RE: Anal hooks (Full Version)

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doublegreekpen -> RE: Anal hooks (7/17/2007 7:01:22 PM)

i've seen hooks similar but larger that one uses to suspend people with. I'd like to try it.



SirStephan55 -> RE: Anal hooks (7/17/2007 7:06:33 PM)

That is VERY dangerous since it open a passage between the vagina and anus - very risky.



zindyslave -> RE: Anal hooks (7/17/2007 8:45:15 PM)

that is what I was saying SirStephan55.....I am sorta intrigued by the vaginal hook they sell at stock room, it is like an anal hook in that it is used in suspension and bondage.



Lewcifer -> RE: Anal hooks (7/18/2007 2:58:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zindyslave
Well, as I said the first pic was something that would be unhealthy for the sub, and that really doesn't seem like anything that would turn most women on esspecially considering it is introducing too areas of the anatomy that should never come in to contact with one another.


Do I hear the pot calling the kettle black?  Unhealthy for the sub?  It can be argued from a medical standpoint that bruises and welts are also unhealthy for the sub.  It seems to Me Y/your intent is to bash other peoples' kinks and lifestyles.



zindyslave -> RE: Anal hooks (7/18/2007 8:06:53 PM)

I wasn't bashing anyones kink or lifestyle I was just saying that introducting the vagina and rectum is very unhealthy it can lead to very serious infections. Which isn't healthy, as far as I know brusies aren't unhealthy people get them all the time, women don't get an open path from their vagina and rectum all the time. 



DommeChains -> RE: Anal hooks (7/18/2007 8:12:22 PM)

I am agreeing wholeheartedly with you zindyslave.  There is a huge difference between hurting someone during consensual play and harming someone through ignorance or indifference.

Whether the photo was photoshopped for shock value or is an actual depiction of a vaginal to anal connection via an instrument it is not, IMHO, a practice to emulate.  The consquences for health complications for such a practice would be serious. 



Lewcifer -> RE: Anal hooks (7/18/2007 10:47:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zindyslave
I wasn't bashing anyones kink or lifestyle I was just saying that introducting the vagina and rectum is very unhealthy it can lead to very serious infections. Which isn't healthy, as far as I know brusies aren't unhealthy people get them all the time, women don't get an open path from their vagina and rectum all the time.


your characterization of bruises as not unhealthy is disingenuous, at best.  While it's true that people get bruises from time to time, they are generally not self-inflicted with the intent of causing same.  The same can be said for cutting... it would be labeled as an unhealthy practice by the medical profession, just as intentional bruising would be.

I fail to understand why you would pass judgement on some RACK activities such as hooks (which also includes body suspension), while living under the fantasy that your activites are medically safe... and then having the audacity to make a false statement in defense of your prior post.

Perhaps you're not aware of the RACK philosophy (click the link) - but instead of making disparaging comments against the sexual kinks of others (that also happen to apply to your own kinks, like it or not), you should live and let live.

As for your comment about women not getting an open path from their vagina and rectum all the time, the same is true of getting needles passed through your breasts, suspension hooks through your body, or of ATM (ass-to-mouth) activites.  It appears to Me that your attitude is, "if it's not my kink, then let's bash it - but let's pretend we're not by using fallacious and disingenuous arguments if anyone questions us."



Lewcifer -> RE: Anal hooks (7/18/2007 10:57:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeChains
I am agreeing wholeheartedly with you zindyslave.  There is a huge difference between hurting someone during consensual play and harming someone through ignorance or indifference.


Your characterization of RACK (Risk Aware Consensual Kink) activities as ignorant or indifferent is highly disingenuous and disparaging to the alternative lifestyle community in general.  Just because someone engages in RACK activites, which by their very nature imply awareness rather than ignorance or indifference as you disingenuously assume, does not make them non-consensual.  Notice how You're the only one to introduce those words into this discussion... thus exposing Your propensity for bias in the process.

Passing hooks through the body - for suspension or otherwise (as depicted by the picture in question), is a RACK activity which some enjoy.  Leave it at that and move on, rather than disparaging someone's consensual kink.



nephandi -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 2:07:08 AM)

Hi

Well first of all many do not use RACK they use SSC and that first picture sort of negate the two Ses, save and sane. There is actually a differance between safe, sane and consensual and risk awere consensual kind or RACK. Where the first do not allow for dangerous activities even if both parties want it, RACK do open for such activies as long as both parties is awere of the risks involved.

Now i do not judge, looking at pictures of such extreme torture make me hot, and i know my Master will be hot to when i show him the picture in the morning. However, inserting a hook through the walls that conects the vagina and the anal is dangerous, it is ok in RACK as long as pepole are informed of the risks, it is not ok however if one follow SSC.

And in my opinion RACK is not better than SSC or vise versa. Not all follow RACK and for those it is simply unacseptable to see such a risky activity. It is not an insult on anyones kink, it is however two different philosophies on how to stay safe an etical in the dungeon.

i wish you well



Aswad -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 6:09:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBBTBW

quote:

  okay then why did that pic look like that? *shudders* makes me nervous just thinking about it.


Because people like to do things for shock value. 


Well, posting the link was probably for shock value, the picture may not have been.
Kind of like how Goatse and Tubgirl are porn, but are posted to shock vanillas.
I, for one, added the hook piercing picture to my porn collection. [:D]



Aswad -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 6:43:23 AM)

Just thought I'd add that the picture actually seems to feature someone who has had a labia removal, possibly also a clitoridectomy. One wonders why that hasn't engendered comments, though I'm not complaining.



DommeChains -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 7:00:25 AM)

For the record I do employ RACK as my basic philosphy.  I am well aware of the use of suspension hooks, needle play, etc.  My point in regards to the one particular picture is the introduction of fecal material into the vagina and possibly even into the uterus.  The infections that can ensue from feces being in parts of the body not designed to handle them can be very serious.  That qualifies to me as harming someone  through ignorance (of anatomy & physiology, infection control) or indifference to the severity of the consquences of such an infection.

Ass to mouth also carries some risk.  However, the mouth has saliva which can destroy some bacteria and, unless the receiver of the ass to mouth has oral lesions which could be an entry point for infection, the fecal material  will pass through the remainder of the GI system with, hopefully, minimal problems.

As a nurse I have seen women have to undergo surgery, sometimes more than once, to repair a fistula (opening) between the vagina and rectum.  The reason for repairing this is to prevent infections, to prevent feces from seeping through the vagina, etc.  There is a big difference in the tissue composition between the breasts, the large muscles of the chest wall or back frequently used for hook suspension and the tissues in the perineal/vaginal/rectal area.  Wounds that result from suspension with hooks may  heal easily with minimal complications in one type of tissue but not in other more dense tissue that is also, in the case of the rectum, exposed to feces. 

If you already knew of these potential health complications and decide to proceed anyway so be it.  But not everyone on these boards has a good grounding in anatomy, etc.  I suppose the arguement can be made that RACK implies awareness but I choose to not assume that someone has fully explored the risks involved with some activities.  This is why I distinguish between hurting someone and harming someone through ignorance or indifference.



Aswad -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 7:12:48 AM)

Actually, any exposure to fecal matter would be after the fact, particularly with an enema up front. Exposuse to bacteria, however, is probably unavoidable. Note that the picture Lewcifer posted a link to depicts the penetration from the vagina, not into it, which I think quite relevant. The risk would still be quite significant, but I suspect it would be lower than going the other way around.



LaTigresse -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 7:23:05 AM)

But it still has to come back out at some point, and reverse it's path doesn't it?



Aswad -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 8:15:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

But it still has to come back out at some point, and reverse it's path doesn't it?


Yes it does, but you will get less contamination, although that may be academic.
It is similar to the "hood" on the glasses used for injectable liquids:
You have an elastic membrane and a sharp pointed object.
The pointy end pierces the membrane quite easily.
If it isn't sterile, it contaminates the contents.
Coming out, the membrane holds back.
It closes tightly around the needle.
This causes it to "drag" on it.
Ergo, less contamination.

Again, however, the difference may very well be entirely academic. I suspect that depends on what kind of cleaning you do up front, what kind of medical care you administer and how quickly you do so, along with (important) the size of the fissure. Unlike a fistula, where the tissue has died, you would be pushing through fresh tissue, which will attempt to close and heal afterwards. Given proper cleaning of the wound, sterile implements, and a fine enough gauge, it might be possible to deal with; a doctor should comment on that. I can only offer my conjecture.

All this is not to say I think it's a good idea, healthwise, regardless of the turn-on.



nephandi -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 8:26:15 AM)

Hi

To Aswad: i knew you would like the picture Master. :D

To DommeChains: For me RACK is big on the aware part. One can do what one want as long as the aprticipants know what they are getting themself into. Awereness of the risk is part of the consent. But yes many may think they have knowledge of an erea when they really do not. But i think RACK as it is suposed to be means one get a understanding of what ecsactly it is one is doing.

To LaTigresse: You do have a good point there. But I guess one could pull it all the way through, perhaps, treading the whole hook out the other way.

i wish you all well



LaTigresse -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 8:32:05 AM)

Regardless I am quite certain that is one thing I am never going to try nor do I want to watch....damn.



Missokyst -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 8:46:11 AM)

That isn't an anal hook which would be acceptable to me.  I am more of a RACK personality than an SSC, and the risk would be too great for me to accept.  The other anal hooks that they sell at TheStockroom, ect, are more for attachment purposes, rather than shock value.  I have had my nips pierced, and gotten the normal infections, removed them and 5 yrs later the holes are still intact.  I would imagine a hook of the size you show in the pic would leave a hole open for quite sometime.  I hope that someone who wants to do that would be aware of the consequences before they take the risk.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lewcifer

Do you honestly mean to tell Me you would not like to do this?





zindyslave -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 9:01:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lewcifer

quote:

ORIGINAL: zindyslave
I wasn't bashing anyones kink or lifestyle I was just saying that introducting the vagina and rectum is very unhealthy it can lead to very serious infections. Which isn't healthy, as far as I know brusies aren't unhealthy people get them all the time, women don't get an open path from their vagina and rectum all the time.


your characterization of bruises as not unhealthy is disingenuous, at best.  While it's true that people get bruises from time to time, they are generally not self-inflicted with the intent of causing same.  The same can be said for cutting... it would be labeled as an unhealthy practice by the medical profession, just as intentional bruising would be.

I fail to understand why you would pass judgement on some RACK activities such as hooks (which also includes body suspension), while living under the fantasy that your activites are medically safe... and then having the audacity to make a false statement in defense of your prior post.

Perhaps you're not aware of the RACK philosophy (click the link) - but instead of making disparaging comments against the sexual kinks of others (that also happen to apply to your own kinks, like it or not), you should live and let live.

As for your comment about women not getting an open path from their vagina and rectum all the time, the same is true of getting needles passed through your breasts, suspension hooks through your body, or of ATM (ass-to-mouth) activites.  It appears to Me that your attitude is, "if it's not my kink, then let's bash it - but let's pretend we're not by using fallacious and disingenuous arguments if anyone questions us."




I have no problems with someone using hooks in suspension play it is the simple fact that a woman most likely will get a serious infection from having an open path from the vagina and rectum. I know that most kinks in the lifestyle are medically unacceptable but the fact of the matter is, most would not do something similar to the picture. Esspecially if they had known people that had went through an infection that is caused by feces in the vagina. I am not disparaging anyone for their kink I was just stating that it isn' t healthy, some people might not have known that...that is why I mentioned it. Everyone is entitled to there kinks but as these boards sometimes help people learn then I think it is best to point out the problems that can arise from said activity so they can be aware of the risks involved.



Archer -> RE: Anal hooks (7/19/2007 9:08:55 AM)

Without knowin the knowledge the pierced and percing party in the picture have it's impossible to know if they practice anything RACK or SSC. Infection risk of that level is pretty damned high when compared to other flesh hooks (Which I have had done to myself and my slave a couple times.
The open whole that remaines would take some time at least a couple days to close. The next movement of the bowel could easily result in fecal infussion of the vagina. So I'd have to really question the qualifications of the person dong it and having it done. The medical aftercare of the practice would have to be knowledgeable to the level of professional for me to consider it to even meet RACK standards.



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