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When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 6:19:17 AM   
MsOpal


Posts: 244
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline 		Argent and I are excitedly preparing for the arrival of our girl on Wednesday evening.  I am pereparing her new room, we are talking about almost nothing else.  I think we have talked and covered a lot of the potential problem areas and we recognize there will be things pop up we are unprepared for.  We have a very solid, stable relationship and can't imagine anything doing serious damage to how we feel about each other.  After 27 years we have already managed to live through and get past many things that we know have had the potential to break us apart, so we think we have a good relationship on which to build a good poly relationship.  We have moved pretty fast with this particular lady, but sometimes things just feel right.

So, here's my current question.  We imagine this is a problem particular to a very long term couple with established habits expanding to include a 3rd for the 1st time.  Argent and I talk a lot.  Sometimes it isn't unusual for us to sit at the dinner table or lay in bed and talk for an hour or more and go back and forth from important, emotional topics to silly stuff and back again, it is sort of a style of communicating that allows us to work on the issues that are important to us without getting upset or emotional and from others I have talked to -scene and vanilla- it seems to be a pretty unique communication style but it works for us.  So yesterday in one of those conversations I suddenly realized how hard it will be for us now to do that anymore.  These conversations usually sort of just happen or evolve from a normal dinner conversation as one of us realizes we have something serious we need to discuss.

My question is sort of 2 part - first of all - when 2 people out of three feel the need to talk in private - not private sex but just private important talking - how do you do it without hurting the 3rds feelings or making them worried or frightened that you are discussing "them"?  Then for us these conversations are usually kind of spontanious, so telling her "after dinner tonight Sir and I need some private time to talk about the finances" really isn't something we will think about.  If something comes up and the 2 of us really want some private discussion time and do not want her to worry or fret about it, how can we get the time we will still need, at least for a while as we really settle into this new living arrangement, and not scare her?

Thanks for input.
MsOpal


_____________________________

He held out His hand and said "Step into the abyss with me."

and I did.
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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 6:43:07 AM   
Laure


Posts: 42
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		I might not be the best person to answer this one, but it would seem to me that since the Other will be part of the relationship, perhaps the long talks will naturally grow to include her.  Since they just sort of happen, it could be a great opportunity for your Other to listen and learn.  Even living together, there are lots of opportunities for private time.  The 3 of you won't be conjoined or anything silly like that, and there may even be times that you start a conversation in which the Other will have no interest. 
Polyamory without lots and lots of communication just won't work. 

Congratulations! and enjoy!

(in reply to MsOpal)
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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 7:30:37 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Over time she will have to become a natural part of those discussions most of the time.  This is where YOU both will have to bend and mold to her and work to make sure she is included.  It will likely have to be a conscious effort on your parts, to not only explain what is going on, but to ask her direct questions and get her "up to speed" with you guys.  You've got decades of a relationship together, she will never "catch up" to that.  But over the years, she can and will form a NEW relationship with you all, and that should include some of its own rituals and private jokes and experiences as a threesome.

For the privacy thing, just do what you can to foster an open situation in which if you need to talk, the person can go to that one and say "Hey, can we talk in private?" and the other person says "Sure, let's go to your room" and then have a good talk.  Granted, the other person needs to know that in the middle of a movie isn't the time to ask for that talk, and the people talking in private need to let the other person know "We're just going to talk about stuff between us, nothing to do with you or the relationship" and then after the talk, make sure to do something together- even if it's just a good night hug and kiss.  This will reaffirm all is well.  Also, attitude will shine through more than anything.

Obviously you've already decided that you don't need so much private time that it will interfere with the private and group time that this third will require as well, so as long as everyone is open and openly discusses what needs to be discussed, then it should be fine- well, in a few years anyway :)

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 7:59:50 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		In the one and only poly relationship I have ever been in, we scheduled something along those lines, not just on a spontaneous occurance, but almost daily there was one on one time for everyone...A+B, B+C, A+C. We may not alwasy have important things to discuss to each other than, "hey, hows it going today," but it kept us from wondering when we might get the chance to talk, seemed like we would hold things back if we were unsure about when we would get the opportunity to talk privately without upsetting the other, and once we got into this habit, communication was so much easier. It will take time to work out a system that works for the three of you, and more and more of what you used to think of as "private" between you and Argent, will now begin to include the third also. But there will always be a need for private conversation...and the more open you are with each other about it, the easier it will be.

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Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 8:08:25 AM   
MsOpal


Posts: 244
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline 		GhitaAmati and Laure and LA,
thanks.  Yes, we do know and plan to include her mostly, or a lot and yes we do plan/hope/understnad that as our threesome love grows any 2 of us will need less 1 on 1 time.  And we actually, at least in the beginning do have 1 on 1 private time sort of built in each day.  In the beginning she will sleep in her own room, joining us in the early am for coffee/cuddles to start the day. but at bedtime Argent will "tuck her in" a phrase that sort of began between them as a funny thing to say and now has grown to have it's own "special" meaning for them. We hope/plan that pretty soon she will sleep with us most of the time and that at any time either she or I want some "alone" time I can just ask to go sleep in the guest room or she can ask to sleep in her room.  We know that very open and honest communication is really a good key for every relationship.  She just has some real self-image or self confidence issues based on her past experiences where she was not included and deliberately left out, which was of course very hurtful to her and harmful to the relationship she was in then.  We want to try hard to just reinforce our committment to her in every way we can and not even accidently hurt her, and hope when we do we can see it and help her understand we didn't mean to.  I'm not even sure I am explaining it correctly.  It's just that the closer Wednesday gets the more scared I am - not of failure or that this isn't right or good for all of us.  I just know she is a good person inside her heart and she has been hurt so badly in the past and it would kill me inside if I ended up hurting her as well.  She deserves so much good and she has had so much bad, I just want to be able to give her a safe place and a good life and now I am just getting scared that somehow I will end up doing something "wrong" and because of her past she will think I wanted to hurt her.  Are these sort of feelings/fears normal at the beginning of a 3some?  I know if I get hurt some I'll be fine.  I know Argent loves me and nothing will ever change that and I feel vry safe and secure.  I want to share that kind of feelings and life with her and yet I know I am not always perfect and that I may end up saying/doing something unintended.  I want to try and be prepared to fend off anything like that if I can and fix it when it does happen. Sorry for the ramble, I am finding it unusually hard to really espress my feelings/fears right now.  I thought I was too old to have this kind of butterflies in my stomach anymore! I go from giggling to crying and back and forth for no reason.  Hope that all stops pretty soon!!!
Thanks for the place to ramble on about it all.
MsO.

< Message edited by MsOpal -- 7/23/2007 8:10:05 AM >

_____________________________

He held out His hand and said "Step into the abyss with me."

and I did.

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 8:12:37 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's normal for people who are seriously thinking it through :)

I wouldn't bet on needing LESS one-on-one time over the years.  The best poly relationships I've known are the ones in which everyone is free and encouraged to know what they need in terms of private time, and private time with someone else, and can fairly regularly get that. 

Her issues will really just need time time time, self awareness, and tons of practice within a healthy environment that forces her to act and recognize herself as a stable independent adult.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 8:27:34 AM   
GhitaAmati


Posts: 3263
Joined: 5/30/2007
Status: offline 		I think private time is something that will continue to be needed as time goes by, I just meant the topics that were once deemed as "private" might change.

Butterflies are compleatly normal, and I worry more about the folks who dont have them than those that do! I hope the best for all of you!

_____________________________

I said I was a submissive, I never said I was a GOOD submissive.


Sex without love is a meaningless experience, but as far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good.
~Woody Allen

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 8:29:44 AM   
Ysabo


Posts: 21
Joined: 4/8/2007
Status: offline 		MsOpal,

It's so wonderful to hear someone expressing such concern for a potential submissive. I am one of those who has been hurt, sometimes intentionally, and I hope I can find a Master who is as concerned for my safety, well-being and feelings as you are for your new "other". Good luck to you all, and I'm sure everything will work out great. You certainly have the heart and courage for the undertaking *smiles*

ysabo

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/23/2007 8:11:21 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		MsOpal and Argent, firstly, wishing you both all the best with the addition of your third. Secondly, butterflies are definitely normal and to be expected, and I would be more concerned if you weren't feeling them! Thirdly, I know how you feel ... I currently have a sub staying for a week ... I was VERY nervous on Friday when she arrived (Master found that very amusing!), took Me a while to settle. she too has had an awful first experience of bdsm, and like you, I have been very motivated to not repeat that and in fact, to help her get over that and see things from a different perspective. So far, so very good! Now she's only here for a week, though with potential to work towards a 24/7 future ... but in a small scale, the issues are similar. I made it clear that this would be a "normal week" in O/our lives ... I have work to do, I spend some time here on collarme, there will be chores to do, some chance to play, shopping, Avon deliveries etc etc! she arrived knowing there would be times when she would be expected to "do her own thing" and also times when Master and I would need some private space without her feeling "left out". So far that has worked out well, last night she offered to go and watch TV in another room, but as she was planning to watch the same show as U/us, I told her to stay in the lounge! The dogs adore her, so she is very much part of the family which is amazing in just 4 days! I'm going to be so sad to say goodbye

For your situation, you need to assure her that you don't want her to feel left out, and that she is to tell one of you when/if she feels that happening. Neither you nor Argent are psychic, so she needs to be ready to tell you! I really do hope it all works out!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/24/2007 6:17:37 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsOpal

My question is sort of 2 part - first of all - when 2 people out of three feel the need to talk in private - not private sex but just private important talking - how do you do it without hurting the 3rds feelings or making them worried or frightened that you are discussing "them"? Then for us these conversations are usually kind of spontanious, so telling her "after dinner tonight Sir and I need some private time to talk about the finances" really isn't something we will think about. If something comes up and the 2 of us really want some private discussion time and do not want her to worry or fret about it, how can we get the time we will still need, at least for a while as we really settle into this new living arrangement, and not scare her?

Thanks for input.
MsOpal



This is what we have done.

Before Fox moved in we set up private nights where it would be only me and him or me and Tom. Then through the years we've set up evening times like this -- Tom and I right after dinner, Fox and I around bedtime.

If we need extra time in private we simply go to another part of the house.

This might work for us because each of us feels a need for private personal time so we don't spend the entire evening or weekend day together as a household.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/24/2007 8:38:05 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I think its brilliant that you're asking this question and thinking about it.

The situation I have is still new, but so far this hasn't been an issue at least not for me.  They're an long established couple but its been rather easy to kind of blend in.  From the perspective of a secondary/submissive, my bond is with Him first and we have plenty of time weekdays to talk when she's at work.  I expect for them to need/want time for themselves in the evenings/weekends so I try to be aware of that and keep a lower profile if need be. (I sleep in a separate bedroom and tend to go to bed earlier than them unless he wants me to stay up.) If they're discussing something in front of me that doesn't really impact me, I stay quiet unless I'm asked for my perspective/opinion.  This just kind of evolved naturally out of our situation/personalities, but things have been about as good communication-wise as I could hope for or have ever had in a D/s relationship.



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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/24/2007 9:12:10 AM   
Emelina


Posts: 5
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline 		As the third in a M/s triad I can tell you it's so important to be included. It can be very easy to feel like a lessser partner but over time the feeling wanes and you feel more a part of things. The more inclusive things are at first the easier it will be for 2 partners to take alone time without anyone feeling excluded. 

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/24/2007 3:45:15 PM   
SayaNereida


Posts: 152
Joined: 7/10/2007
Status: offline 		Speaking as one that joined an existing couple(7 years), in my case there really wasn't much the couple could do to combat the feelings I had as a result of past relationships.  It simply took time. 
 
No matter how you say that you don't want her to 'feel' left out, the 3rd is left out when 2 are spending time alone.  Now, I'm not saying they are intentionally being left out for the purpose of exclusion, I'm saying simply the truth, the 3rd when 2 are spending time is in fact left out. 
 
Believe it or not, the 2 of you may have the same feeling when she is spending time with the other.
 
The question isn't how to stop the feeling but more about how to make it not feel negative to the one feeling it...does that make sense to anyone but me?

< Message edited by SayaNereida -- 7/24/2007 3:53:32 PM >

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/24/2007 6:06:12 PM   
MistressStiletto


Posts: 46
Joined: 7/6/2007
Status: offline 		In my Family, there are plenty of times between the 4 of us that someone somewhere needs to speak with someone else away from the others. After 2 years of everyone being here, there is not a lot that we don't know about everyone else, however no one wants to feel like they have a big audience when they need to discuss important issues.
Generally, two will either happen to have time alone to talk, or perhaps schedule some time to talk about things. I've found that once the initial conversation is over, it's not hard for the participants to describe the conversation for the others in a way that no one feels left out. We don't encourage secrets, and we are all open and honest with each other on a daily basis. Also, no matter what is discussed, if there is a difference of opinion, we all support each other in a non-judgmental way.

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/25/2007 5:49:45 AM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Greetings MsOpal,

if part of the two of you are the Dominant couple and the third is the slave...then the third should NOT be included in all. there are just some things that do not include her within the primary relationship

Fyre also believes it to be important that  time for 'talks' be estab;lished for all interwoven parts of the dynamic...you and she...the other and she..and all three...be it as somesort of ritual or just scheduled time

for getting to know each, establishing a secure base and development of trust...and hell sometimes just for shitz n gigglez

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"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/25/2007 7:51:55 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fyreredsub
if part of the two of you are the Dominant couple and the third is the slave...then the third should NOT be included in all. there are just some things that do not include her within the primary relationship

Anyone else find it highly amusing for a supposed gorean slave in training trying to tell a dominant how their relationship should or should not work?

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/25/2007 12:56:55 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Not as amusing as the catfight likely to ensue..... 

MsOpal,

Others have given excellent advice already; something's been left out though.  If you think back to when you first started dating Argent, did you two establish the depth of communication immediately?  It likely took months and years to really achieve the kind of intimacy you two now enjoy.  You said

quote:

We have moved pretty fast with this particular lady, but sometimes things just feel right.


I don't wish to be a naysayer here; it'll help all of you immensely if everyone understands that intimacy takes time, patience, and trust.  That there won't be an 'even' dynamic for many weeks and months to come.  That it will be hard.  Not taking a great deal of time to really get to know the third is going to bite you in the rear.  Ask yourself, if you weren't with your current partner, would you be in such a rush to welcome this girl into your life, house, and bed?  Would he?  If not... then why are you doing so now?

As these decisions seem to already be made, I can only wish the best for you; but as you're asking for perspectives, be ready for some serious difficulties that you haven't, or chose not to, forsee.

And, in all honesty, good luck.

Stephan


< Message edited by Stephann -- 7/25/2007 1:02:30 PM >

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/25/2007 1:42:15 PM   
fyreredsub


Posts: 3403
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		greetings Master Stephan,

(fyre saw it at noon time and it didnt  qualify for a battle she feels is worthwhile.*grins*) Nor does she care to be this evenings entertainment. she'll save that for others with louder opinions

*chuckles*
fyre can and does speak as  a slave that is fourth female in a House.
three of us are slaves to a dom couple 
so there may be just a wee bit o' experience from the other end for perspective

May she wish you well
edited for typo

< Message edited by fyreredsub -- 7/25/2007 1:43:56 PM >

_____________________________

"Accordingly, men must then either fulfill their nature, or deny it, and in denying their nature, deny us ours, for ours is the complement to theirs. " Renegades

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/25/2007 2:30:37 PM   
Belladonna82


Posts: 171
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline 		Oh how I love you to death fyre, we have always had the same views. Personally from experience, I agree with you fyre.

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Blessed be!

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RE: When 2 of the 3 just need private time to talk??? - 7/25/2007 5:34:32 PM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		i believe some of the poly advice does not apply when it colides with the agreed definition of a "Master" or "slave".

In many houses a slave would not be privy to the all conversations. In others, open communication is key to their success. To each their own. i respect more the agreement in advance than i do the individual choice.

My fingers are crossed for you Ms Opal, and for your family's happiness.

Master's dorei

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