G-8 protesters clash with German police

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Level -> G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/2/2007 3:49:34 PM)
G-8 protesters clash with German police By DAVID RISING, Associated Press WriterSat Jun 2, 3:31 PM ET Protesters with black hoods and bandanas covering their faces showered police with rocks and beer bottles Saturday, before the heavily armored officers drove them back with water cannon and tear gas during a rally against an upcoming Group of Eight summit. Black smoke from burning cars mingled with the sting of tear gas in the harbor-front area of the northern German town of Rostock, where tens of thousands of people had gathered peacefully at the start of the day. The clashes broke out among hundreds of stone-throwing demonstrators and police on the edges of the crowd as the rally progressed. Some 146 police were hurt, 25 of them seriously. Police said they made 17 arrests. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070602/ap_on_re_eu/g8_demonstration&printer=1;_ylt=Appv_BPuRZy3tZDL0gOjQjlbbBAF

pahunkboy -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/2/2007 5:47:46 PM)
Go for it! here in lies the real importance towards decline in standard of living- the globaliztion game. names-faces and puppets will change- the dance remains the same.

selfbnd411 -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/2/2007 5:55:16 PM)
These guys always crack me up. Do they really think that globalization can be stopped by burning cars and throwing rocks? I don't believe that globalization is the solution to all problems, but neither is it the root of all evil. The article only offers the explanation that the protesters think that "other worlds are possible." I suppose the G-8 nations are supposed to throw money at the undeveloped nations? Or maybe we're supposed to stop producing so much technology that improves the standard of living? Whatever--the only proper policy for nations to pursue is to follow their own self-interests, and in doing so, they find a community of interests that all can live with.

Level -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/2/2007 5:59:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Go for it! here in lies the real importance towards decline in standard of living- the globaliztion game. names-faces and puppets will change- the dance remains the same. "Going for it" involved hurting over 100 police officers, some seriously. I would hope the protestors could find more peaceable means of getting their point across.

pahunkboy -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/2/2007 6:09:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 These guys always crack me up. Do they really think that globalization can be stopped by burning cars and throwing rocks? I don't believe that globalization is the solution to all problems, but neither is it the root of all evil. The article only offers the explanation that the protesters think that "other worlds are possible." I suppose the G-8 nations are supposed to throw money at the undeveloped nations? Or maybe we're supposed to stop producing so much technology that improves the standard of living? Whatever--the only proper policy for nations to pursue is to follow their own self-interests, and in doing so, they find a community of interests that all can live with. How do you suggest reigning in the corporate beasts?

selfbnd411 -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/2/2007 6:13:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy How do you suggest reigning in the corporate beasts? I don't think they're all that bad, frankly. I'm a small investor and I listen to the conference calls. These guys are too busy trying to keep Wall Street happy to have enough time to take over the world. Businesses shouldn't have a conscience imo. Government should. I would suggest electing representatives whose political philosophies align with your own if you're unhappy with the corporations. I am...I'm voting for Edwards. But until then, I want Altria and Boeing to sell as many cigarettes and missiles as they possibly can and make as much money for me as they possibly can.

pahunkboy -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/2/2007 6:14:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Go for it! here in lies the real importance towards decline in standard of living- the globaliztion game. names-faces and puppets will change- the dance remains the same. "Going for it" involved hurting over 100 police officers, some seriously. I would hope the protestors could find more peaceable means of getting their point across. if you get a chance take a look at free speech tv- re the Seattle riots. nonlethal force is still icky. the police. unfortunately are pawns as are the military. no one has found a way to ----have a voice. the deck is stacked and the casino always wins...... if it were up to me- I would start dechartering some of the corps.

NorthernGent -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/3/2007 4:08:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy Go for it! here in lies the real importance towards decline in standard of living- the globaliztion game. names-faces and puppets will change- the dance remains the same. "Going for it" involved hurting over 100 police officers, some seriously. I would hope the protestors could find more peaceable means of getting their point across. Thing is...the militants make up a tiny proportion of anti-globalisation protesters. The media focus on this tiny proportion and the status quo supporters lap it all up. All good propaganda. What they fail to recognise is the hundreds of thousands of people from all walks of life who are peacefully protesting against capitalism usurping democracy. These people are finding a peaceful method.

meatcleaver -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/3/2007 4:33:12 AM)
Globalisation is a runaway steam train that can't be stopped. For those that don't like the way it is shaping up, it would be better to work to mould it into something they can live with rather than trying the impossible of stopping it. International cooperation is vital, from everything from climate change to international law to addressing poverty. Burying oneself behind the false paradise of national borders is pointless. One thing is for certain, less people go to bed hungry because of globalisation than they did when national borders ruled. There are a lot of problems with international capitalism but wishing it would go away won't stop it. Just as laissez faire capitalism needed citizens to mobilise to mutate it into something acceptable so it is true now. People need to organize across borders and forge internationlism into something that all can live with.

NorthernGent -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/3/2007 5:04:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Globalisation is a runaway steam train that can't be stopped. For those that don't like the way it is shaping up, it would be better to work to mould it into something they can live with rather than trying the impossible of stopping it. International cooperation is vital, from everything from climate change to international law to addressing poverty. Burying oneself behind the false paradise of national borders is pointless. One thing is for certain, less people go to bed hungry because of globalisation than they did when national borders ruled. There are a lot of problems with international capitalism but wishing it would go away won't stop it. Just as laissez faire capitalism needed citizens to mobilise to mutate it into something acceptable so it is true now. People need to organize across borders and forge internationlism into something that all can live with. Internationalism isn't the issue, people are protesting against the power of corporations and the temporary death of democracy. If the government work for corporations then there isn't democracy or freedom. Whichever way you vote you will get rule by the unelected few in the upper echelons of the business world. No one has a problem with internationalism, peace, prosperity, democracy, rule of law etc, but that's not what we're getting - we're getting rule by corporations. Basically, the kings and queens have been replaced by the banks and multinationals.

cyberdude611 -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/3/2007 7:02:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Globalisation is a runaway steam train that can't be stopped. For those that don't like the way it is shaping up, it would be better to work to mould it into something they can live with rather than trying the impossible of stopping it. International cooperation is vital, from everything from climate change to international law to addressing poverty. Burying oneself behind the false paradise of national borders is pointless. One thing is for certain, less people go to bed hungry because of globalisation than they did when national borders ruled. There are a lot of problems with international capitalism but wishing it would go away won't stop it. Just as laissez faire capitalism needed citizens to mobilise to mutate it into something acceptable so it is true now. People need to organize across borders and forge internationlism into something that all can live with. Arn't most people that protest the G-8 doing it to protest the rich international capitalist system? I'm sure there are anti-globalization protesters there...but I always thought most of the protesters are socialists.

meatcleaver -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/4/2007 12:54:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Internationalism isn't the issue, people are protesting against the power of corporations and the temporary death of democracy. If the government work for corporations then there isn't democracy or freedom. Whichever way you vote you will get rule by the unelected few in the upper echelons of the business world. No one has a problem with internationalism, peace, prosperity, democracy, rule of law etc, but that's not what we're getting - we're getting rule by corporations. Basically, the kings and queens have been replaced by the banks and multinationals. Every time the EU tries to control mutinationals, the British government complains and accuses the EU pof being undemocratic while it is the British government (amongst others) that want to keep the EU undemocratic so it lacks legitimacy. People keep voting in governments that support corporations and don't want institutions that can control them.

Vendaval -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/4/2007 1:32:59 AM)
General reply - Remember the 1999 WTO Protests in Seattle? "Seattle cracks down on protestors with second night of tear gas" "Clinton urges WTO to be more open" December 1, 1999 Web posted at: 11:30 p.m. EST (0430 GMT) SEATTLE (CNN) -- Shortly after President Clinton told the World Trade Organization conference that "shared prosperity" would make the world a "safer place," helmeted police fired volleys of tear gas on the streets of Seattle. The gas was used on a crowd that had gathered just outside a 50-block downtown area that police had earlier designated a restricted zone. As the tear gas canisters were launched Wednesday evening, lines of helmeted riot police wielding batons moved through the streets. Some of those caught up in the clashes appeared to be bystanders. "For your own safety, clear the area now," one police officer shouted through a bullhorn. Seattle Police Chief Norm Stamper said a group of about 150 to 250 protesters began "moving into the downtown area" Wednesday night prompting the police tactics. The demonstrators, he told reporters, "took to the streets once again in violation of the standards that we have set today, which is basically no authorization to block traffic, to block emergency vehicles." http://archives.cnn.com/1999/US/12/01/wto.07/

pahunkboy -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/4/2007 9:02:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Vendaval General reply - Remember the 1999 WTO Protests in Seattle? "Seattle cracks down on protestors with second night of tear gas" "Clinton urges WTO to be more open" December 1, 1999 Web posted at: 11:30 p.m. EST (0430 GMT) SEATTLE (CNN) -- Shortly after President Clinton told the World Trade Organization conference that "shared prosperity" would make the world a "safer place," helmeted police fired volleys of tear gas on the streets of Seattle. The gas was used on a crowd that had gathered just outside a 50-block downtown area that police had earlier designated a restricted zone. As the tear gas canisters were launched Wednesday evening, lines of helmeted riot police wielding batons moved through the streets. Some of those caught up in the clashes appeared to be bystanders. "For your own safety, clear the area now," one police officer shouted through a bullhorn. Seattle Police Chief Norm Stamper said a group of about 150 to 250 protesters began "moving into the downtown area" Wednesday night prompting the police tactics. The demonstrators, he told reporters, "took to the streets once again in violation of the standards that we have set today, which is basically no authorization to block traffic, to block emergency vehicles." http://archives.cnn.com/1999/US/12/01/wto.07/ Precissely! I like Bill. BUT- it is worth digging out on this. Person after person went before the towns meeting on this. to testify over police tactics. there is a documentary where police came into the neighborhoods and bullied folks standing on there own lawns!!! cut to New York- the protestors had to be in a free speech zone??? the whole of America is free speech or so i thought. when they throw these meetings they know well ibn advance they are pushing it. the amazing thing is that in 99 the world was shocked. one could say that even tho i support law and order- there is a time and place for anarcky.

philosophy -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/4/2007 9:11:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Arn't most people that protest the G-8 doing it to protest the rich international capitalist system? I'm sure there are anti-globalization protesters there...but I always thought most of the protesters are socialists. ......perhaps they can be defined as 'socialist' if one comes from a position that suggests that all state organised action is, by its very nature, socialist. However, from a less radical viewpoint, the protesters are a mixed bunch ranging from, yes, socialists to anarchists to anti-globalists to charities. There are probably a few libertarians and full blown commies there too.

NorthernGent -> RE: G-8 protesters clash with German police (6/4/2007 1:39:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Internationalism isn't the issue, people are protesting against the power of corporations and the temporary death of democracy. If the government work for corporations then there isn't democracy or freedom. Whichever way you vote you will get rule by the unelected few in the upper echelons of the business world. No one has a problem with internationalism, peace, prosperity, democracy, rule of law etc, but that's not what we're getting - we're getting rule by corporations. Basically, the kings and queens have been replaced by the banks and multinationals. Every time the EU tries to control mutinationals, the British government complains and accuses the EU pof being undemocratic while it is the British government (amongst others) that want to keep the EU undemocratic so it lacks legitimacy. People keep voting in governments that support corporations and don't want institutions that can control them. lol Meat, any old chance to bring in the EU. Be honest here, the current EU is not democratic. You can't elect the commission, and no thanks to democracy by proxy. Not wanting the current EU is not the same as propping up the status quo. The current EU is part of the status quo. In a nutshell, if you had two chambers full of elected politicians accountable to the people, then I'd go for it. To do this, you would have to abolish the Commission, the Council of Ministers and the Central Bank in Frankfurt. I think you're wrong to assume the EU can save Europeans from the multinationals because the European Commision is little more than a regional agent of globalisation, enforcing the diktats of the Central Bank. The Germans are no more or less able and willing to stand up to the corporations than the British. Their top firms threaten to move production abroad to prevent public programmes. Their bankers threaten to hike up interest rates so politicians balk at the social and political costs of such action, and their finance minister claims "the heart is not traded on the stock market yet" as a parting shot on resignation. In sum, there is nothing to suggest the Germans and French are better placed to get a grip on the situation.

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