is not perfectly delineated and divided into flavours, one being vanilla. I am my own unique blend. There is a little vanilla in me, there is a little kink in me, there is a little whore in me, there is a little intellectual in me, there is a little bit of a lot of things. I'm more of a swirl and therefore it's hard to say "ok, this is my vanilla life". I don't have a vanilla life just as much as I don't have a lifestyle life. I don't fragment myself that way. That said, go ahead and use "vanilla life" as much as you like if it works for you. I'm just prefacing my response with that interjection. Now I have to say I care more about the non-kink, non-sex aspects of my boy's life. We talked for 20 minutes on the phone today about going cycling together, his job interview this week and he presented me with 3 options for what he was going to cook me for dinner tonight (he's such a good boy!). Funny we didn't talk about bondage or crop whips or strap-on play. Because that is all secondary. Because that is the icing on the cake, and as he always says "If this was just about sex and kink, it could never have lasted this long. I need it to be so much more." - LA In new, emerging relationships I have found that it's harder to find submissive men who care little about the femdom's life other than what is related to her kink. To a degree that it is almost frightening. This is one of the biggest problems I think submissive men have to straighten out when they are "courting" or getting to know a femdom -- that is, talking to her about something OTHER than bdsm or anything kinky. Akasha

ginger21 -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 2:25:06 PM)
I know it takes a lot of time and energy, but does anyone but me find it incredibly romantic to take someone and mold them into what you want them to be?

AAkasha -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 2:32:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ginger21 I know it takes a lot of time and energy, but does anyone but me find it incredibly romantic to take someone and mold them into what you want them to be? It depends on what you are molding. Changing an entire person? No, not a project I want to take on. But I've had experiences where I took a man who had zero experience with bdsm (vanilla to the core), a total clean slate and introduced him to things one at a time, slowly, and showed him how I liked it done -- there were no bad habits to undo. I wasn't changing or altering or "molding" anything about his personality or lifestyle except as it related to our BDSM experiences together. It's the same thing as taking a virgin for a lover -- a complete virgin. Teaching them everything from how to kiss to how you like to be touched and aroused. There are no bad habits to undo, and no hardwiring to unwire. There is also something extremely exciting to being the "first" one to show a man something -- whether it be as simple as being tied up or blindfolded, or taking an anal virgin. That's not to say it's "better" than playing with someone who is experienced as hell -- that has a host of benefits also. Just different. Akasha

GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 4:27:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha In new, emerging relationships I have found that it's harder to find submissive men who care little about the femdom's life other than what is related to her kink. To a degree that it is almost frightening. This is one of the biggest problems I think submissive men have to straighten out when they are "courting" or getting to know a femdom -- that is, talking to her about something OTHER than bdsm or anything kinky. Akasha I couldn't have put it better Myself. Thank you, Aakasha. And yes, it is almost frightening, isn't it?

LadyBadger -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/28/2005 9:11:50 PM)
how I look at my sub is that I am giving him permission to be who/what he's always wanted to be/do... no more, no less... it's a freedom & acceptance he's never experienced... he's lived a sheltered (so to speak) life and now he's seeing a new landscape with fresh eyes through me... I didn't seek him out -- I'm firmly convince that the Universe paired us up for the gifts/talents we have that complement one another... I'm learning as much as he is... [:)] LadyBadger

LadyAngelika -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/29/2005 7:56:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha In new, emerging relationships I have found that it's harder to find submissive men who care little about the femdom's life other than what is related to her kink. To a degree that it is almost frightening. This is one of the biggest problems I think submissive men have to straighten out when they are "courting" or getting to know a femdom -- that is, talking to her about something OTHER than bdsm or anything kinky. Akasha I couldn't have put it better Myself. Thank you, Aakasha. And yes, it is almost frightening, isn't it? It is definitely frightening! How many men care so very little about me and see me as a means to an end of their sexual fantasy. Thank goodness I can spot them a hundred miles away! - LA

LadyAngelika -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (5/29/2005 8:02:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha quote: ORIGINAL: ginger21 I know it takes a lot of time and energy, but does anyone but me find it incredibly romantic to take someone and mold them into what you want them to be? It depends on what you are molding. Changing an entire person? No, not a project I want to take on. But I've had experiences where I took a man who had zero experience with bdsm (vanilla to the core), a total clean slate and introduced him to things one at a time, slowly, and showed him how I liked it done -- there were no bad habits to undo. I wasn't changing or altering or "molding" anything about his personality or lifestyle except as it related to our BDSM experiences together. It's the same thing as taking a virgin for a lover -- a complete virgin. Teaching them everything from how to kiss to how you like to be touched and aroused. There are no bad habits to undo, and no hardwiring to unwire. There is also something extremely exciting to being the "first" one to show a man something -- whether it be as simple as being tied up or blindfolded, or taking an anal virgin. That's not to say it's "better" than playing with someone who is experienced as hell -- that has a host of benefits also. Just different. Akasha This is what I did with my current boy. He knew pretty much nothing about WIITWD but he had quite a bit of curiosity as well as apprehension. It was amazing watching him discover and enjoy. I helped him discover his limits and push some as well. On the flip side, my boy has taught me a lot as well. Before him, I always kept quite an emotional distance between men and me because I of exactly what AAkasha, Dusty and I all agreed on in this thread - men using us as a means to an end. But he made it a safe place for me to let down my guard with him. So in a sense, we modified one another mutually as we learned to grow together. - LA

SadisticPrincess -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (7/18/2005 4:49:40 PM)
Thanks again for pointing out this thread to me, LA! Time and again, I run into male doms who talk about "training" (and of course PUNISHING, their favorite topic) and "molding" and "guiding". Are we dealing with dogs and children here, or consensual adults? I am an adult, and I work with other adults. I am a very loving and nurturing person, a teacher, a clergywoman, but I do not feel motivated to be anyone's mom. Certainly, I will help a submissive with their life issues, if they choose to trust me with them, but I am not interested in taking on someone so personally unformed that they will let ME remake them into something new! (the exception: fashion sense) This has to be a guy thing........ (and the inevitable caveat, I am not dissing actual mommy/daddy age players here)

mselisetoyou -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (7/18/2005 6:19:49 PM)
Kisshou: Isn't it a bit too self-effacing to say that your Master/Mistress doesn't accrue benefits as a result of owning you? I know that it may be a virtue for a submissive to present him/herself as humble, but I'm finding it hard to find the motivation in this POV. Personally, I couldn't muster the strength to serve if I didn't feel that our interactions were mutually beneficial in some way. E

MsElle -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (7/19/2005 3:56:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetDommes I feel that I have grown a lot from our interactions with various boys - you can't help but do so as a healthy person. If you do not grow, then you stagnate and no one wants to hang out with someone like that. Well now, I've think you've gotten to the root of the issue here - the Pygmalionesque approach - if you want to call it that - is generally manifested by kind of delusionally conceited Dom (or Domme on occasion, although I would agree that it is more common in the males) who actually believes that they are single-handedly 'creating' a new person out of their slave - it's a God complex thing. They heart of the problem there is that they really don't think that they have any need to grow themselves. It removes that whole mutual growth experience and makes it just a rediculous display of ego and conceit. It takes a truly stupid person to believe that they have nothing left to learn. Some people here are using the term 'Pygmalionesque' pretty broadly to include any Dom/me who sees their slaves as 'fixer uppers' or 'works in progress' - I think that is a little misleading. We all strive to improve our slaves (and ideally also ourselves) through our training and direction. There will of course be varying degrees of interest or effort involved in that - and people are attracted to both the person as they are and the potential they see when they begin a relationship. For some it is more the person as they are, for others it is more the potential result. But that is not quite the same as the notion that you are creating something new and beautiful where one did not exist before. ~MsElle

LadyAngelika -> RE: Pygmalionesque approach - does it occur much with Dommes? (7/19/2005 4:17:13 PM)
quote: Well now, I've think you've gotten to the root of the issue here - the Pygmalionesque approach - if you want to call it that - is generally manifested by kind of delusionally conceited Dom (or Domme on occasion, although I would agree that it is more common in the males) who actually believes that they are single-handedly 'creating' a new person out of their slave - it's a God complex thing. They heart of the problem there is that they really don't think that they have any need to grow themselves. It removes that whole mutual growth experience and makes it just a rediculous display of ego and conceit. It takes a truly stupid person to believe that they have nothing left to learn. Brilliantly stated Elle. Especially the bit about the heart of the problem being "that they really don't think that they have any need to grow themselves". I really think you hit the nail on the head with that one. - LA

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