RE: leaving the Union

RE: leaving the Union (Full Version)

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slaverosebeauty -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 3:41:08 PM)
Cali can leave, then most of you would be SCREWED. {rofl} Think of all the things you guys would have to 'import' from us. Most of the food comes from here, movies, etc. Its been a running joke for years though, Cali could survive on its own as a country.

cyberdude611 -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 3:45:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Cali can leave, then most of you would be SCREWED. {rofl} Think of all the things you guys would have to 'import' from us. Most of the food comes from here, movies, etc. Its been a running joke for years though, Cali could survive on its own as a country. So could Texas, Florida, and New York. In fact, most Texans think Texas is its own country.

Kurzon -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 3:45:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Cali can leave, then most of you would be SCREWED. {rofl} Think of all the things you guys would have to 'import' from us. Most of the food comes from here, movies, etc. Its been a running joke for years though, Cali could survive on its own as a country. while some of that may be true - cali would have to buy its water from the rest of us to continue to grow the food ect ect...

Lordandmaster -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 3:47:44 PM)
Then I say good for the Civil War, because if the "Original Intent of the Founding Fathers" (love those caps) was to allow slavery, the Founding Fathers were wrong. I'm done with this one. Buh bye. quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster OK, whatever, I'm not getting into that discussion (since we've had it on here more than once), but the fact remains that if the federal government had kept out of the states' business, as you seem to think they should have, slavery would have been allowed to continue in the South. it is not that we seam to think that - it is that it was clearly laid out in the Constitution that the states were to have the right to govern themselves. Regardless of how you, me, or joe blow down the street feels, the Original Intent of the Founding Fathers was to have the states govern themselves - and if you did not like the way your states laws were, your choices were to elect new representation or move to a state that did match your views.

Kurzon -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 3:49:29 PM)
you have got to love the power of propaganda - 150 years later and the general public still focuses on slavery

philosophy -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 3:53:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon you have got to love the power of propaganda - 150 years later and the general public still focuses on slavery ...perhaps because its abolition made people feel better about themselves.......

Kurzon -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 3:57:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon you have got to love the power of propaganda - 150 years later and the general public still focuses on slavery ...perhaps because its abolition made people feel better about themselves....... now do not get me wrong - I am glad that slavery was abolished - but I do not agree with how it was done any more than I agree with how the "patriot act" is being used as a sword to destroy our rights

dcnovice -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 3:59:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon you have got to love the power of propaganda - 150 years later and the general public still focuses on slavery ...perhaps because its abolition made people feel better about themselves....... Or perhaps it's because, let's be honest here, slavery was the issue that dominated the 1840s, 1850s, and 1860s.

cyberdude611 -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:00:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon you have got to love the power of propaganda - 150 years later and the general public still focuses on slavery ...perhaps because its abolition made people feel better about themselves....... Or perhaps it's because, let's be honest here, slavery was the issue that dominated the 1840s, 1850s, and 1860s. So was taxes...

Kurzon -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:01:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon you have got to love the power of propaganda - 150 years later and the general public still focuses on slavery ...perhaps because its abolition made people feel better about themselves....... Or perhaps it's because, let's be honest here, slavery was the issue that dominated the 1840s, 1850s, and 1860s. more accurately it dominates the history books dealing with the 1840's '50's and '60's and we all know that history is written by the victors

philosophy -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:01:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon now do not get me wrong - I am glad that slavery was abolished - but I do not agree with how it was done any more than I agree with how the "patriot act" is being used as a sword to destroy our rights ...how would you have liked to see slavery abolished?

slaverosebeauty -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:02:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Cali can leave, then most of you would be SCREWED. {rofl} Think of all the things you guys would have to 'import' from us. Most of the food comes from here, movies, etc. Its been a running joke for years though, Cali could survive on its own as a country. while some of that may be true - cali would have to buy its water from the rest of us to continue to grow the food ect ect... Nope. Cali has its own water, mountains and lots of them. Besides, the cost of 'imported' food from Cali to the rest of the country would go up. What I said IS true, the Central Valley provides a LOT of the world's food. In one state, you can and do have a temperature range of 50 or more. Plus the cost of the rest of the country to go and see mvoies would go up, import taxes and all. lol

dcnovice -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:03:10 PM)
Do you honestly think the southern states would have seceded about anything other than slavery?

slaverosebeauty -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:05:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 quote: ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty Cali can leave, then most of you would be SCREWED. {rofl} Think of all the things you guys would have to 'import' from us. Most of the food comes from here, movies, etc. Its been a running joke for years though, Cali could survive on its own as a country. So could Texas, Florida, and New York. In fact, most Texans think Texas is its own country. Are you trying to say that Cali, Texas, Florida AND New York are NOT seperate countries?? I thought we all succeeded years ago. I've been out of school for too long. lol Heck, aroudn here, most of us think that Los Angelos IS a seperate country at times.

Kurzon -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:06:48 PM)
honestly I could write a book on reasons to secede and another on reasons not to - there were many reasons and many parallel the Revolutionary War ( taxes being first among them)

UtopianRanger -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:07:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aviinterra In tiny Vermont, a movement to leave the troubled Union is slowly gaining steam, and might actually be up for vote soon. Man.... I love the defiant spirit of Vermont. I hope they break from the union and tell their citizenry that all federal entities /agents should be thought-of /treated-as persona non grata. The governor could then order all the banks and the citizenry not to comply any IRS code. Hearing about this has made my day -- This crooked Federal government needs to be subverted in every way possible [;)] - R

Kurzon -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:09:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon now do not get me wrong - I am glad that slavery was abolished - but I do not agree with how it was done any more than I agree with how the "patriot act" is being used as a sword to destroy our rights ...how would you have liked to see slavery abolished? I believe cyberdude611 has addressed that issue quite well

dcnovice -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:24:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kurzon honestly I could write a book on reasons to secede and another on reasons not to - there were many reasons and many parallel the Revolutionary War ( taxes being first among them) No doubt, but I still think slavery was the issue that drove everyone to the breaking point.

Kurzon -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:26:54 PM)
could it be that you think that because you were taught that in school - and they use books aproved by (written by) the victors of the war?

domiguy -> RE: leaving the Union (6/4/2007 4:28:20 PM)
It would be comforting if we could "lose" all of the states south of the Mason Dixon.

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