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I think you are confusing the CONCEPT of a "Crackpot Conspiracy Theory" with the act of "Criminal Conspir

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

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Alumbrado:
What precisely have I said that might lead you to believe that I might be interested in or qualified for a job at Abu Ghraib?
thompson

See below:

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Perhaps you might share with me just how "Hooverville"was a blatant violation of the law?
If it were a violation of the law (which it was not) then would it not be the responsibility of the police and not the army?

I rest my case. Your ability to torture logic and reality in order to get what you want out of them is undeniable. Logic has rights too, so you will have to employ your skills someplace where such rights have been suspended....like Abu Gahraib
You have yet to show me where I have suspended the rules of logic.




(For those who aren't familiar with the Bonus March, the Hooverville incident that I referred to, took place when US troops led by McArthur violated the posse comitatus law by leaving Washington DC in open violation of a direct Presidential order, and proceeded to kill peaceful citizens in their encampment, which they had ironically named 'Hooverville'
Now according to Thompson, this incident was not a violation of law (see above in blue).
You missunderstand my point compleately...it was not the bonus marchers who had broken the law but MacArthur.

The excuses for the Hooverville incident that I've come across are that there were exceptions to the PC law, one crafted by the Army itself, called 'Emergency Plan White', in which the Army gave itself permission to attack in the case of armed insurrection, which this was not.
The other was that McArthur reasonably believed that he was exempt from a direct Presidential order because he was fighting a Communist attack - a claim made ridiulous by the fact that he was attacking unarmed US veterans, women and children.
I am sure you would agree that MacArthur suffered from more than a slight case of megalomania.

A clear cut and obvious violation..yet to some, it was perfectly legal, and to others, there is no such law...    ).

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You missunderstand my point compleately...it was not the bonus marchers who had broken the law but MacArthur.

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

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You misunderstand my point compleately...it was not the bonus marchers who had broken the law but MacArthur.

No misunderstanding at all... I clearly posted that the incident at Hooverville was a violation of the Posse Comitatus act...you clearly posted in direct response to that specific point, that it was not illegal.

Now you are torturing logic to claim just the opposite...again proving my point.

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

If we are saying that acting to harm someone one because of hate is the crime of conspiracy in addition to the harmful criminal act, then doesn't that make extra hate crimes legislation even mor redundant?

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: Owner59

This has all happened over time(200 years) and legally.And laws like Posse Comitatus,provide that these forces never be used against citizens.That`s for LEOs only,but they to are "well regulated"and controlled by the state.

That`s my take,and how I believe most people see it.

Peace

Owner59:
Thus my question as to why the military was used instead of LEOs at Waco and "Hooverville"
thompson

That`s a whole other thread,which I`d be perfectly happy to engage.I have mixed feeling about Waco,Ruby Ridge,etc?

Not to be a factinista,but LEOs were the guys involved in those cases,not regular army,or NG personal.They were federal law enforcment.Makes little difference,and in some ways I agree with that sentiment.
Ruby Ridge was FBI and was not on my list of incidents.
Waco is a different story.  Governor Richards sent the National Guard with tanks to assist the FBI.
Hooverville was being handled by the local police when MacArthur intervened with the military and while the president disclaimed any responsibility for it saying that MacArthur had acted without authority, MacArthur was not censured nor court martialed.  Neither Patton nor Eisenhower questioned MacArthur when it was clearly their responsibility to do so.

But the Branch Dravidian's were making fertilizer bombs,and other types of explosive devices,and blowing them on in the scrub.People could hear the explosions.That`s how the investigation into them started.
That is what the FBI says but there seems to be little evidence to back up these allegations.

If they just prayed and followed the law,no one would have acted against them.I believe they were suicidal,and used children as human shields.
This does not seem to be substantiated by anyone except the FBI.  There is a lot of video that might seem to indicate there was another agenda.

I believe that pedophile and child rapist Davis Koresh
This is the first I have heard of this and would be interested in some validation before commenting on it.

,was as nutty as they come,and as charismatic as Jim Jones and the like.

This was pre 9/11,but the feds weren`t going to let a group of would-be terrotists,make bombs.

I also have problems w/ the conduct of "some" LEOs,and the policies,at that time,in those cases.There are many ways to skin a cat.

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Once more, and that's it.

I brought up the violations of Posse Comitatus.

You mentioned the bonus marches and McArthur's actions.

I claimed that the incident where McArthur attacked Hooverville was illegal. 

You responded to that exact point with the claim that it ( the incident at Hooverville) was not illegal. 

If you were talking about something else entirely, why the need to put what I said about the attack on Hooverville being illegal, in quotes, along with your claim that it wasn't illegal?

That gives every appearance of indulging yourself in sophomoric fallacies in order to score keyboard commando 'points'. 
And that is a game that I choose not to play with you, or anyone else here.

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Riiiiight  Hope you didn't hurt yourself on the kickstand when you started pedalling backwards that hard.

Or you could explain what you have been dodging all along, which is why you posted any disagreement with my claim that McArthur's actions were illegal in the first place?

Particularly since I never said a word about anything the protestors did being a violation of posse comitatus.

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

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Now days we are saying that 911 was a conspiracy in real time and AGAIN pointing out why. 

The difference is that I rely on skepticism to decide if some conspiracy theory may or may not be true... skepticism of the government, skepticism of the media, and skepticism of those claiming the conspiracy theory. Then I employ logical and rational deductive approaches to the available information, hoping to reach some sort of useful conclusion.
That is why it didn't take me 30 years to debunk the Gulf of Tonkin incident or the government's account of Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.

You on the other hand, rely on blind faith, and refuse to question anything as long as it supports certain knee jerk reactions.
That means you have to employ sophomoric logical fallacies to cobble together a 'support' system for your forgone conclusions.

You are building up houses of cards, I am testing them.

And you are more than welcome to stick with your approach. just don't expect everyone to buy it.

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  Completely glossing over as you just have that it is a repugnant violation of the constitution and that it is the citizens responsibility, that is you the next guy and i to suppress this kind of government terror in the form of a "citizens militia".

they call that 20-20 hind sight and even worse since you did not add that the government was in complete violation of the constitution and you furhter down played it by saying that they "screwed up" rather than emphasizing the atrocity that is really is. 

Now you are just being completely dishonest.

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ORIGINAL: Real0ne

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Logic has rights too

not in this republic

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

I can't support your break with reality any longer.. you are citing things other people have said and demanding that I defend it. You are lying outright about what I have said, and calling it a cheap shot to point that out. 

Sad thing, is that you will never realize that you are the one enabling the misdeeds of the government, by your adherence to superstition and blind faith, and your assault on anyone who uses logic to question and debunk claims based on appeals to authority.

Your line of thought is Dick Cheney's wet dream brought  to life..

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The last sentence states my position clearly.  Hooverville was the responsibility of the police and not the army.  That means the responsibility for policing Hooverville was the job of the police.  The level of cooperation between Walter Waters (the organizer of the bonus march) and  Chief Glassford was unprecedented and well coordinated.

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

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The last sentence states my position clearly.  Hooverville was the responsibility of the police and not the army.  That means the responsibility for policing Hooverville was the job of the police.  The level of cooperation between Walter Waters (the organizer of the bonus march) and  Chief Glassford was unprecedented and well coordinated.

Since none of that involves a criminal violation of posse comitatus, it has no relevance to the topic actually under discussion, which was the illegal incident where McArthur attacked Hooverville.

Using the same word in an entirely different context from the topic you took the time to quote, whether disingenuous of you or not, makes the failure in communication your responsibility...

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado
I rest my case. Your ability to torture logic and reality in order to get what you want out of them is undeniable. Logic has rights too, so you will have to employ your skills someplace where such rights have been suspended....like Abu Gahraib.  

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

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The last sentence states my position clearly.  Hooverville was the responsibility of the police and not the army.  That means the responsibility for policing Hooverville was the job of the police.  The level of cooperation between Walter Waters (the organizer of the bonus march) and  Chief Glassford was unprecedented and well coordinated.

Since none of that involves a criminal violation of posse comitatus, it has no relevance to the topic actually under discussion, which was the illegal incident where McArthur attacked Hooverville.


Using the same word in an entirely different context from the topic you took the time to quote, whether disingenuous of you or not, makes the failure in communication your responsibility...

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ORIGINAL: Alumbrado



If this were the first time you had tried your high school debate tricks, I might actually buy it.  but as pointed out, your reputation precedes you.