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Mentor's Rights. - 6/18/2005 2:30:34 PM

kittenroxi

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Does a Mentor have the right to play with His/Her charge? Or should the relationship be changed from that of Mentor/charge to something else?

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/18/2005 3:57:18 PM

feline

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It has always been to my understanding that mentors didn't play with their "charges". For examples sake . . . you had a couselor in school, did you date your counselor.

I don't need any remarks from the peanut gallery about my example either.

It suited the purpose.

Best wishes,

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/18/2005 6:13:32 PM

EmeraldSlave2

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One of the nifty parts about being an independent responsible adult is that you get to do whatever you want to do and DONT do whatever you DONT want to do with whoever you want.

Generally, mentors are close friends, but lots of people play with their mentors and lots don't. Do what works for you.

But if someone tries to tell you that you SHOULD do something with them, for any other reason than you feel it's right for you, that's BS.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/19/2005 9:52:09 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

It has always been to my understanding that mentors didn't play with their "charges". For examples sake . . . you had a couselor in school, did you date your counselor.

They don't. They are your big brother or big sister. A family without incest.
At least a good mentor never plays...there are plenty of unscrupulous people out there who can't find their own subs calling themselves mentors.

Just depends if you really want to learn. Or play. If you want to play you can find a partner anywhere. Finding a good friend who will watch out for you takes a while longer.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/20/2005 8:17:01 AM

Oumae

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It depends what is agreed.

I'm not big on mentors and mentoring as a formal thing, its my personal choice. I have found having several good friends who will give advice when asked has worked well for me personally. If I feel a need it can be interesting to get several view points and to see which if any strikes a chord.

I have played with friends and stayed friends. When I wanted to learn different skills often one would show the skill using another as demo bunny and then I'd be able to try too or if someone wanted to see what something felt like I could show them how it felt from my hand. Yes, things feel different with different partners but at least there is some idea there. As friends we had a certain amount of trust established and with consent are able to show each other things.

So, back to the question, I guess it comes down to communication and consent.

Oumae

< Message edited by Oumae -- 6/20/2005 8:18:33 AM >

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/20/2005 8:22:47 AM

SweetDommes

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My personal opinion is that Dominants should be mentored by Dominants and submissives should be mentored by submissives, but maybe that's just me. There is a lot that a Dominant can't teach a submissive as a "mentor" and vice verce, and thus I think it's silly for a Dominant to try and mentor a submissive (and the other way around, although I have seen it). Being friends and watching out for them is different, and I think is great when it happens, but to title oneself as a "mentor" to someone on the other side of the D/s fence just doesn't quite work out in my mind.

But again, maybe that's just me, so ... eh, it's my opinion, take it or leave it.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/20/2005 9:30:10 AM

sub4hire

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quote:

There is a lot that a Dominant can't teach a submissive as a "mentor" and vice verce, and thus I think it's silly for a Dominant to try and mentor a submissive (and the other way around, although I have seen it).

What about when a dominant is less dominant than a submissive? Vice versa? There are a great many dominants I am more dominant over.
However, my dominant is more dominant than I am.

I feel like I just spoke a riddle so I hope it is making sense.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/20/2005 10:09:49 AM

Domin81

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I believe mentors are persons that you talk to....no sex, no play. An experienced person that is there for guidance, information and instruction. Mentors don't top or dominate, they inform.

Too often I have seen 'mentoring' used as a way to involving someone in direct activities.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/20/2005 10:13:12 AM

SweetDommes

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In my opinion, it's not a question of who is more/less dominant. It's the mindset that makes the difference. While you might be more dominant than someone who takes the dominant role, which side are you more comfortable with? Which side do you have more experience with? Which side does your heart say that you belong on? Those things should be weighed in as well, and whichever side you identify with is the side that you should mentor (should you decide to). I could give advice to a sub, but I would never presume to "mentor" one, no matter how subby I am to Holly ... because I have much more experience as a dominant, plus she is the only one that I would ever sub to ... I'm more comfortable (in general) with the dominant role, so I would not be able to give good advice on a regular basis to a submissive. Someone who is submissive would be much better to give advice to another submissive.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/21/2005 6:20:35 AM

Jayxkes

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To answer your question in simple terms, NO the mentor does not have the RIGHT to play with their charge.

To add a little meat to the bones, a mentor may play with their charge if that is what has been agreed and is appropriate to the situation.

The trouble is we all want and need different things and have different learning methods. So a mentor may show a dominant what floggers etc. feel like, so that the mentored dom has a better understanding when he uses them.

Likewise a mentor may introduce a sub to floggers etc., for much the same reason. Some NEED regular play sessions, so their mentor may fill that gap for them.

The difference between a mentor and a dom playing with a sub, is that the mentor is focussing on the sub's needs as opposed to his own. Therefore the play is probably less likely to involve sex.

It is a relationship and needs to be talked through carefully, openly and completely. Most importantly all parties concerned must consent to the idea. (bear in mind some people are mentored by someone whilst they are in a relationship with their own sub/dom).

Unfortunately there is no rule book to give us the definitive answers about such things. Apply similar rules/common sense to any other relationship and you will not go far wrong.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/21/2005 12:39:01 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

To add a little meat to the bones, a mentor may play with their charge if that is what has been agreed and is appropriate to the situation.

That is why there are so many mentor questions and problems with alledged mentor's. Generally if you are coming to a mentor you are new. In a please help me phase. You don't expect someone to take advantage of that...yet they do.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 6/21/2005 1:19:07 PM

BeachMystress

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Well, since my opinion follows Sweet's, you're talking about Dominant playing with a Dominant or a submissive playing with a submissive... I do not think that a Dominant can truly understand the feelings and needs of a submissive enough to mentor them (nor the sub understand a Dom/me enough to mentor them.) Even if the Dominant has been a submissive in the past, they are removed from what the experience was like. In my mind, this is like a history teacher trying to teach someone algebra. They know enough about teaching that they could manage it. They have a working knowledge of algebra, but are probably a bit rusty on it. They understand the theory behind it, don't have the day to day intimacy that is needed to make them totally fluent in the subject. Personally, if I wanted to learn a subject, I want to learn it from the person best able to understand/comprehend/share it with me. That is a person intimately familiar with it.

In any case, no matter the D/s orientations of the pair, I do not feel play belongs in a Mentor relationship and should never happen. There is a measure of trust and impartiality that needs to be maintained. You have to be able to point out the best way for the mentored, and if you're in an intimate relationship (playing) with them, you can't always see what is best for them.

Consider the definition of mentor: A wise and trusted counselor or teacher. Do you have intimate relations with either your counselors or teachers? No. They are kept separate because intimacy in those relationships negates the effectiveness of the counseling/teaching.

It's all good to pull out the "whatever works for you" cry, but in reality this woman is asking our advice. Do I say it can never work to have a mentor and sub playing? *shrugs* Who knows. I don't know anyone who has tried it and had it end well. Am I saying it is probably a bad idea? YES!

Playing with the person you're in a mentor relationship muddies the waters to the point that if you do it, you're in a trainer relationship, not a mentor one. And yes, there is a difference! To me, this is the same as semantics between submissive and slave. Some people use them to mean the same thing, but they do not. Training is hands on.. mentoring isn't.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 7/7/2005 2:54:28 AM

SirDiscipliner69

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My definition of a mentor is strictly safety and care....

Unfortunately My experience concerning about a dozen cases was that the "mentor" was eventually "doing" the sub when the sub in a need emotional and mindset support...

I know not all mentors are like this...

you need to communicate with your mentor to define the limits and perameters of what can be expected...

There are many out there that will not use the guise of a mentor for their own self pleasure...

Communiciate....

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 7/7/2005 3:00:46 AM

Senko

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Some times the best way to teach is through demonstration....

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 7/8/2005 11:49:01 PM

Ravenwood

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I have a mentor...Most of the time my reply will be yea,right.
sometimes it is just a phrase used to get some extra wiggle room.
Why would you have a mentor in the first place.If you are that close to them and they are that good at all of this then why would you not submit to them.

Are you a waste of time if you have mentor. I don't know on a personal level.
I have noticed though that you never,never,read in a male slaves ad about them having a mentor
just the subbie/female ads.Hmmm,I guess then the subbie females mention they have a mentor so they can start out toping from the bottom? Well.my mentor said this and my mentor said that...blah,blah,blah.

Can't wait to see the replies to this.
RW

< Message edited by Ravenwood -- 7/9/2005 12:02:15 AM >

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 7/9/2005 8:45:09 AM

EmeraldSlave2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ravenwood
I have noticed though that you never,never,read in a male slaves ad about them having a mentor
just the subbie/female ads.

It happens far more commonly in the gay male leather scene.

quote:

Hmmm,I guess then the subbie females mention they have a mentor so they can start out toping from the bottom? Well.my mentor said this and my mentor said that...blah,blah,blah.

Can't wait to see the replies to this.

It's also a nice way for a "mentor" to position themselves as the next dominant.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 7/9/2005 9:08:51 AM

flirt

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We are again discussing 'titles' and they can be picked apart and dissected by the masses. A mentor does not "play" with the friend. i also believe the best mentor for a female sub or slave is another female sub or slave, one with more experience, one that is wise and trusted. A mentor is the one that you talk to, tell your troubles too, advises you but does not Master you. A 'Trainer' (from my own definition only) is different. The Trainer can be working with your Master, or simply someone you have asked for in order to learn. i guess we can call people whatever we want, or most commonly how we were taught. Neither the mentor or the Trainer is Master to the individual, but they should work together if all are present in a relationship.

flirt

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 7/9/2005 1:27:11 PM

Faramir

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I don't know any common usage of the word "mentor" in any setting, BDSM or otherwise, where there would be a right to demand sexual or psycho-sexual service.

The idea of a "right" to use someone sort of is the opposite of the common denotations and the connotation of a mentor.

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RE: Mentor's Rights. - 7/9/2005 2:22:57 PM

pleasureforHim

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[quote]Does a Mentor have the right to play with His/Her charge? Or should the relationship be changed from that of Mentor/charge to something else? [/quote]

My mentor is a very experienced Master, who kindly took me on when i was first on collarme. He has kept me safe; taught me a great deal about BDSM; and helped me form a vision of myself within the BDSM spectrum. He would never lay a hand on me in a sexual way; that would violate our relationship. He knows things about me i freely told Him to help Him help me...not to make myself appealing to Him. He has heloed shape that vision of myself i spoke of..but not to make myself more apppealing to Him.

From reading the posts here, i gather some use "mentor" to mean more; almost "trainer"; and i guess that's fine as long as everyone agrees upfront. For myself, i believe my mentor was a blessing and i will always have a place deep in my heart for Him.

pleasureforHim

< Message edited by pleasureforHim -- 7/9/2005 2:25:37 PM >

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