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The Gift of Tears...? - 6/1/2005 7:37:48 PM

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I am really confused by this and wanted to know what some other people thought.

My Dom has had me reflect on the "gift of tears" and I'm sorry...

Here's my sarcastic bitter side coming out... ready, ready?

I'm not understanding this. I've cried before for him because I've been overcome with emotion, and I can imagine crying in front of him... But I don't see tears as a gift.

To me, with my background, and growing up with abuse in my history (as many on the boards seem to have as well) I view tears as a sign of weakness. I cry a lot but I rarely let anyone see me cry. I can fathom crying for my Dom if that is what he wants, but I am not seeing this as a gift.

I can only understand tears as a way of saying "Okay, you win. You are stronger/bigger/______ than me and you have the power to make me cry. Is that enough?" They just don't move me. I am not moved or turned on by the idea of crying for him. It is to me, no more moving than peeing. That's the exact comparison I would use, it is to me like ridding the body of excess.

I am not sure how to give this meaning, and I would like to understand. I think tears could be one of the most sadistic things I could think of, but that's just me.

Any thoughts?

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/1/2005 7:43:51 PM

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Bodily fluids are always very strong in symbolism and power- cum, sweat, blood, tears, they all have very strong meanings to us and they are often used as expressions of deep feelings for people.

Tears are usually symbols of great surrender and great love and emotion for something/someone. To allow someone to make you cry from within yourself is to symbolize that you have opened yourself up to them in a very deep way and that your connection with them is bring this. Your gift of tears is showing them in a visceral immediate form your true emotions.

Or they are just beating the hell out of you.

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/1/2005 9:09:35 PM

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quote:

I view tears as a sign of weakness. I cry a lot but I rarely let anyone see me cry. I can fathom crying for my Dom if that is what he wants, but I am not seeing this as a gift.

if tears are a sign of weakness, then by crying, you are making yourself vulnerable for your Dom. going belly-up, per se.

now, consider if you fought the real tears. if you refused to let the one person you trust the most to see you at your most vulnerable... you would be fighting the last vestiges of your surrender.

there are many different kinds of tears. i have a minor in Drama... i can cry if i want to. i cry when i am being caned, but i cannot help those tears, and they are not from within me, as Emerald said. but when my Grandfather died, and after the viewing, when my 6'4" gentle giant of a brother finally broke down and sobbed, we all cried together, for ourselves, and for each other. he said he was sorry, because he was trying to be strong for mom, my sister and i.

damn, crying now thinking about it. but seriously... this kind of cry, where your heart is wringing itself out... well, for me, i used to have those cries by myself. now, He is the one i can trust to share my most vulerable self with.

maybe, just maybe, offering Him the key to that chamber inside you is the gift He means.

that's one aspect of how tears can be a gift.

another is like the movie "Crybaby." i know, a John Waters film. *lol* but hey, he would only shed a single tear if he was hurt, because he refused to give "them" any more.

good luck on your task. you are already reflecting a lot about it, i hope you find some interesting views.

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/1/2005 9:17:02 PM

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I wrote this somewhere before, but I used to have asswhippings regularily with a horse saddle cinch. Abuse? Dunno. I don't cry for any reason any more. But exactly what you hate could be seen as a gift.......... to cry and be solved to have the place after you are so wrung out in your soul and be ok and share it. Without the shame and such that goes on with abuse..............to be spent............emotions are funny......but I think you know what I am saying. A thought, perhaps it helps, perhaps................nothing

Sincerely,
Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to sanita)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/1/2005 11:21:49 PM

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I agree with sanita's comment that refusing to cry, to show yourself at your most open and emotionally "naked" would be fighting the surrender I assume both you and your Dom want.

Being vunerable and feeling weak isn't a bad thing if the one person you trust to see and know every part of you is the one seeing you cry. I should probably ask my koi (short for koibito, "lover" in Japanese...it's my nickname for my pet) to come here and post her thoughts because I know part of her probably still feels like you even though I'm helping with that.

I love that she has enough trust in me to show her "weak" side and still be around me when she feels small, scared, and vunerable. Yes, abuse is part of her past as well.

Emotional abuse is part of mine and I was often harassed for crying so much, but that's just who I am. I can't make myself cry, but it's one of the two ways I express extreme emotion. The other way is going cold and avoiding everyone. I can't speak in generalities, but to me, tears are far from being a sign of weakness. They're a sign that you have emotions, that you aren't just an empty shell. That, in my opinion, is one of the greatest strengths a human can possess.

_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to mnottertail)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/1/2005 11:47:12 PM

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From: Austin, Texas
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Tears confuse me as well, fourpeas...

About a week or two ago, my Master was whipping me with this leather strap that's intended to sharpen razor blades- you know, like the ones in old school barber shops? Regardless, the more he whipped me the more I felt...I mean, I ran through a gamut of emotions- I sometimes giggle during a spanking, then I got irritated, then angry, then REALLY angry.

Finally, it got to the point that it hurt so much, he stood in front of me, put my head between his legs to prevent me from moving around and continued to whip me. I couldn't take it any more- I finally broke down and cried- well, sobbed is more like it. He stopped and held me and told me he loved me- which is what I needed to hear right then. I don't know how to explain what I felt. I feel like part of me had your "There, you won" attitude, part of me felt like we had broken through one a wall...like he helped release something. I also feel like that experience helped me become a better submissive for him.

I think part of the reason he wants your tears is sadistic. My Master already told me that he had no problem watching or listening to me cry.... Maybe it also helps break you down so he can build you back up. Now, I'm gonna ask my Master about it...

Aw, I dunno... perhaps you should explain your stance on tears to him, eh?

_____________________________

My Xanga!
What?
"I looked up,
and I was in your arms, and I knew that I was captured..."

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 10:20:54 AM

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As a Sadistic Domme, I find tears to be one of the most beautiful things a submissive or a slave can have. Knowing that we breached that wall, that we passed the point of no return is fabulous, exhilerating...there aren't enough words.
I'm a masochist as well, and understand where you are coming from. I have had 2 previous relationships that drove me to crying, tears of anger, tears of pain, tears of rejection...numerous times. I, myself, can only cry when I play or am being played. I have wept in the arms of a Sadistic son of a bitch who finally finally hit that point with me that I got the release my body and heart and soul were screaming for. I have also wept while holding a boy who was out and out bawling, I wept with sorrow for the pain he had (emotionally) and with joy that we had swept some past thing away.
Crying in my opinion, does NOT make you weak, it takes great strength to open up that much and simply let it all go. I'm not a watering can, I don't cry over commercials or movies, when they shot Old Yeller I simply sat there. But in this aspect, tears mean so much more than just water coming from your eyes.
IMO, the reason a lot of Dom/mes look at tears as a gift is because our submissives (so many of them, not all but many) have been abused in the past. We know you have cried for the reasons listed above, and we want you to cry for a different reason. I see you as one who cries only as a last resort, when things have finally hit that point where you just lose it...in crying you show trust, trust that we won't hurt you, that we will help you get over it, that we will heal the pain in your heart.
Of course, sometimes I like to see a boy or girl cry simply because it turns me on big time. There are numerous reasons for it, perhaps if you share your thoughts with your Master he will be able to explain his reason for looking at tears as a gift.
I hope this helps...

Kindred

_____________________________

Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to ginger21)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 11:11:47 AM

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My Tears come in different flavors, I assume the rest of you that cry are no different.
There are tears that sneak up during a Movie, you know the one's where you turn your head and act as if something itched to wipe away the dampness. Then there are the
Tears of Joy that are sometimes shared in laughter hard enough to hurt your tummy.
The tears from frustration that are cover up with humor to mask the moments pain.
Tears of loneliness shared only in a mirror. Then there are the tears of loss that are accompanied by gut wrenching sounds you don't recognize as your own.
when i reflect on this, i realize that the only good tears are those shared, your soul's
bared with one who accepts. Go for it.

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 1:12:42 PM

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Go read my sub's blog on crying, http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=5147934&blogID=22402814&Mytoken=20050602102308 and maybe it will help you understand a bit more. I had him write it soon after the play, so he'd get his feelings and thoughts down before he forgot any of it.

Tears are a gift. They are the biggest and most erotic gift my sub can give me. Because you don't see them as a gift, doesn't mean your Dominant doesn't. Tears are not easily brought by just physical pain. As you read my sub's blog, you'll notice that he is trying to take more for me, trying to (in his mind) be worthy of me. I'd made him scared and confused on purpose. Emotion is where your tears come from. My sub surrendered his entire self to me.

You've been conditioned via abuse to see tears as weak.I understand your feeling and personally do not cry in front of people. Your Dom knows this about you. Yet you trust him enough to let go and cry when you need to with him. You surrender to him. How is trusting him not a gift?

You've a very narrow view of things yet and a lot to work through. Being broken by those we trust via abuse tends to color our view of the world until we heal it. You sound conflicted about taking percussion play from him. Your bitterness and sarcasm about his calling your tears a gift shows that you're not comfortable with things. I'm afraid you're still equating his dominance with abuse at some level. I urge you to consider if you might need someone to talk with on a professional level to help you sort things out. I recommend KAP (Kink Aware Professionals) for finding someone lifestyle friendly in your area. http://www.bannon.com/kap/

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 1:34:23 PM

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You said you cry often but dont let others see you cry. (im the same way) your Master might be calling your tears a gift because you are letting Him see you cry, which shows you trust/love Him enough to see you when you feel like you're being 'weak' and vunerable

_____________________________

.*.Brightest of Blessings to Y/you and Y/yours.*.

~kitten~

(in reply to BeachMystress)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 5:22:47 PM

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CalliopePurple asked me to post you something cause I would understand some so here's what I have to say.

Tears don't come easily to me. Even now the reason is because I was taught it was wrong to cry. There was something wrong with you if you cried. You were weak and spineless. You were punished badly in front of everyone that was there without any mercy. You were made to feel you were lower then dirt and they did a good job of making you feel like it.

After that tears only came because I spent 3 years in agony. I spent 3 years of my life crying in the dark cause it hurt to much to live. No one saw and no one new I cried so long my face started to get burned from my tears.
A wet wash clothe and make up does wonders you know.
Then I simply stopped crying cause it hurt to much too. I couldn't take that kind of pain anymore. So I stopped and numbed that so well I forgot tears exsisted.

And I was that way till I met my Dom.

I couldn't cry cause apart of me felt usless. I couldn't cry cause I was afraid of being yelled at again and feeling like I was lower then dirty. But slowly it was pulled out of me why I didn't cry and why it hurt so bad and I wasn't met with harsh words. I was met with loving ones which surprised me.

Still I can't cry for more then a minute or two but it get's better and it doesn't hurt so much on the inside now. And when you find what I found it will be a comfort to you. Just like it's a comfort to me when I hear my Dom tell me "It's ok to cry and I know it's not easy for you."

Cause really that's all I ever wanted to hear.

I hope you find out what I did.

(in reply to MasterzKitten)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 6:25:03 PM

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I actuallly like to cry for my Dom. It's like opening up that last part of me and letting him in. I'm vulnerable and trust him to pull me back together, eben if he was the cause of me pulling apart. There's something very secure about being pulled close to him and having him wipe away the tears.
I used to always hide when I cried. I felt weak and didn't want anyone to see it. Now, I want him to make me cry so I can feel the closeness and security of his comfort.

_____________________________

I'm Japan and Godzilla has taken over.

Laugh with them, or let them laugh at you.

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 7:30:30 PM

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i've also always felt the same way about tears. Growing up my father, brother, and brothers friends instilled in me to be stronge. Its always about strength, always will be. My lil sister was considered a "wuss" the lowest of insults, because she was quite frankly a wuss. The stronge do not cry. The strong survive. The stronge are to be respected. No matter what my brother or his friends did to me, whether it was being beaten up, knocked around, teased merciless, i did not cry. i was stronge. Out of all the girls in the neighborhood, i was the only one allowed to play with the boys. i was tough. Tough is good. Crying is not tough. Crying is for the weak, and to be weak is a terrible thing. i come from a LONG LONG line of tough stronge irish/german people. Gots to be tough. Only once in my life saw my Dad cry.

And then as a wild teenager and meeting evil people. i learned also what a weakness it was. A way for people to find your "soft" spots and get in.

But

i am told this is all bogus. Crying is ok. Crying is a good release. Crying is the things they have stated above. Opening oneself up to the one you trust. Master has been teaching me about it. And i have learned to cry easier (with only Master of course) Of course i will still hold my breathe as long as possible to fight off the tears. Which LOL of course i do as well when being whipped = )

From what i have learned

Crying is okay and all thats stated above = )

(in reply to liltxsubby)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 8:23:46 PM

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I think that the *only* thing I would consider to be just extra-sadistic is the forced bringing on of tears. I just don't get it at all. And now that I think about everyone's responses, I have shared portions of this with my Dom but

Basically what is so unnerving to me is:

The thought of my Dom wanting to make me feel the way that I would have to feel... in order for me to give the tears that he would want to see.

I guess what I'm not understanding is why he would want to take me to that place, why he would want to force me to feel that way. The tears are not the issue. I've already given him tears. I have no problem with seeing them fall down my cheeks, I don't really have a problem crying and I certainly don't have a problem being vulnerable. What I have a problem with is ... I feel that it's going to happen naturally, and when someone says that "tears are a gift" I guess it makes me feel that in some way, those tears are going to be "bought" does that make sense? As in, in some way, those tears are going to be bought with a certain action or a certain behavior.

Yeah, and as I write this I'm crying. It's not the tears that are the problem!

BeachMystress (and other Dom/mes)I would be really interested in hearing more about *why* this is considered such a gift. And *why* is this erotic?

Thanks everyone. Hope to hear more discussion about this. Thanks! :D

(in reply to RiotGirl)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/2/2005 8:52:09 PM

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Submission ain't easy.

Giving up control over what happens "naturally" into what happens "on his command" can be a hard thing.

It HELPS to understand why, and I think you've gotten great perspectives to try and help you, but it's not necessary. It's good that you know where yous tand on it, now how can you work yourself towards accepting what he wants, towards providing that service?

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/3/2005 1:32:03 AM

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From: Naples Island- Long Beach CA - Southern California
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I am not in your Dom's mind and can not tell you why he has the desire to hurt his partner to the point of tears. Personally, this is how I was born. My sadistic tendencies manifested about 4. What I do know is that this issue distresses you greatly. You may want to consider making forcing tears a hard limit. If you can not deal with it, do not. Subs do have rights.

To me, it is a gift because he is going further for me than he would for anyone else. He is proving to me how very much he loves me. While he has no desire to experience pain, he knows that I have something wired differently in my brain and derive sexual pleasure from hurting him. He gives over all of himself so that I can experience the sexual thrill I crave. The tears usually come at the point of total surrender with him. The tears aren't actually the gift, they are the physical manifestation of the gift. The true gift is the surrender to what I want when he very much doesn't want what is going on. His tears are a release.. an acknowledgement that he is mine body and soul.

As to why I have dacryphilia among my fetishes.. I'm not sure. I've only become aware of it within the past 6 months, and haven't had time to really analyze the whys of it yet. All I can tell you is my physiological and psychological response to it.. My physical responses include increased breathing rate, vaginal lubrication, tightness in my chest, slight lightheadedness and my nipples get hard. Psychologically, I feel a rush of love for my partner and the desire to mate with him. I've no clue where in my past this might have a root. I've never fantasized about making someone cry. My partner crying in a non sexual situation distresses me greatly. It will be interesting for me to figure this one out.

_____________________________

Beach Mystress
*Do not threaten the weak. Intimidate the strong. ~ Stevenson*
http://beachmystress.jigsy.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beachmystress/

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/3/2005 6:10:47 AM

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I cannot answer for your Dom, as to the why's and how comes, but I can give you my take on it.
I wouldn't look at your tears as having been bought, that's not it at all. It's the point that we know we can get you to, that once you get there you have enough trust in us to just let it go and cry.
It's perfectly normal (IMO) to run through the cambut of emotions during a scene, especially if the play is hard and intense. Knowing that someone who hates to cry will do so is a rush.
I agree with BeachMystress on this one, she put it the best way I've seen yet. It IS surrender, surrender of self over to your Dom.
I have always found tears to be a turn on, it sexually excites me to see a grown man or woman cry because of what I'm doing to them. I think it stems from the fact that growing up my mother wouldn't let me cry, I was always told to buck up, be strong, big girls don't cry, suck it up. When I was introduced into BDSM, my former husband used to tell me the same thing. The first time I played with someone and they cried I actually got light-headed it was such a rush. I had that much power, to push someone over the edge into tears! It's hard for me to put into words what that was like...
I consider tears a gift because I know how precious they are. I know that for an abused submissive/slave to cry takes a lot of emotional trust. Trust that I'll tell them it's okay, that no matter what they are beautiful in my eyes. There is nothing lovelier to me than a submissive with tears coursing down their face, eyes red and swollen, body heaving with sobs. It's erotic because they are shedding them for me, for something I've done, for reaching a point where they just totally surrender to me and my will.
Every submissive I've had has cried for me, to me it is the most beautiful thing in the world.

_____________________________

Her touch is on the breeze that brushes your cheek, Her voice rides the thunder as the storm breaks, Her tears will clean your heartache when the rains come, Her sun will light the darkest times when you feel alone...She is the Goddess.

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/3/2005 9:26:18 AM

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quote:

that no matter what they are beautiful in my eyes. There is nothing lovelier to me than a submissive with tears coursing down their face, eyes red and swollen, body heaving with sobs. It's erotic because they are shedding them for me, for something I've done, for reaching a point where they just totally surrender to me and my will.

a couple of months ago, i was punished rather roughly, it was a physical punishment, and my first to that extent.

now, i rarely think of myself as particularly pretty, much less beautiful, and when i am crying, i certainly feel like a blotchy mucousy mess. but there are times when i see myself through my Master's eyes, and i just kind of get it.

when He was punishing me, i was not aware of myself, but i knew the pain, i knew i was crying, and i knew i was perspiring (shrink wrap was involved), and other than that, i was just trying to obey His orders... the ones that sank in.

He took some pictures of me during this punishment, with my digital camera. i had to load these pictures when i got home, and send them to Him. a few, in particular... the look on my face was pleading, my eyes were just brimming with the tears that had not yet spilled out, my face was red and my hair was damp and wild. i saw these pictures, i actually whispered to Him on the phone... "i look kind of pretty like that. "

He was rather pleased that i caught a glimpse of what He sees. wow. it still sounds foreign to me, to think or say those words, but what a world!

fourpeas, i don't know why They drink in our tears this way. i don't know why they need to hit that place... to go there... maybe they just need to touch it once, so they know where it is. for a Dom/me to be able to push that button, to know where the wounds are... oh i am not making much sense. ok, if He knows where your boiling point is, where that place that hurts you so much is, and you still trust Him with that knowlege, that power... there is a gift there.

it is also His gift to you, is it not? to be able to sort of flush those wounds. to get the festering anger and pain out?

apparently, it is the intimacy and vulnerability that makes the bond.

Kindred's post about the beauty really got to me.

to further your reflection, who is really the one giving the gift?

good luck.

_____________________________

Sometimes, He calls me "subbie." Sometimes, i call me "subbie." And if someone wants to call me a BBW, its flattering. Just don't call me false.

"Please do not show me your ass and expect me to read your mind." -Opencollar

(in reply to Kindred2Evil)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/4/2005 7:41:30 AM

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I see it as a gift because I don't cry. I really don't cry. I want to cry, but I don't. Something I want out of this is the ability to cry - to have that release. And actually, I'm starting to get it. although, weirdly, the first time I was punished (and was relatively harsh IMO) I didn't cry, I just had a headache for two days (all this emotion, trapped).

I actually kind of agree that it's a gift. The fact that I go around being in control all the time (at work etc), means that I've always viewed crying as a weakness, but man do I want to do it and to have someone that has that much of an effect on me has become quite important.

I have come to realise it's not weakness at all, I was just misguided in my desire to be a hard women in my day to day life.
gg

(in reply to fourpeas)

RE: The Gift of Tears...? - 6/5/2005 3:32:47 AM

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Hello fourpeas. Oh what a difficult subject.

I think a whole lot of this is dependent on how you and your dom see the tears (pretty obviously).

It would worry me if i was with a dom who would get turned on by my tears if i'd been abused in the past. Whether or not i *should* be worried by that I don't know... but it was my first reaction when I read this subject.

But ~ if you've found a dom who truly wants you to *find* your vulnerability (within a loving and supportive relationship), and release that emotion, and find the peace the other side of that... then that's a wonderful thing.

I think you have to trust your gut feeling on this one. If he's not making you comfortable enough to go the whole way and cry *naturally*... then maybe it's not right for you yet, or with this dom. I don't know. I think I'm a little unhappy with his phrasing of 'the gift of tears'... it makes me think it's more about him than about you... but then, I can get too hung up on words sometimes!

Hope this helps a little. Good luck.

~ Elektra

< Message edited by ElektraUkM -- 6/5/2005 3:34:39 AM >

(in reply to ggonknees)

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