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Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 5/30/2005 10:15:46 AM

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I think eager submissives make a big mistake in courting femdoms when they try such a broad, general (sometimes desperate) approach of obviously looking for *anyone* who will dominate him. I'm sure I am not the only femdom that has been approached at a party or event and "hit on" by a sub -- the same sub you saw hitting on just about every other woman there -- asking them all the same thing -- would she dominate him?

This is perhaps just a casual play reference -- but, some subs do use this approach in general. That is, approach a femdom, any femdom, as long as she is female and dominant, and if one says yes, then go to the next step of compatibility. This is really common online.

My suggestion for submissives who are looking for a *relationship* is that you first identify the femdom you admire for her specific qualities, and approach her in a way that makes it clear you are not just randomly hitting on any woman who might dominate you. This will set you apart from the herd immediately.

At the very least, when at a place like collarme.com, it goes a long way if you start your email off by commenting on something specific to her profile that shows you see something unique in her -- and are not sending a form letter.

Male subs complain that the odds are so stacked against them because of the huge numbers of wannabe subs, wankers and schmucks competing for the attention of a small group of eligible women. I can assure you that you will stand out immediately if you are honestly seeking the attention of one lady -- for a specific reason -- and not just throwing mud against the wall to see if anything sticks.

Akasha

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RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 5/30/2005 11:03:49 AM

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Don't forget that there are many who just want to get laid. So therefor they have multiple profiles of being a dom, being a sub, being a switch and they are hitting on every one they can to try and get sex. They will message all the subs as a dom and all the doms as a sub based on yeah I'll have sex with that anyway I can get it.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 5/30/2005 9:55:35 PM

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I rarely, if ever, hit on anyone. I'm just not comfortable doing so.

Last week, someone in my area posted a very nice profile that resonated in me and I felt like she was exactly what I was seeking, so for the first time in many months I actually sent a well-composed letter to her in hopes of further communication. It was ignored. Obviously, not all contacts are bilateral and one cannot interest someone who doesn't respond to a first impression favorably.

Unfortunately, that's quite often the result of such a contact. I guess if I was one of the ones who writes to every woman that posts a profile, I'd probably have better luck, but I don't have that methodology. I do, however, believe that for someone to be successful (specifically a male sub), that person pretty much has to put out quite a net and see what falls into it. Again, I'm not sure I'd be all that comfortable with that.

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(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/4/2005 6:35:23 PM

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I wish I had the eloquence that my Dominant does in posting on these things.. this was something we were just talking about recently with a Female Dominant friend of O/ours. We were at Her house and just talking normal lifestyle things and got into the area of Female Dominants. I think Female Dominants tend to get more of the HNG factor then most male Dominants as there are so many true female Dominants out there. If a person the same person put up an add as a female dominant and as a male dominant, which would get more hits? The female Dominant. There are fewer out there. I may have to pass this topic onto my Sir as He can word this MUCH better than me, LOL...

Hopefully ya'all get my point, LOL..

syn~SD~ (with the brain freeze)

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/4/2005 6:53:31 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: synrgy33
I think Female Dominants tend to get more of the HNG factor then most male Dominants as there are so many true female Dominants out there.

erm... I think dommes get so many HNG messages because HNG is largely a guy thing. I think female subs get plenty of HNG messages from guys claiming to be doms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Akasha
Male subs complain that the odds are so stacked against them because of the huge numbers of wannabe subs, wankers and schmucks competing for the attention of a small group of eligible women. I can assure you that you will stand out immediately if you are honestly seeking the attention of one lady -- for a specific reason -- and not just throwing mud against the wall to see if anything sticks.

Yep, as always Akasha is offering up sound advice. Online messages are just vapor - we need to show that we are real, we need to refer to concrete things such as the other person's own words. It helps us to step out of the shadows and into the light.

(in reply to synrgy33)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/4/2005 8:23:23 PM

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I agree with what AAkasha says completely; but with respect, I think there's a bit more to say. Meetings between Dominant women and submissive men are inherently complicated and the Internet only serves to exacerbate the problem. I'm leaving out discussing any other female/male combination for the sake of simplicity.

First off, being Dominant is not a visible trait that has firmly established identifying signs but being a female is readily discerned 98% of the time. Of course, if one is at a BDSM event, then this becomes moot but in a general public situation it's almost impossible. My point here is that males (those who are sincerely trying) must find a specific "Dominant" female from the general population with little or nothing to go on...even our instincts aren't much help. Because this lifestyle is not accepted and very misunderstood, meeting through public channels is not going to bring one in contact with Dominants even if they are standing right next to you because everyone needs to protect their identity.

I think it's for this reason that so many males come to a place like Collarme and think they will be able to contact a host of Dominant females and find success quickly. This website and others like it give the impression one can just browse the profiles like a catalog and send emails to every one that looks promising. I'm almost certain there are many males out there doing just this.

Of course, this ignores all the males out there who are not sincere or simply looking for a thrill. I think it's valid for sincere males to feel the frustration of being needles in a virtual haystack but they should not make it a habit of complaining about it. Any Dominant who's sincere and been online for roughly a month has already discovered this problem through the mass of emails she's received or uninvited IM's popping up on her monitor. She doesn't need to hear about it and probably doesn't count it as a sign of a male's sincerity just because he brings it up.

So what AAkasha is saying is very sound advice. It's much better to find a profile where a connection of sorts is felt and respond accordingly. Let that connection you are feeling come through in your introduction. It will go far in establishing the beginnings of a bond between you both and likely give you a context to build upon in future conversation.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/4/2005 9:37:11 PM

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One thing I'd like to add to Akasha's post:

Most men think with their dicks. I think it's a little like the spam problem: If no one ever was sucessful sending a spam, there would be no problem. Men have innate drives to screw whatever moves, and along with an upbringing that encourages them to quite literally throw stuff to the wall to see what sticks, I really don't think this is a problem that will go away.

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(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/5/2005 8:02:55 AM

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I agree messaging every Dom is wrong and I feel for all the woman both dom and sub who have to go through a ton of messages from pretenders.

Unfortunately, in reading all profiles most of them are basically the same and quite brief. Finding something common and unique to write about is quite difficult. The fact is you are only going to find out if you connect in going through the process (e-mail, phone calls and meeting) and not by one message.

It is difficult for a male sub on these sites. We know by sheer numbers and from pretenders that the odds of even getting a reply let alone a positive one is remote. So yes we do in fact tend to write quite a few just on the hope a couple get returned and one might want to pursue something.

(in reply to Ssilver)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/5/2005 8:40:12 AM

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I was thinking about this some more last night. There's something about using the Internet that seems to work against people meeting when specifics are involved. I can't quite put my finger on it but it's there and every time I read threads about finding each other online, I find myself wanting to describe or explain the issue.

I think the best way to describe the problem is by comparison. In the vanilla world, we go from generalizations to specifics. People meet first and "discover" who each other is second. Physical attraction and some immediate verbal dialog are usually the most salient attributes that determine if anything will develop. In addition, there's often a context that brings the two together, so some commonality is already established by default.

On a website like Collarme, it's somewhat inverted. Specifics are put up first and usually not adequately described (poorly written or sparsely worded profiles are good examples) and focus mostly on lifestyle interests. The generalizations are invisible. What I mean by generalizations are the things not part and parcel to BDSM but could be described as the "rest of what makes us who we are." This will be the biggest determining factor on whether a relationship will begin and flourish.

Then there's the problem of logistics. When I "zero in" on profiles that best match my interests, they are invariably from people hundreds if not thousands of miles away. I think this is just the luck of the draw for most people. If you're not in an area where a lot of people in this lifestyle are living, you might as well accept that you won't be meeting anyone through Collarme unless you have the means and willingness to relocate.

But this is only a part of the problem. There are many people out there that are not members of Collarme. I often wonder how many people in the lifestyle don't network through the Internet at all. In many ways, it seems that websites are more frustrating than helpful in terms of meeting people. What I mean is, websites "reveal" our situation as it is instead of helping us to change it.

In the end, I think AAkasha's advice in other threads is the only real option. Go out and meet people in the vanilla world and take it from there. Otherwise, you will simply end up in limbo.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to stjosub67)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/5/2005 9:57:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stjosub67

I agree messaging every Dom is wrong and I feel for all the woman both dom and sub who have to go through a ton of messages from pretenders.

Unfortunately, in reading all profiles most of them are basically the same and quite brief. Finding something common and unique to write about is quite difficult. The fact is you are only going to find out if you connect in going through the process (e-mail, phone calls and meeting) and not by one message.

It is difficult for a male sub on these sites. We know by sheer numbers and from pretenders that the odds of even getting a reply let alone a positive one is remote. So yes we do in fact tend to write quite a few just on the hope a couple get returned and one might want to pursue something.

Very true. One of the things I recommend that subs do is post regularly on forums (like this), because believe it or not, people get to "know" you a little bit if they read your writing and views over a period of time. Back when alt.sex.femdom was not all spam, you'd be suprirsed how many people became friends, met in real life, and some even became couples -- simply from reading and responding to posts. A big reason is you start to see the way a person thinks, their viewpoints about acts and relationships, and see them as a person.

Chat rooms would be another great tool for this, but sadly most BDSM chat rooms are full of men trying to get cyberdomination, or hitting on all the femdoms, and women who are burnt out and already ready to rip a guy's head off for sending her a private message. Some subs might hang around for awhile, but few are willing to invest any time to start being recognizable as a person, not just a submissive with an agenda.

Subs who have spent years on the net trying to find a femdom through personals might be better served by spending time in a chatroom and being known for not being a horny net geek, but a guy interested in talking about bdsm and getting to know people. Also, subs need to remember that if they are in a chat room or forum with a handful of femdoms but sadly they are all "taken", that doesn't mean he should just bail (the same can be set of fetish parties -- when subs complain that the femdoms are already coupled). That doesn't mean you shouldn't get to know them. What they have to offer is experience and advice -- and, relationships DO change over time sometimes.

But the advice for chat rooms is the same as emails and personals -- don't present yourself "sub first, person second" but the other way around.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to stjosub67)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/5/2005 10:05:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
don't present yourself "sub first, person second" but the other way around.

I just wanted to echo that comment.

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/5/2005 10:12:06 AM

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I would like to add support for all these points as I've experienced them first hand. Posting on the boards is probably the most effective "online" channel for getting yourself known to others and interacting with people in spite of whether they are available or not helps expand your potential.

I wrote a FemDom story for DOMestic about two years ago and ended up meeting my last Owner as a result. She liked what I was trying to convey in the story and we started chatting through AIM. Eventually we met and gave it a go but unfortunately she was married and the interest we developed for each other began to work against us, so we ended the relationship.

I personally don't go to chat rooms as the BS is simply too overwhelming. Plus, you spend most of your time watching people come in, say "Hi" and then remain silent until they eventually leave. Topics are rarely serious.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/5/2005 1:03:52 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: anthrosub

I would like to add support for all these points as I've experienced them first hand. Posting on the boards is probably the most effective "online" channel for getting yourself known to others and interacting with people in spite of whether they are available or not helps expand your potential.

I wrote a FemDom story for DOMestic about two years ago and ended up meeting my last Owner as a result. She liked what I was trying to convey in the story and we started chatting through AIM. Eventually we met and gave it a go but unfortunately she was married and the interest we developed for each other began to work against us, so we ended the relationship.

I personally don't go to chat rooms as the BS is simply too overwhelming. Plus, you spend most of your time watching people come in, say "Hi" and then remain silent until they eventually leave. Topics are rarely serious.

anthrosub

BDSM chat rooms are full of people who sit and say "hi" because that's what they settle for. Did you go in, say "hi" and sit there and wait for something to happen? Or did you go in and start an engaging conversation? If a room is quiet, it just takes one person to get people engaged.

This is somethings subs do all the time --it's a huge pet peeve of mine. If you have 10 submissives and 1 femdom in a chatroom, none of them will talk unless the femdom asks questions or directs the conversation. It's a "culture" that somehow exists in bdsm chatrooms. Subs expect the femdoms to control and direct the activity.

In my chat room I have had scheduled chats with topics that are interesting and relevant to bdsm and relationships -- great turn out, but still mostly femdoms talking and subs listening. The active, gregarious subs that hang out there can keep conversations going. I think femdoms like to see that. When I push it, and force the subs to start talking, they tend to come out of their shell and get more talkative.

Subs also rarely just chat with other subs (male subs that is) in chat rooms I've found -- 6 guys sitting alone, and they won't talk to each other. I've found that culture is disappearing as well -- if it's addressed.

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to anthrosub)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/5/2005 2:56:19 PM

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Yes I did. From the very first time I entered a chatroom, I said "Hi" to the room and started asking a few questions and made comments on something another person said that seemed interesting. This was on AOL about two and half years ago. My first lessons were following room protocol which I had no problem with as long as it didn't get carried away.

Over time, I got accustomed to the majority of folks doing as I described. I came to recognize the regulars (Dominants and subs). Many of the subs who spoke spent their time saying things like "Can I sit at your feet, Ma'am?" (kneels in front of Mistress X with pleading eyes). Most of the Dommes would not interact and I later learned from a couple I got to know that what they did was enter a room and then privately set up IM's between themselves and just watch the room while they chatted. This was not true of everyone but seemed to be fairly common.

Then there were the people who would come into the room and try to make trouble. They would quickly trigger a bunch of people "clicking" on them so they no longer appeared in the room on their respective PC's. After a while, things like this and many more than I can list here led me to believe it was a waste of time. The only good conversations I ever had were with sincere Dominants who would invite me and a few others to a temporary room they created. We would discuss things and if anyone showed up, they were invited to join in. Once they discovered we were serious, they would usually leave for the regular rooms. If not, we got to know each other a bit.

You're right about the culture. Depending on the experience level of the subs, they will come in groveling in front of everyone, being very apologetic, or announce their ASL and wait for someone to talk to them. I think there's a culture with the Dominants as well (at least on AOL). It's almost like a club for them to visit and watch all the men make fools of themselves.

One thing I noticed was when several people who are sincere started talking, the whole atmosphere changed and the players went silent, since this is not what they're looking for. But because of all the "noise" in the room, sincere conversations were rare to get started and maintain. Again, I suppose this might be a problem unique to AOL.

anthrosub

_____________________________

"It is easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled." - Mark Twain

"I am not young enough to know everything." - Oscar Wilde

(in reply to AAkasha)

RE: Tip for subs: don't hit on everyone - 6/5/2005 4:04:18 PM

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Thats good advice about the boards. I am definetly going to try posting more.

Chatrooms have been frustrating. It is all about Hello's and dumb talk. I have pretty much given up on trying them.

(in reply to anthrosub)

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