tucsonsoftly
Posts: 8
Joined: 11/21/2006
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In my opinion, part of the problem with this issue may be our neglect in appreciating the difference between pain slut submissives and service-oriented submissives - what I will call SO subs - people with true senses of selflessness who focus on others rather than themselves.
A relationship of one of each would seem difficult. At least to me, an SO sub. First, because I absolutely cannot bring myself to inflict pain, beyond activities such as OTK spankings. I realize this inability could leave my partner's needs unfulfilled.
But I think a relationship between two SO subs could be the absolute height of perfection. And could be possible, perhaps easy to develop.
Let's consider perhaps THE major difference between these two types of people. For the pain slut, the relationship is primarily physical, with secondary emotional aspects. For SO subs, the relationship is exactly opposite - primarily emotional, with secondary physical aspects. For them, the emotional experience of surrender is everything.
By definition, subs are "other-oriented". They also by definition therefore simply do not possess feelings of possessiveness.
What service-oriented subs seek is.... I hate to sound so old-fashioned here, but what they really seek is..... Love.
The opportunity to love and the reciprocal opportunity to be loved. I think their distinguishing characteristic is their deeply seated NEED to be loved. Vanillas and others in the BDSM community may well want to be loved. An SO sub NEEDS to be loved. I think in many cases as one result of early childhood issues.
If correct, this leads to astounding possibilities as to love and devotion between two SO subs. And, believe me, feelings of lust and passion aren't limited solely to Doms/Dommes.
I think that, in a mutually supportive atmosphere, assertiveness is also possible between two SO subs, and, within reason, perhaps would be even easier to achieve than in a D/s relationship.
This is illustrated by an issue that puzzles me more and more. A true SO submissive is eager to please. Or at least I am. So "demands" or "orders" from a Domme, issued as a way of expressing her dominant nature and power, are willingly accepted. They therefore become unnecessary.
A good example: Spankings. Many view spankings as a form of punishment or a method to secure behavior modification or whatever. But a true submissive enjoys being spanked. Or at least I do.
The result: I ask to be spanked, say please before, gladly fetch the paddle and say thank you after. This unruly, un-becoming conduct leaves no opportunity for a Domme to dom - a dilemma of the first order for her.
I also believe spankings can and should be administered lovingly, preferably with cuddling afterward. I ask, who better than two SO subs can perform this "ritual" and experience the resulting feelings of devotion and closeness?
For me the pain, or physical result if you will, resulting from being spanked is secondary and not particularly enjoyable. But the very act of surrendering, aka submitting, is exquisite. It is Everything. Fulfillment comes in the very act of voluntarily lying across those knees.
And most of all, crying. What seems so simple an act, yet so frowned upon in vanilla society, for males. The knowledge that crying is acceptable, even encouraged and appreciated, is an extremely powerful emotional release - and an extremely wonderful experience.
How do parents (Doms and Dommes in vanilla-world) react when their subs (children) cry? The cuddle and hold them and kiss them and make them feel better. I ask who could possibly do this better than an SO submissive partner - perhaps the only person who truly understands the complex emotional issues involved and how to channel them constructively.
As "they" say, you cannot really understand the experience of being a poor black woman in the South by reading a book. Only those who lived the life can truly understand.
Please, do not flame me for implying that some Doms/Dommes don't understand or don't care for the needs of their subs. I am not saying that. I understand that some really do care. But that fact does not negate the thesis that a relationship between two SO subs is possible and might well be close to perfection.
The sub's biggest problem? Their partner didn't spank hard enough. We all talk of the possibility of totally open, totally honest communication, totally lacking in shame, guilt or embarrassment about what we feel, as being one of the most beneficial aspects of a D/s relationship. Herein lies the solution to the "biggest problem", which I think pales in comparison with problems often experienced in a typical D/s relationship.
At worst, they only need invite a local Dom/Domme over for dinner and mutual pleasure. The D will of course gleefully accept, knowing the food will be tasty and the service will be excellent.
As will the after-dinner activities. Using the Chamber of Commerce approach, if spanking one person is fun, then spanking two people is better.
As for the subs: Visualize two subs, committed and devoted to each other, lying on the floor next to each other with their bare asses in the air, holding hands and comforting each other as they both receive their treatment.
In my opinion, a more wonderful experience is hard to imagine. Like poor black women in the South, true SO subs will understand my opinion.
As to the possibility of evolution of D/s relationships, I say yes. In a SO s/s relationship, this would evolve into a relationship based purely on kindness. What could possibly be better than a lifestyle based on kindness.
As for sexual aspects: D/s and s/s are lifestyles, not forums for sexual outlets, kinky or otherwise. Even more than a lifestyle, they are a permanent mindset, often created shortly after birth or perhaps even hard-wired. But sexual aspects are important.
Notice how many profiles of Doms and Dommes list massage (getting) as a like or love. Of course subs have those same feelings. Subs like to get massages too. And they are mentally wired to provide massages, softly and lovingly.
Massages prove my point in simple fashion. Who better can lovingly share massages than two SO subs. I think the same principle applies to foot worship, ass worship and any number of other activities with sexual overtones.
Can two SO subs collar each other? Of course they can. They do this frequently in vanilla-world, with gold or silver finger collars.
We read much in these forums as to chastity, and how the sub immediately becomes more submissive upon being caged. Unfortunately. The sub also immediately begins plotting how to manipulate his next release. This thought process creates a conflict between the parties and negates the act of very submission that caging was supposed to represent.
I believe chastity should never be taken or forced. Chastity should only be accepted, graciously, as a gift of great value, freely offered as an expression of devotion. Without any expectations of release.
Can SO subs graciously accept each other's offers of chastity as mutual expressions of their mutual devotion? Of course they can. And they will cherish these gifts as the treasures they are.
This list of compatibilities could go on and on. Mercifully, it will not.
Instead, my conclusion: Needs and desires of SO submissives can be met in an SO s/s relationship - and perhaps more easily and with superior results than in any other type of relationship.
Final thoughts, derived solely from personal experiences and introspection.
One recurring conclusion is that the SO sub (me) has a quiet yet powerful inner strength that sometimes surpasses that of Dommes. If this holds true as a general rule, an SO s/s relationship would be a relationship of two people with quiet inner strength, combined with intense desires to please and needs to be loved. Truly a tantalizing possibility.
Two, in reading profiles and in personal interactions in the local community, I find myself strongly attracted to fellow (female) submissives and less attracted to Dommes. Which has led to my increased confusion as to what I really am. An SO sub? A switch? A compassionate and caring Dom who emphases the emotional and psychological rather than the physical aspects?
All the preceding confirms my confusion for all to see. Bits of enlightenment, however small, are always sincerely appreciated.
Thanks everyone for reading. Happy days, happy trails, happy flaming.
Chuck
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2 x Subs More suitable for LTR(long term relationship)??? - 
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