RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (Full Version)

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peepeegirl5 -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 11:46:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Sometimes people will not go to a professional counsler for too many reasons to go into here.  It is up to those who are trained in some way without a degree, to seek them out, work with them and try to get them to a professional that can work on the long term end that needs to take place.  Until all that work is done, it is those with the heart and position in the shelters, hotlines etc. to work the situation, help with the present needs and step in to intervine.

I do not have a degree...{smile} which was topic city wide when it was reported in the news paper when I took over the shelter.  The professionals came at me like... well... I don't know what to call it... but they wanted me out! lol  My first speech was in front of many medical professionals and social workers.  They tried to take me out... but they could never find one thing I did out of line, harmful or anything else. I shut more than one up for good because they actually made fools of themselves in some cases. They fought me hard... but in the end... in many things we agreed to disagree and actually worked together in many ways.  Throughout the years, I worked with professionals and they found my assistance worth coming back for.

Please do not give more credit or take credit from situations that you don't know first hand.  If someone is working in the field and their clients are doing well, they are refering people on when needed and all is good... then that person knows what they are doing.  Their job isn't the long haul of emotional healing... it can maybe be called a bandaid and a bandaid is fine to use to get you to what you might really need.

I have known lay counslers that were far more effective than professionals.  I have worked cases in a layman's role before and after professionals.  In fifteen minutes I figured out what a professional didn't in two years of two sessions a week.  I have also known of layman that were totally off their rocker and needed to be held accountable.

When a lay person is recommended by other professionals... when they have the respect of the community in which they work and when they are providing a true public and personal service, we cannot discount what they do!  When they speak of what they do, knowing they can honestly and ethically sleep at night, maybe we should give them some time to prove themselves before we discredit them and their heartfelt desire to be of true assistance.  I have yet to hear anyone state that they replace professsional assitance or do not refere people on.  I have heard that these people are in a place to serve as a steping stone in a life and a situation. 

I may mention what I do because it is such a big part of myself, but I do not use it to make more of myself or gain anything in return except maybe someone knowing what my life is about.  Please don't make it a challenge unless something improper is going on or someone is actually being harmed by the services the non professionals provide.  They have their place in our communities and the good one's are needed!

With all due respect, I hope I haven't offended anyone and I am sure that I may get flamed, but with mental health systems the way they are at least in the United States, professional services can be hard to get and even when getting them, the services can be questionable.  There isn't enough funding, there isn't enough of anything and mental health workers often get paid far too little and some become hardened to it all and because of this and so many other things, mistakes are made professionally and within the non professional services offered.

When anyone can get good quality professional services and I mean... anyone... and I mean, good quality... then there may be no need for the non professional or degreed mental health or life crisis workers... but until then, lets give a little credit for the heart it takes, because many of these workers do so without pay.

Lockit


O Lockit I think YOU are wonderful. It is in that spirit that I work. It's community service.

I'm not paid, and every woman I've led back to sanity and control had found that the "professionals" were ineffective. Even if the money is there for their new subaru's and botox injections, they are effectively incompetent to fix damage that comes from sources outside the scope of their credentials. O yes, if it's a problem that was identified at least 20 years ago and a solution already found, they are great at fixing things up in a year or two at $85/hr.

I have real answers to real problems that aren't even on the "professionals" who wave their "credentials" about radars. And yet, i'll grant them their true value in solving early 20th century issues over extended time periods.




velvetears -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 11:46:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Just a post to say how proud I am of your beautiful quotes Luci!!!!!

Thank you for noticing, LA.  I've been practicing.  And to think I owe it all to you[:D]


i miss the purple... it was so unique and you [;)]




slaveluci -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 11:47:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
however i understand the reality is that not all slaves can bear or accept such treatment

I could but I don't and never will.  I know many other slaves who feel the same way.  It's not that we are unable to "tough it out" or "take it," it's just why would we settle for that which is detrimental to us?  You have been very honest about having little control over your own submission and about craving what others would consider unduly harsh, cruel, and yes even abusive.  Therefore, when you receive such treatment is isn't abuse to you.  It's fulfilling your needs so, no, that isn't abusive to you.

On the flip side of this, I don't desire cruelty, broken ribs, or a master who beats me when he comes home from work angry at someone or something else like WhiplashSmile mentioned.  My Master and I both consider that abusive and the opposite of "mastery" of one's self, let alone a slave.  Obviously, what is abusive to me and others is not abusive to you.  But, as LA indicated, what would perhaps come closest to being abusive for you would be having to go against your nature - the nature that desires that harshness, cruelty, and submission to those around you.  I know you will probably say that nothing your master did would be considered abuse to you and only you can determine that.  However I think that if he denied you any outlet for the submissiveness that you say guides you so strongly, that would be detrimental to you.  Just as detrimental as some of the other things that you gladly accept would be to me and others.  And, as LA said, surely you couldn't handle having to be a Domme 24/7[8D].  Just a thought.........luci 




heartofakajira -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 11:52:10 AM)

I'd really be interested in seeing peepeegirl's and slaverose's credentials....back up your claims girls...[:D]


Master's patience

Owned completely by Sadist4whore




slaveluci -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 11:57:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5
I'm not paid, and every woman I've led back to sanity and control had found that the "professionals" were ineffective. Even if the money is there for their new subaru's and botox injections, they are effectively incompetent to fix damage that comes from sources outside the scope of their credentials. O yes, if it's a problem that was identified at least 20 years ago and a solution already found, they are great at fixing things up in a year or two at $85/hr.
I have real answers to real problems that aren't even on the "professionals" who wave their "credentials" about radars. And yet, i'll grant them their true value in solving early 20th century issues over extended time periods.

Mighty amazin' for an 18 yr. old schoolgirl[;)].  Or did you forget?.....on here, you have represented yourself as an 18 year old schoolgirl.  Seems you've either misrepresented yourself there or with all you've just written here.  Seems very questionable that someone your age who hasn't completed college yet would have "led" very many women "back to sanity and control." [:)] I've found those who scoff at "professionals" with "credentials" and dismiss them as a whole are usually highly suspect themselves.  I'm not saying that anyone who has a degree or credentials is a genius.  Not by a long shot.  But people who have gone to the trouble to actually get a formal education and/or training usually learned a little something along the way and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.  Them there city slickers and all that there book-learnin.....humbug.......[8D]............luci

****Edited for clarification****




velvetears -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 11:59:51 AM)

do big ego's count as credentials [:D]




heartofakajira -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:01:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5
I'm not paid, and every woman I've led back to sanity and control had found that the "professionals" were ineffective. Even if the money is there for their new subaru's and botox injections, they are effectively incompetent to fix damage that comes from sources outside the scope of their credentials. O yes, if it's a problem that was identified at least 20 years ago and a solution already found, they are great at fixing things up in a year or two at $85/hr.
I have real answers to real problems that aren't even on the "professionals" who wave their "credentials" about radars. And yet, i'll grant them their true value in solving early 20th century issues over extended time periods.

Mighty amazin' for an 18 yr. old schoolgirl[;)].  Or did you forget?.....on here, you have represented yourself as an 18 year old schoolgirl.  Seems you've either misrepresented yourself there or with all you've just written here.  Seems very questionable that someone your age who hasn't completed college yet would have "led" very many women "back to sanity and control." [:)] I've found those who scoff at "professionals" with "credentials" are usually highly suspect themselves.  I'm not saying that anyone who has a degree or credentials is a genius.  Not by a long shot.  But people who have gone to the trouble to actually get a formal education and/or training usually learned a little something along the way and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.  Them there city slickers and all that there book-learnin.....humbug.......[8D]............luci


Amen to that luci!!!  how in the world can an 18 yr old child know more than someone twice her age in the field???  give me a break!




slaveluci -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:02:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears
do big ego's count as credentials [:D]

They apparently think so but, for the purposes of this thread, I'd have to say "no.".........luci




heartofakajira -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:02:52 PM)

Velvet...sure...big egos can count as credentials....credentials for no one taking the girl seriously [:)]




drawntothedark -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:04:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartofakajira

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5
I'm not paid, and every woman I've led back to sanity and control had found that the "professionals" were ineffective. Even if the money is there for their new subaru's and botox injections, they are effectively incompetent to fix damage that comes from sources outside the scope of their credentials. O yes, if it's a problem that was identified at least 20 years ago and a solution already found, they are great at fixing things up in a year or two at $85/hr.
I have real answers to real problems that aren't even on the "professionals" who wave their "credentials" about radars. And yet, i'll grant them their true value in solving early 20th century issues over extended time periods.

Mighty amazin' for an 18 yr. old schoolgirl[;)].  Or did you forget?.....on here, you have represented yourself as an 18 year old schoolgirl.  Seems you've either misrepresented yourself there or with all you've just written here.  Seems very questionable that someone your age who hasn't completed college yet would have "led" very many women "back to sanity and control." [:)] I've found those who scoff at "professionals" with "credentials" are usually highly suspect themselves.  I'm not saying that anyone who has a degree or credentials is a genius.  Not by a long shot.  But people who have gone to the trouble to actually get a formal education and/or training usually learned a little something along the way and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.  Them there city slickers and all that there book-learnin.....humbug.......[8D]............luci


Amen to that luci!!!  how in the world can an 18 yr old child know more than someone twice her age in the field???  give me a break!



perhaps she is only pretending to be an 18 year old girl [image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m11.gif[/image]




peepeegirl5 -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:04:33 PM)

ABSOLUTELY!!! :)

And credentials also count as big egos.




heartofakajira -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:06:23 PM)

peepeegirl and slaverose....then where are your credentials?  Surely you don't want everyone thinking you are as immature as you make yourselves out to be spouting off about so much experience.....what experience can an 18 year old CHILD have?  




peepeegirl5 -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:06:30 PM)

Of course my HUGE ego has proven to be more effective at solving issues, which makes it even bigger.





MagiksSlave -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:07:21 PM)

I deffenetly dont think the way to help fix someone that has been abused is with another relationship. The best thing for an abused person slave or otherwise is to be on their own for at least a year (a year is what is said but I think it totally depends on the person and how bad the abuse was)while they seek therapy and are working on learning it wasnt their foult and all those bad things that where said arent true. I also feel there should be some rehab for the abusive partner. So often we hear of battered womens shelters and help for the person that was abused and we seldome ever hear of rehab for the person who was beeing abusive, to me this is treating the symptom not the disease and will only work as a bandaid. Fixing the victim is all well and good and im deffinetly all for it but how good is it if the person who abused them continues to abuse others. I do feel that people who abuse others do need help and I feel that therapy on helping them target WHY they feel the need to abuse could really help.

I do however understand what the op is saying, an abusive M/s relationship can leave one jaded and the slave involved may then feel that all M/s is abusive or feel that they dont want to be in a relationship with a Master again. Because of how volnerable slaves are to their Masters I could see the real dalema here, but I still feel the best call is to work on themselfs not on a new relationship and then if they choose to start seeking again to then just be open and honest about their past. or even better make friends in the community if they dont already have any and have these friends both Doms and subs help ease them back in, and show that BDSM and M/s are NOT abuse.

by the way my lose deffanition of abuse in BDSM M/s is for something to be done that isnt consentual!

Magik's slave




peepeegirl5 -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:07:48 PM)

Yes, what possible experience can an 18yo girl have!!




velvetears -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:13:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

.... but as we know a Master need not be ethical in order to be a Master or even a good Master....


Who is this "we" you speak of because it isn't me or a lot of people i know.   IMO what seperates an asbuser from a Master is ethics - how he handles what is his - how he takes care of his property.  i know many will argue - but what is abuse?   i won't get into that argument,  if you are a reasonable human being you can figure it out.  i think post #4 summed up some of it nicely.




PassionateTulip -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:17:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

I've found those who scoff at "professionals" with "credentials" are usually highly suspect themselves. 


I *grew up* in the care of "professionals with credentials" and as soon as I got away from them I realized how much they truly messed me up. I would NEVER recommend someone in such a state with lack of ability to care for themselves reach for the care of someone they have to pay to get help from. For some people, it may work. For some people, they may get better. For some people, anything! The thing is that if a person can get effective help here for free, or from friends for free, the BEST professionals I have ever met agreed that it is better to do so.

I am saying this from seeing the literal worst of what is possible within the "professional" system, and from seeing the vast range of what that includes. From abuse, to neglect, to hatred, to belittlement, to rape, to goodness and my mind knows what else..... The problem with the system is that it is VERY MUCH like here. A person lays out a laundry list of experiences, they simply have papers to prove they have read some books (often not even so) ~ I have come across quite a handful of people in high positions within the "professional" world who have faked their way to it... One for plagarism, one for merely claiming they had degrees when they never even attended college, and a handful of others. ~ Again, the problem is placing trust in these people. We can get references, we can get good feedback about them, BUT we may have a really hard time proving they are what they claim. By the time we find out it is often too late.

As long as you are truly helped, that is all that matters.




slaveluci -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:37:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PassionateTulip
I *grew up* in the care of "professionals with credentials" and as soon as I got away from them I realized how much they truly messed me up.

I'm sorry to hear that, Tulip.

quote:

I am saying this from seeing the literal worst of what is possible within the "professional" system, and from seeing the vast range of what that includes. From abuse, to neglect, to hatred, to belittlement, to rape, to goodness and my mind knows what else..... The problem with the system is that it is VERY MUCH like here. A person lays out a laundry list of experiences, they simply have papers to prove they have read some books (often not even so) ~ I have come across quite a handful of people in high positions within the "professional" world who have faked their way to it... One for plagarism, one for merely claiming they had degrees when they never even attended college, and a handful of others. ~ Again, the problem is placing trust in these people. We can get references, we can get good feedback about them, BUT we may have a really hard time proving they are what they claim. By the time we find out it is often too late.

You make some very valid points and I don't disagree with you at all.  There is abuse and unprofessionalism everywhere you turn these days.  My response wasn't so much to argue the superiority of anyone who says they have professional degrees.  It was to point out that there are some professionals who ARE able to legitimately help and that, in dangerous situations such as the one Rose was speaking of, it is probably best to involve them rather than rely on lay people with questionable ability or experience.  We could make an entire thread debating the virtues of professional help -vs- peer counseling and maybe we should[;)] but that was not my motivation in my response.  Sorry again for the rotten experiences you have had with so-called "professionals" who hurt you........slave luci 



As long as you are truly helped, that is all that matters.




AquaticSub -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:38:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

If you start and stop the sample with the first successfull case you can have 100% success rate, LOL.


Ahhh but then we know they are cherry picking their data. I believe that an accurate statistic can't be determined without at least 100 samples of varying backgrounds. But don't quote me on that. My recent studying on stats were sexual stats and being able to get data on that is so hard that I may be thinking too small.




AquaticSub -> RE: A new path for slaves from abusive M/s (6/14/2007 12:42:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: peepeegirl5
I'm not paid, and every woman I've led back to sanity and control had found that the "professionals" were ineffective. Even if the money is there for their new subaru's and botox injections, they are effectively incompetent to fix damage that comes from sources outside the scope of their credentials. O yes, if it's a problem that was identified at least 20 years ago and a solution already found, they are great at fixing things up in a year or two at $85/hr.
I have real answers to real problems that aren't even on the "professionals" who wave their "credentials" about radars. And yet, i'll grant them their true value in solving early 20th century issues over extended time periods.

Mighty amazin' for an 18 yr. old schoolgirl[;)].  Or did you forget?.....on here, you have represented yourself as an 18 year old schoolgirl.  Seems you've either misrepresented yourself there or with all you've just written here.  Seems very questionable that someone your age who hasn't completed college yet would have "led" very many women "back to sanity and control." [:)] I've found those who scoff at "professionals" with "credentials" are usually highly suspect themselves.  I'm not saying that anyone who has a degree or credentials is a genius.  Not by a long shot.  But people who have gone to the trouble to actually get a formal education and/or training usually learned a little something along the way and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.  Them there city slickers and all that there book-learnin.....humbug.......[8D]............luci


Particularly since this 18 year old schoolgirl has vocalized very close-minded opinions about male dom/fem sub relationships. Perhaps she can only work with those who fall into a certain group, making it useful for a select group but worthless when applied to a larger sample of the population.




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