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Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/15/2007 6:17:42 PM

JerseyKrissi72

Posts: 10238
Joined: 8/21/2006
From: Reed City, Michigan
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I have been chatting for quite awhile with an herbal healer and have found many cures to common every day problems as well as ways to improve my life- diet, etc. I am told that MILK THISTLE helps reverse the effects of alchol on the liver as well as hepatitis and a few other conditions that affect the liver. I hope this helps some people.

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Post #: 1

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/16/2007 10:47:41 PM

earthycouple

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Joined: 2/19/2006
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I have not done a bit of research on Milk Thistle prior to posting this. I am simply giving what medical knowlege I have a workout by thinking through what seems to make sense to me as a nurse.

When cells are dead they are dead.

Reversing effects....not likely. Helping not to cause worse damage...maybe. A way to continue to be a drunk and "get away" with it...nope.

RE: Herbal Healers. Please be very careful with these people. Anyone can say he's an herbal healer and sell remedies and cure alls. I know that there are definately real herbalists out there who have gone through real training and actually know how helpful certain herbs are. There are also many scam artists out to make huge profit not only on your visits but on the herbal supplies you purchase from them.

Be wary of anyone who says things like: "Don't tell your (insert doctor, family, nutritionist etc. here) you take this...he won't understand", "I studied in the (insert place of choice here) with (insert fancy sounding name here)" and "I don't have degrees/certificates/licences because (insert bogus reason here). If they have no credentials and can't be checked up on with a phone call or two...run and run fast.

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Seeking, searching, hoping, living, loving, jumping. So what's new with you?

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)

Post #: 2

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/17/2007 12:00:11 AM

aparootsa

Posts: 49
Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline

It could depend on whether you're talking short- or long-term effects of alcohol. I'm not an expert, but I know that certain foods (generally diuretics and vitamin-rich simple foods) do help the body process and flush nasties. This will do jack for permanent damage, though. I'd consult an MD (internist or dietician) before putting much faith in homeopathics; few have been clinically tested, many are worthless except as placebos, and some are actually detrimental. Earthycouple has it right. Peace,Aaron

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 3

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/17/2007 1:20:56 AM

wandersalone

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Joined: 11/21/2005
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Health food stores and chemists sell milk thistle and various liver tonics however my understanding is that once you have damaged parts of your liver you can't un-damage it so to speak, it is more about reducing further damage. I think they are more preventative and the therapists also recommend that you reduce alcohol consumption and make some dietary changes.

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(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)

Post #: 4

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/17/2007 3:01:59 AM

slaveaurora

Posts: 157
Joined: 6/30/2006
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I did my thesis on alcoholic cirrhosis.
Fatty liver is the first stage of cirrhosis, and it can be reversed if the person stops drinking, and starts living a healthier lifestyle.

However, once the liver is damaged, (cirrhosis) it can't be reversed. The process can be slowed down, with a healthier lifestyle, but not cured.

As earthycouple said, and I agree, once the cells are dead, they are dead, and they don't rejuvinate.

(in reply to JerseyKrissi72)

Post #: 5

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/17/2007 8:15:52 AM

kazinja

Posts: 24
Joined: 8/15/2006
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I agree that a dead cell won't proliferate. Also that cirrhotic tissue cannot regenerate. But . . .

- The liver is the only organ that is capable of self-regeneration (to a certain extent).
- Liver damage does not equal cirrhosis.
- Stem cells generate new cells in many tissues. The liver contains different stem cell populations. Recent studies (Gut, 2007) show that stemcells even migrate from the bone marrow to the liver (as a support in pathological conditions).
- In Europe Milk Thistle (MT) is widely used in mainstream clinical medicine for treating liver disease.
- MT is probably the best researched herbal remedy in the world, resulting in a host of clinical trial studies supporting the validity of claims.
- Hundreds of scientific studies have been entered in the United States National Library of Medicine.
- Individual flavonoids from MT (like silybin, silychristin and silydianin) are used in pharmaceutical formulas (althoug herbalists will frown upon the use of 'exclusively active' ingredients instead of a whole herb extract).
- MT has anti-inflammatory properties in chronic persistant hepatitis.
- MT, by improving the detoxifying function of the liver, has shown anti-allergic properties.
- MT is the only known antidote to amantine (Amanita Phalloïdes/Deathcap) poisoning.
- MT is used for treating acute liver intoxication with chemical pollutants (e.g. carbon tetrachloride), following adverse drug reactions (e.g. acetaminophen) and acute alcohol poisoning.
- MT provides protection against radiation and heavy metal damage to the liver.
- MT's actions encompass influence on cell membrane permeability, enzyme activity, cell growth.
- MT has free-radical scavenger activity (thus preventing depletion of glutathione). It protects against lipid peroxidation.
- MT promotes bile flow, which supports fat metabolism and helps preventing some forms of gall stones.
- Research suggests that MT helps to reduce those estrogen metabolites that increase cancer risk, favouring instead pathways leading to harmless metabolites.
- And yes, there's a lot of rubbish going round on the net about Milk Thistle.

Sorry for the telegram style; got a lot to do today.

regards

Ron

(in reply to slaveaurora)

Post #: 6

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/17/2007 9:48:27 AM

bliss1

Posts: 497
Joined: 3/14/2007
Status: offline

As with all herbs - you will find many disbelievers. Our western medicene has done a good job of keeping people from even trying them.

Milk Thistle is a great way to cleanse the liver - but the one thing I do agree with - dead is dead (when it comes to cells of this body).
I would also suggest a tea of raspberry and violet leaves - it is also a great detoxifer.

Depending on your doctor - you will find some will say they do nothing (they must do something, the old ways have been around long before they were) to well try it, it can't hurt.

Use your own sense of judgement here and trust that inner voice.

_____________________________

Witch before, during, and after my coffee.

(in reply to kazinja)

Post #: 7

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/18/2007 6:05:35 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

I have used milk thistle for years,I would like to hope it is doing some good,but there are others that can help like dandelion,and a low alcoholic beer made out of the things,which is a liver tonic favoured by industrial workers in the nineteenth century.

I agree if one is to use herbs,then the whole herb should be used,not just it's active ingredient,something about pharmaceuticals not having the ability to antidote an over reation,sorry,the memory is hazy on this.

(in reply to bliss1)

Post #: 8

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/18/2007 11:28:17 AM

Aneirin

Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kazinja

I agree that a dead cell won't proliferate. Also that cirrhotic tissue cannot regenerate. But . . .

- The liver is the only organ that is capable of self-regeneration (to a certain extent).
- Liver damage does not equal cirrhosis.
- Stem cells generate new cells in many tissues. The liver contains different stem cell populations. Recent studies (Gut, 2007) show that stemcells even migrate from the bone marrow to the liver (as a support in pathological conditions).
- In Europe Milk Thistle (MT) is widely used in mainstream clinical medicine for treating liver disease.
- MT is probably the best researched herbal remedy in the world, resulting in a host of clinical trial studies supporting the validity of claims.
- Hundreds of scientific studies have been entered in the United States National Library of Medicine.
- Individual flavonoids from MT (like silybin, silychristin and silydianin) are used in pharmaceutical formulas (althoug herbalists will frown upon the use of 'exclusively active' ingredients instead of a whole herb extract).
- MT has anti-inflammatory properties in chronic persistant hepatitis.
- MT, by improving the detoxifying function of the liver, has shown anti-allergic properties.
- MT is the only known antidote to amantine (Amanita Phalloïdes/Deathcap) poisoning.
- MT is used for treating acute liver intoxication with chemical pollutants (e.g. carbon tetrachloride), following adverse drug reactions (e.g. acetaminophen) and acute alcohol poisoning.
- MT provides protection against radiation and heavy metal damage to the liver.
- MT's actions encompass influence on cell membrane permeability, enzyme activity, cell growth.
- MT has free-radical scavenger activity (thus preventing depletion of glutathione). It protects against lipid peroxidation.
- MT promotes bile flow, which supports fat metabolism and helps preventing some forms of gall stones.
- Research suggests that MT helps to reduce those estrogen metabolites that increase cancer risk, favouring instead pathways leading to harmless metabolites.
- And yes, there's a lot of rubbish going round on the net about Milk Thistle.

Sorry for the telegram style; got a lot to do today.

regards

Ron

Kazinja,

You appear to know a lot about Milk Thistle,do you know if it is safe to use with SSRI's as both work on the liver?

Aneirin

(in reply to kazinja)

Post #: 9

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/19/2007 1:38:15 AM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

You appear to know a lot about Milk Thistle,do you know if it is safe to use with SSRI's as both work on the liver?

The SSRIs don't "work on" the liver. They are broken down by the liver.

The active ingredient apparently affects some cytochrome P450 enzymes, and the full herb will most likely affect a greater number of them, as well as affecting them harder for the same level of effect.

This is generally the case for all herbs. It is why we have the P450 system in the first place: to break down the toxic components in plants. Remember that plants don't "come up with" these substances to help us, but to stop us from eating them, either by being very unpleasant, or by killing us. Quite coincidentally, some plants have more beneficial properties than damaging properties, at least taken by themselves.

I would say it depends on the SSRI in question. If you're taking Prozac, there will almost certainly be interactions. The others are more variable, as they don't present the same wide-spectrum load to the liver.

Talk to your doctor about it. A blood workup for serum concentration of the SSRI before starting Milk Thistle, and again after a little while of taking it, will give you an idea of the effect. If it lowers the blood concentration, you will need to increase the SSRI dose to maintain the same long-term effect. If it raises the blood concentration, you should probably avoid it unless your doctor says otherwise. Either way, it may take a bit of fiddling to get the new dose right.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 10

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/19/2007 10:57:58 AM

Pilgrim

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/13/2005
Status: offline

Milk thistle is a great anti toxin after a heavy weekend.

5thp tablets help too.

As a semi proffesional DJ (as i make money out of doin it but not quite enough to quit the day job) i'm used to seeing people exceessivly wasted, both of the above seem to help people get back on track for work on a monday :)

(in reply to Aswad)

Post #: 11

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/19/2007 3:44:15 PM

kazinja

Posts: 24
Joined: 8/15/2006
Status: offline

As Aswad said: MT does not work on the liver but is broken down by it, like virtually all pharmaceuticals.
- One herb that is generally cited to interfere with SSRI's is St. Johns Worth. It supports the liver in detoxification of certain pathways and the liver sees SSRI's and many other pharmaceuticals as toxins that should be excreted ASAP.
- The Physicians Desk Reference for Herbal Remedies cites no interaction of MT with SSRI's.
- Some influence on SSRI levels is to be expected, as
- MT changes the permeability of the liver cell plasma-membrane.
- MT has some influence on the cytochrome P450 detoxifying enzyme system.
- So, if you plan to use both, I agree with Aswad that it would be good to inform your doctor and have your serum levels monitored and, if necessary, your dose adjusted.
- In my mini survey I came across quite a lot of contradictory information. Bias and emotion seem to play some role. One reference to a study describing a presumed deleterious effect of MT (the only one) did not contain any information on the subject when I looked into the original study. Be aware of herbal witchhunts, but at the same time try to err on the safe side. Ask your doctor about his opinion on herbal remedies in general.

Some info related to other drugs:
- A study of interactions of MT with digoxin shows no significant influence on digoxin half-life times
- It is reported to increase chemotherapy drug levels.
- It seems to influence anti-retroviral drug levels also.
- This does not say anything about SSRI's by the way; they may use another detox pathway.

Hope this answers your question

Ron

(in reply to Aneirin)

Post #: 12

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/19/2007 4:11:53 PM

adoracat

Posts: 1779
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthycouple

RE: Herbal Healers. Please be very careful with these people. Anyone can say he's an herbal healer and sell remedies and cure alls. I know that there are definately real herbalists out there who have gone through real training and actually know how helpful certain herbs are. There are also many scam artists out to make huge profit not only on your visits but on the herbal supplies you purchase from them.

Be wary of anyone who says things like: "Don't tell your (insert doctor, family, nutritionist etc. here) you take this...he won't understand", "I studied in the (insert place of choice here) with (insert fancy sounding name here)" and "I don't have degrees/certificates/licences because (insert bogus reason here). If they have no credentials and can't be checked up on with a phone call or two...run and run fast.

a reputable herbalist will work WITH your physician. i've one friend who i would trust beyond anything, and she regularly schedules time to go to dr appointments with her clients, and works hand-in-hand with the doctors to treat her clients. she's got 2 Masters degrees in herbalism. *that* is the type of person to work with.

she is also very careful to research drug interactions, and is careful to note allergies, etc. there are a few VERY good ones out there, unfortunately the bad ones are the ones you hear about.

i totally agree with earthycouple about being cautious with not only what you put into your body, but who you allow to suggest it.

kitten, who listens.

(in reply to earthycouple)

Post #: 13

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/19/2007 10:43:52 PM

wandersalone

Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline

As a few people have mentioned many substances are broken down/metabolised by the liver which is why in some instances pharmaceuticals and herbal remedies will not be recommended if you have liver damage. I had a tumour on my liver and was unable to take a lot of medications (including natural ones) as my liver was unable to break them down. Thankfully they were able to whip out most of my liver and due to the wonders of nature it has now regrown

My doctor and I discuss everything I take (prescribed and non prescribed) and she is able to give me info on any precautions and/or interactions.

_____________________________

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. Martin Luther King
Godmother of the subbie mafia
My all time favourite threads
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2002501
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=790885

(in reply to adoracat)

Post #: 14

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/19/2007 11:17:28 PM

maybemaybenot

Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
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Anyone who has read my posts regarding herbs will know I am a firm believer in Herbal and Natural medicine. As I always say, please, please do not take herbs without either consulting an Herbalist or cross referencing any conditions or medications you are taking with the PDR of Herbal Remidies. It is medicine and has the potential to be dangerous/lethal if you don't know what you are taking.

There have been clinical trials and research done regarding Milk Thistle and Liver diseases. Varying results, but over all positive results

Here are a couple of links from NIH and U of Maryland Meical Center:

Laboratory studies demonstrate that silymarin functions as a potent antioxidant, stabilizes cellular membranes, stimulates detoxification pathways, stimulates regeneration of liver tissue, inhibits the growth of certain cancer cell lines, exerts direct cytotoxic activity toward certain cancer cell lines, and may increase the efficacy of certain chemotherapy agents.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/milkthistle/HealthProfessional/page1/print

. However, five of seven studies evaluating milk thistle for alcoholic liver disease found significant improvements in liver function. Those with the mildest form of the disease appeared to improve the most. Milk thistle was less effective for those with severe liver disease such as cirrhosis.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/milk-thistle-000266.htm

mbmbn

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 6/19/2007 11:18:20 PM >

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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Post #: 15

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/24/2007 6:27:22 PM

PAsextoy4u

Posts: 58
Joined: 9/27/2006
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I am amazed that some people still believe that doctors and pharmaceutical drugs are the ONLY answer to health and wellness. EVERY drug has a side effect, as we are learning about Avandia, Naproxsin (sp?),Vioxx, etc. to name a few. Homeopathics and heabal remedies HAVE been researched, their effectiveness well documented, and are being used in other countries, very successfully. Homeopathics dont have side effects like drugs do.

And most doctors in America only get one, two at the most, semesters on drugs and drug interactions. They now mostly depend on drug reps, who arent likely to know the side effects or discuss them in great depth with doctors to whom they want to sell those drugs.

Homeopathics and most alternative modalities do NOT cost alot of money, certainly not compared to the drugs and surgeries that "traditional" medicine offers these days. You wont find too many herbalists and homeopathics living the lifestyle of many doctors in America, especially surgeons LOL

I personally have been HEALED of several serious life threatening conditions, or life crippling conditions. I said HEALED, not treated for, by the way. I have learned to manage any health problem, whether minor, annoying, chronic, or acute, serious, major, with homeopathic remedies, herbal remedies, and a few other supplements/substances/health foods.

If anyone wants to know more about what I have experienced and what has helped me, feel free to email me. I am willing to share in any way I can.

(in reply to aparootsa)

Post #: 16

RE: Reverse Some Effects Of Alcohol On Your Liver - 6/30/2007 10:30:07 PM

WayHome

Posts: 237
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kazinja

Sorry for the telegram style; got a lot to do today.

For someone without much time, you've managed to present an awful lot of useful information ;-)

Leto

(in reply to kazinja)

Post #: 17

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