RE: "Gift of Submission"

RE: "Gift of Submission" (Full Version)

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RCdc -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/10/2007 3:50:57 PM)
quote: I don't know whether you are agreeing or disagreeing. I am only saying that, if you are a true slave, you must have the mindset and the desire to give to someone without any expectation. There is no elite movement of 'true' submissives or slaves. And all consensual slavery, submission and domination is selfish. Even no expectation is an expectation. Peace the.dark.

KatyLied -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/10/2007 4:05:06 PM)
quote: I am only saying that, if you are a true slave, you must have the mindset and the desire to give to someone without any expectation. A life without expectations holds no interest or value to me.

addicted2it -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/10/2007 4:15:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied quote: I am only saying that, if you are a true slave, you must have the mindset and the desire to give to someone without any expectation. A life without expectations holds no interest or value to me. Katy, your honesty and ability to cut through the BS is most refreshing, as well as a quality to be admired, and that is what I like about you!

KatyLied -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/10/2007 4:20:18 PM)
Wow, thank you.

addicted2it -> RE: "Gift of Submission" and a change of heart (6/10/2007 6:09:52 PM)
Katy, I do not know if you remember this, but you and I had a rather heated exchange of opinions regarding submission as a gift. But the more I thought about what you said, the more I came to agree with you that submission is basically an exchange of power. So, it can be said that you succeeded in changing my mind, and I appreciate you for it. That said, I have always been impressed with women who have the strength of character and the courage to voice their opinions and core beliefs, whether those opinions are popular or not. Women like yourself will be the deciding factor that will eventually free all women from the yoke of repression; and by way of the expression of your own opinions, what you say and do will help all women assume their rightful place in society, which should also include receiving equal pay and benefits for equal work. [Edited because I can!]

VeryMercurial -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/10/2007 6:20:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlespicyone I've always thought of my submission as a gift ... as is something I'm good at. I've also spoken about submission as a gift because in taking a collar I GIVE myself and power over me to the Dom. All semantics aside, I've given something precious to abother person and so it is a gift. I don't do it for gratitude and I don't do it so I can have power over someone else ... if I wanted power I'd be a Dom, right? Mostly, though, I use the term because it's "Lifestyle speak" for just because you have a dick doesn't mean I'm going to submit to you. I also think it conveys my need for an intimate relationship and not just a no-strings, kinky sex thing. Just because I have the need to submit and someone else has the need to dominate, doesn't make the giving of oneself and one's choices any less special or important, if that were the case then what would be the point of developing a D/s relationship? If all it consists of is two people's needs for dominance or submission being met, then we could all just pick someone up at the bar and dominate/submit to her/him. I think it also emphasises that giving myself is something that I don't do lightly and it lets the Dom know that I do expect to be taken care of ... the way anyone would take care of a special gift that s/he'd been given. My mom gave me a ring ... she did it because she knew I would like it and wanted me to have it. It's a special gift and I take very good care of it. That's the kind of feeling I want to convey when I use the phrase in question. Lastly, it emphasizes in my mind that I am His. You don't give someone a gift and then take it back just because you feel like it. By giving the gift of myself, I've trusted Him with everything that I am and have and that's important to me. It often seems to me that the men who use the term "gift of submission" tend to use it to really mean "gift of yourself" which is how I see it. I can give submission to anyone, and do on a regular basis -- at work, at school, at home, at church -- but I don't give myself to just anyone. The men who don't really see it as a gift or as anything but a right granted to them by nature and the fact that they have a penis are the men I want to avoid ... and I do so by using the gift terminology. Well stated littlespicyone, real submission to me can be called a gift. A special gift that is to be treasured. I have no problem calling it a gift, and cherishing the gift when I am given it.

charmdpetKeira -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/10/2007 7:58:17 PM)
Oh goody, something I can answer, that I have a different opinion on this time around. I once thought along the lines; while I did not think the act of submitting, was necessarily a “gift”, the fact that the sub offers themselves to a specific Dom was sugnificant, hence possibly making the submissive the “gift” themselves. I also felt that if this was the case, the Dominate accepting control over said sub was offering the same, in a different manner. Perhaps this line of thinking came from the way my first relationship in D/s started. More recently though, actually just now; I realized, I would not be finding a new owner in the same manner, as the first. The one I submit to this time, will earn my trust in a more overall manner, as I now have a very good idea, of what I am looking for. In this line of thinking, he will earn what is given, and therefore it is not a gift or reward, but what is rightfully his. I would presume it will take the same effort on my part to earn his trust, and my right, to be owned by him. For me, submission is not a need, something I can’t do without; it is what I desire, something I yearn for, but only with the one who is able, and willing to fulfill all of my needs. Sincerely, k

addicted2it -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/10/2007 8:13:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: VeryMercurial quote: ORIGINAL: littlespicyone I've always thought of my submission as a gift ... as is something I'm good at. I've also spoken about submission as a gift because in taking a collar I GIVE myself and power over me to the Dom. All semantics aside, I've given something precious to abother person and so it is a gift. I don't do it for gratitude and I don't do it so I can have power over someone else ... if I wanted power I'd be a Dom, right? Mostly, though, I use the term because it's "Lifestyle speak" for just because you have a dick doesn't mean I'm going to submit to you. I also think it conveys my need for an intimate relationship and not just a no-strings, kinky sex thing. Just because I have the need to submit and someone else has the need to dominate, doesn't make the giving of oneself and one's choices any less special or important, if that were the case then what would be the point of developing a D/s relationship? If all it consists of is two people's needs for dominance or submission being met, then we could all just pick someone up at the bar and dominate/submit to her/him. I think it also emphasises that giving myself is something that I don't do lightly and it lets the Dom know that I do expect to be taken care of ... the way anyone would take care of a special gift that s/he'd been given. My mom gave me a ring ... she did it because she knew I would like it and wanted me to have it. It's a special gift and I take very good care of it. That's the kind of feeling I want to convey when I use the phrase in question. Lastly, it emphasizes in my mind that I am His. You don't give someone a gift and then take it back just because you feel like it. By giving the gift of myself, I've trusted Him with everything that I am and have and that's important to me. It often seems to me that the men who use the term "gift of submission" tend to use it to really mean "gift of yourself" which is how I see it. I can give submission to anyone, and do on a regular basis -- at work, at school, at home, at church -- but I don't give myself to just anyone. The men who don't really see it as a gift or as anything but a right granted to them by nature and the fact that they have a penis are the men I want to avoid ... and I do so by using the gift terminology. Well stated littlespicyone, real submission to me can be called a gift. A special gift that is to be treasured. I have no problem calling it a gift, and cherishing the gift when I am given it. IMO, the submission that you appreciate and adhere to appears to have a very strong love component, and there is a gap or misunderstanding when attempting to define whether or not submission is a gift. If the submission originates from a completely unselfish motive, maybe you can say that it IS a gift. OTOH, if the submission is based upon reciprocation, then it is definately NOT a gift, but a contract between two individuals who have agreed to give and recieve satisfaction from the personal interaction that they are involved in. I hate having to classify this definition as "legalese," but specifics are very often required when explaining the very intricate details that comprise very delicate and controversial subject matter. For those of us who understand topping and bottoming, that situation is primarily based upon the administering of pain and the receiving of pain; and from my understanding, there is no submission involved, other than the willingness of the bottom to accept the pain and the desire of the top to administer that pain. WIth a Dom/Domme, submissive/slave interaction, there very well could be, and often is, a love component involved. And who are we to define what love is or is not? Most of us understand that there are many forms and definitions of love. And with that in mind, does a slave NOT love his or her Mistress? Of course, each situation is different, but there is usually some facit of love which may or may not develop over the course of time and with the close and personal interaction between Master or Mistress and slave. Again, 2 cents worth.

addicted2it -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/10/2007 8:36:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira Oh goody, something I can answer, that I have a different opinion on this time around. I once thought along the lines; while I did not think the act of submitting, was necessarily a “gift”, the fact that the sub offers themselves to a specific Dom was sugnificant, hence possibly making the submissive the “gift” themselves. A very romantic point of view about your submission, which isn't necessarily wrong. But it was certainly a reflection of how you perceived the dominant/submissive experience at that time in the evolution of your submission. quote: I also felt that if this was the case, the Dominate accepting control over said sub was offering the same, in a different manner. Perhaps this line of thinking came from the way my first relationship in D/s started. It is natural that we take what we learn from past experiences and incorporate them into new ones. It is important to realize and the acceptance that life is a is a continual learning experience; and that we really need to adapt to the changes that come our way, which I believe you successfully accomplished in your second relationship. quote: More recently though, actually just now; I realized, I would not be finding a new owner in the same manner, as the first. The one I submit to this time, will earn my trust in a more overall manner, as I now have a very good idea, of what I am looking for. It is gratifying that you have gained wisdom from your past successes and losses. quote: In this line of thinking, he will earn what is given, and therefore it is not a gift or reward, but what is rightfully his. I would presume it will take the same effort on my part to earn his trust, and my right, to be owned by him. It is obvious from your writing that you have learned a most valuable lesson, which is to look upon yourself with pride, and to not settle for less than you deserve, even if you are a submissive. quote: For me, submission is not a need, something I can’t do without; it is what I desire, something I yearn for, but only with the one who is able, and willing to fulfill all of my needs. Sincerely, k Hmmm, K. I love a woman who knows who she is and what she wants out of life. I am not religous, but spiritual. However, I do wish you many blessings and continuing happiness in your life.

charmdpetKeira -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/11/2007 3:59:34 AM)
quote: A very romantic point of view about your submission, which isn't necessarily wrong. But it was certainly a reflection of how you perceived the dominant/submissive experience at that time in the evolution of your submission. Perhaps, more like, factual to the situation. It was my first D/s relationship, I was completely new to this. With no idea, if I was even looking in the right place, never mind what I was supposed to look for. At that time, my approach was to find/wait for someone I thought would do the least harm. (I did say I was new) ;) quote: It is natural that we take what we learn from past experiences and incorporate them into new ones. It is important to realize and the acceptance that life is a is a continual learning experience; and that we really need to adapt to the changes that come our way, which I believe you successfully accomplished in your second relationship. smiles That was actually all one relationship. quote: It is gratifying that you have gained wisdom from your past successes and losses. Thank you. quote: It is obvious from your writing that you have learned a most valuable lesson, which is to look upon yourself with pride, and to not settle for less than you deserve, even if you are a submissive. smiles probably a couple. lessons. ;) quote: I am not religous, but spiritual. Same here. However, I do wish you many blessings and continuing happiness in your life. Thank you, best wishes to you as well, Sincerely, k

dawntreader -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/11/2007 5:24:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: fyreredsub uhmmmmmmmm would an oral tip be appropriate?[8D] You betcha! [;)]

WillowRain -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/11/2007 5:37:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple My Robert..... he's so beautiful. I've never felt so fulfilled in a BDSM realationship. *The gift he gives to me is TRUST; Submission follows trust.* Lovely, beautiful sentiment. I would agree, but then I'm a trust fetishist. Trust is the gift, and I happen to think it flows both ways, up the power diferential and down.

charmdpetKeira -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/11/2007 5:57:26 AM)
quote: Trust is the gift Not meant in disagreement; I was hoping you would share with me your point of view. Would you please tell me how you see something that is earned, as a gift? Sincerely, k

Mystique567 -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/12/2007 3:53:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Wrong. Anyone who refers to it as a "gift" is violating the very clear rules laid down the the Big Book of Everything. Why are people so poorly informed? I am still looking for the book

juliaoceania -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/12/2007 4:01:01 PM)
I had not responded to this thread because I felt I would only be reiterating past opinions, but it never ceases to amaze me that "gift" threads spawn so much controversy as to end up pages upon pages long with those who ridicule those who feel something is a "gift". I just do not get it! So submission is a gift to you, give that gift to the person you feel most deserving of it. Ok submission is not a gift to you, don't refer to it as such... it really is all semantics anyways. What is a little surprising is that the same people I normally agree with when it comes to labeling WIITWD, and each other, seem to take a total opposite stand when it comes to labeling submission as a "gift". I do not see why the need to ridicule people for the beliefs that keep them happy and warm at night.. it isn't hurting anyone that people refer to submission in this way, why the hostility?

Politesub53 -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/12/2007 4:36:41 PM)
Hi Julia, while i agree with what you say. Isnt this what makes a forum ? the fact of so many diverse answers ?..... The part i dont like is when people get personal. Unjust and uncalled for.

addicted2it -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/12/2007 6:56:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I had not responded to this thread because I felt I would only be reiterating past opinions, but it never ceases to amaze me that "gift" threads spawn so much controversy as to end up pages upon pages long with those who ridicule those who feel something is a "gift". I just do not get it! So submission is a gift to you, give that gift to the person you feel most deserving of it. Ok submission is not a gift to you, don't refer to it as such... it really is all semantics anyways. What is a little surprising is that the same people I normally agree with when it comes to labeling WIITWD, and each other, seem to take a total opposite stand when it comes to labeling submission as a "gift". I do not see why the need to ridicule people for the beliefs that keep them happy and warm at night.. it isn't hurting anyone that people refer to submission in this way, why the hostility? Not to be contradictory to your opinion or anyone else's, but philosophically, isn't the pure essence of giving a gift to someone and act of love or respect without the expectation of receiving something in return? While it is altruistic and an unselfish to gift something to someone without any expectations, do we not receive something in return, even if it is the gratification of making that person happy? I think that all of us have certain expectations that define our relationships, because if we did not, and I have said this before, there would be no payoff.

subsa -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/12/2007 7:36:03 PM)
haven't read the thread yet. my first response to the op is this... my submission is a gift but not from me to my Master. my submission is a gift that HE gives to me.

angelic -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/12/2007 7:38:42 PM)
i do not come to "Him" in a pretty pink, perfect package. i come as i am with all my faults and imperfect self. He will either accept as i am....not for what he can make me.... or he will not. i do not believe that what i have to offer is a gift, i do think it special. i have no issue with those that believe it to be a gift they are giving, i just do not happen to feel that way.

MissOchistic -> RE: "Gift of Submission" (6/12/2007 7:56:35 PM)
To me it is not a gift, because a gift is something you get for nothing. "Oh, it's your birthday? Here, have some cake and submission." If I have submitted to a Dom/me, you can believe they have damn well earned it ~.^

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