Government Wiz Kids Speak Up!

Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/23/2007 9:07:39 PM)
Ok i have been thinking. (everyone duck) LOL Pondering the single mostest greatest thing we could do to get back to a lawful government. A thought popped into my head the other day and admittedly i have not thought it through but i figured with all the talent out here i would just throw it out and see where the chips wind up. I think th eunderlying problem with any government is mission creep. That is government that winds up ruling the people as we have now rather than the people being the government, Much is done as a matter of convenience both on the parts of the government and people as well. Hell we dont want to get rid of our credit cards do we? It seems to me that once we take care of the federal banks and the budget and DOJ and get rid of most of these departments whose real function is to spy on the american people then we can sit down and decide how to prevent it from happening again. i think the one thing we need is a 4th branch of government. The overseers. Call it the Regulative or whatever... Its function would be to over see the government with direct intervention from the people. Now before you say i am totally full of shit here... Think about this for a moment... Granted i am all for the constitution and this is not an attempt to change that. This would be an amendment to close a sore loophole in which the federal government has used to create this (insert ___tocracy here). That is what it boils down to. We essentially have 52 governemnts. The individial states, the states as a union, and finally the federal government which is comprised of the branches. My suggestion or thought here is that the regulative branch be added to insure the other 3 branches of governmets fly straight with us and with the power to enforce it. What that means is that they are our voice down to the county level and are the peoples voice. They would have the power to second guess anything done by the government and the people would have direct access to them and vice versa. This group should consist of a member from each county so its nice and personal and close to home. This group like anyone in a company can be fired and replaced at any time with a 50.01:49.99 vote from that county but be re-elected indefinitely by the people county. It would be their duty to be the direct liason between the people and the 3 branches. The 3 branches would operate exactly like they do now with one exception. before their little escapades can become "official" law it must pass regulatory acceptance from every county and likewise and the state level. Granted. at first glance this would seem to be a huge expansion in government but in the end it would reduce the government to a minimum level because we would be involved directly, and being at a county level everyone would be talking about politics such that politics is everyones business as it should be. i believe something along these lines would greatly reduce the mission creep and slow cancer of corruption. The people would be able to challenge anything and like the other 3 branches would receive tax funding to manage the peoples business and insure it is done according to the constitution. My thinking is with the ability to fire them at any time and re-elect at the first sign of not managing the peoples business would put fear into our government instead of the other way around as it is now. Citizens would now have direct access and control over the operations of governent. They would have the powers to redact, send whatever back for any one of the 3 branches to come up with acceptable legislation or court rulings if it goes against the constitution as WE THE PEOPLE understand it. Time to do some serious educating huh? (lot of side bennies) This would create a government with what would appear to me would have the necesary checks and balances to fill in all loopholes and even those in the future that we do not see now. sort of a citizens watchdog group with some serious financing and teeth. No rich bastard will be able to get in and corrupt enough people fast enough if we can turn them over faster than they can corrupt them. It would make corruption on the grand scale that it is now virtually impossible. Now this is just a thought of what i believe would be a real solution to resolving the problems of this country at its core. That is not to say this would not really need to have the dents hammered out as i amn sure there are lots of problems with it on the surface but i think it is an example of what i belive this country needs. We need to close the loopholes that big money can squirrel their way into and corrupt the system and bringing it down to the county level with the ability to perform a quick turnover on a county, state, or nation wide basis of our regulators for impropriety leaving the other 3 branches of government essentially as is with eception to one more approval stage of the regulators would put government back in the conversations at the dinner table and "keep it real" man. Ok darts! ready! fire! LOL What do you all think? Piss poor or sort of kinda workable? Bad points? good points? failure poiints? something to consider? pure garbage? pitfalls? pros? cons? scrap it and start over? LOL you get the idea... i think our forefathers only made one mistake. They thought everyone was going to be statesmen and have integrity, if we are responsible for our damn goivernment then at least we deserve a say so in it. i meaan some say so with teeth!

subfever -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/23/2007 9:48:53 PM)
quote: Pondering the single mostest greatest thing we could do to get back to a lawful government. In my opinion, one should always seek to look for the main source of a problem, then address the root cause. Therefore, the place to start is all the way up on top. Level the playing field. That's the first and foremost step. Abolish the Federal Reserve and its fractional reserve banking system. Put the power of money creation back into the hands of the people, for the benefit of the people. There is no good reason why we should keep a system where 5% of the population owns 95% of the wealth, and 95% of the population scrape and claw over one another for the remaining 5% of the wealth. This is the system that allows our decaying infrastructure, and enables war for the enrichment of the elite. The second step is to abolish the lobby system entirely. The government will no longer be for sale to the elite, for the benefit of the elite. The third step is to abolish the IRS and all taxes on income earned by US citizens within the United States. Corporate taxation is restructured. Corporate welfare ends. Outsourced labor and/or service needs to be addressed. I'll withhold the next seven steps, since I don't want to derail your OP anymore than I already have... [;)]

gooddogbenji -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/23/2007 9:58:08 PM)
We already have regulators. I call it voting people out on a consistent basis. No need to complicate it, because as long as people vote for the same senators, they'll vote for the same regulators. It's like building a second safety on a gun to prevent violence. Yours, benji

Real0ne -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/23/2007 10:16:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever quote: Pondering the single mostest greatest thing we could do to get back to a lawful government. In my opinion, one should always seek to look for the main source of a problem, then address the root cause. Therefore, the place to start is all the way up on top. Level the playing field. That's the first and foremost step. Abolish the Federal Reserve and its fractional reserve banking system. Put the power of money creation back into the hands of the people, for the benefit of the people. There is no good reason why we should keep a system where 5% of the population owns 95% of the wealth, and 95% of the population scrape and claw over one another for the remaining 5% of the wealth. This is the system that allows our decaying infrastructure, and enables war for the enrichment of the elite. The second step is to abolish the lobby system entirely. The government will no longer be for sale to the elite, for the benefit of the elite. The third step is to abolish the IRS and all taxes on income earned by US citizens within the United States. Corporate taxation is restructured. Corporate welfare ends. Outsourced labor and/or service needs to be addressed. I'll withhold the next seven steps, since I don't want to derail your OP anymore than I already have... [;)] i agree with the greater majority of what you said here. i assume you mean unapportioned taxes as i cant imagine a system without taxation from somewhere and as long as it is apportioned and does not give the feds or any part of the governemtn a blank check as they have now i would agree with that too. So what do you feel is the solution that is ideally withing or can work within the existing constitution with an amentment maybe or such that we can do to stop the slow cancer of corruption from creeping, say if we had a clean slate to start with like day 1 here is the us of a... How would you structure the government to prevent this from happening again?

popeye1250 -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/23/2007 10:36:23 PM)
RealOne, I'd be in favor of anything that gave The People more oversite over our government! Now, how do we get rid of those Lobbyists on "K" street?

Termyn8or -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/23/2007 10:39:07 PM)
Real, you are just afraid of my revolution. Admit it. Surely you can see that any deviance from the plan of the bankers will result in financial ruin. Even if we start building factories today, any moves that do not reflect "good credit" on our part will devastate the US economy. Be will become isolationaist, but not by choice. They might have price controls, but big business will not put up with it. When you have a $15,000 car and the microprocessor in the computer costs $5,000 who do you think is going to pay that ? The dollar is in deep shit, or will be very soon. Then you will know how bad outsourcing is. Really. We import food and everything now. It's as if the powers that be want us to learn to produce nothing, and if that was their goal, they have pretty much succeeded. I think even with your plan the hammer comes down, so we might as well have a good time. T

charmdpetKeira -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 4:04:09 AM)
The plan as it is stated looks to me, like putting the cart before the horse. Putting more people in charge, who have the same prospective as the group already there, is not going to change a thing. Education is a good start, but seeing that the government already has its hands in that, who dictates what “serious educating”, is? Something to consider; the government isn’t the core of our problem; it is merely a reflection of its people. As long as we continue to live as a bunch of people, looking out for number one, who happen to occupy the same chunk of land, instead of a group; government will always have the upper hand. k

subfever -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 7:52:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So what do you feel is the solution that is ideally withing or can work within the existing constitution with an amentment maybe or such that we can do to stop the slow cancer of corruption from creeping, say if we had a clean slate to start with like day 1 here is the us of a... How would you structure the government to prevent this from happening again? Regardless of how we structure government, we are not going to be able to remove the 7 deadly sins of man: lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, vengeance, envy, and pride. For the most part, we are primarily concerned with greed, as it applies to our representatives in government. For greed gives birth to corruption. Therefore, there are only two methods of preventing or greatly reducing corruption in government. We can either: Remove as many profit motives for career politicans as possible... which the abolishment of the lobby system at least partially does. After all, many politicians' primary motive to hold office is to line the pockets of themselves, their families, their friends, and their cronies. Contract awarding needs to be restructured, and made an open book to the public... perhaps even subject to public referendum. Or we can install a monitoring system, knowing full well that most men will succumb to offers of great value, if no such monitoring system is in place. Politicians can submit to an annual test. Accurate lie detection technology exists. One simple question would need to be asked. "Have you used the power of your office to serve or benefit any person or entity other than the people of United States or the Constitution?" Those who fail the test are immediately dismissed from office. Right now, things are flip-flopped. The government's monitoring of the people is increasing... when it should be the other way around.

windchymes -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 7:53:27 AM)
As part of their staff, every politician gets their own legal prostitute. That way, they can focus on the issues at hand with a clear and relaxed mind instead being clouded with thoughts of where their next blow job is going to come from and from whom, how they're going to keep anyone from finding out, and how to control the damage one they are found out .

mnottertail -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 7:54:23 AM)
a prostitute for every pol. Herbert Hoover Dom

farglebargle -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 7:55:07 AM)
A small, impotent Federal Government and Strong State and Local Government is the fix to those problems.

Real0ne -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 8:40:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle A small, impotent Federal Government and Strong State and Local Government is the fix to those problems. agreed but how do we prevent the states from ceding their power to the feds as they have done in the past and continue to do even today? The latest gig here is to cede gun control to the feds for example, (it was a crowded meeting) but it is the way our local as in state legislators think. pass on responsibility to someone else sort of attitudes that are so prevelant today.

farglebargle -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 8:47:14 AM)
I dunno. Perhaps by revoking the 17th Amendment, and making Senators serve at the pleasure of their State's Legislature?

Real0ne -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 9:00:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subfever quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne So what do you feel is the solution that is ideally withing or can work within the existing constitution with an amentment maybe or such that we can do to stop the slow cancer of corruption from creeping, say if we had a clean slate to start with like day 1 here is the us of a... How would you structure the government to prevent this from happening again? Regardless of how we structure government, we are not going to be able to remove the 7 deadly sins of man: lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, vengeance, envy, and pride. For the most part, we are primarily concerned with greed, as it applies to our representatives in government. For greed gives birth to corruption. Therefore, there are only two methods of preventing or greatly reducing corruption in government. We can either: Remove as many profit motives for career politicans as possible... which the abolishment of the lobby system at least partially does. After all, many politicians' primary motive to hold office is to line the pockets of themselves, their families, their friends, and their cronies. Contract awarding needs to be restructured, and made an open book to the public... perhaps even subject to public referendum. Or we can install a monitoring system, knowing full well that most men will succumb to offers of great value, if no such monitoring system is in place. Politicians can submit to an annual test. Accurate lie detection technology exists. One simple question would need to be asked. "Have you used the power of your office to serve or benefit any person or entity other than the people of United States or the Constitution?" Those who fail the test are immediately dismissed from office. Right now, things are flip-flopped. The government's monitoring of the people is increasing... when it should be the other way around. i agree in principle, however how do we implement that? The only way i can think of to implement that is to have people (chicken farmers, goat herders, butchers) etc directly involved in the process of all 3 branches. i cannot think of any other way to prevent things from going into secretville over time. How would we monitor to prevent things like passing legistaion when most of the legislators are on holiday? That kind of government is purely manipulating and circumventing due process. That is no way to pass an amendment. (16th) The latest gig for clinton and bush etc for instance is to write and execute an EO then there is a time delay to fight it out in the courts and of course during that time delay he gets to violate or ride that cutting edge of violating laws till a ruling comes down saying he cannot. Its a lot to monitor....

popeye1250 -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 9:37:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I dunno. Perhaps by revoking the 17th Amendment, and making Senators serve at the pleasure of their State's Legislature? I agree with that! There is no way one person like Ted Kennedy should be serving for fourty five years!

Real0ne -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 9:40:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: charmdpetKeira The plan as it is stated looks to me, like putting the cart before the horse. Putting more people in charge, who have the same prospective as the group already there, is not going to change a thing. Education is a good start, but seeing that the government already has its hands in that, who dictates what “serious educating”, is? Something to consider; the government isn’t the core of our problem; it is merely a reflection of its people. As long as we continue to live as a bunch of people, looking out for number one, who happen to occupy the same chunk of land, instead of a group; government will always have the upper hand. k We dictate. People throughout this country do have the original literature as well as universities etc. The reason that i suggested that we have the regulator group who ino would have trump power only in that they can send legislation back to the creators, including the judicial. It would only really give us the people to the power to block anything the government thinks it wants to do and the power to send it back to the drawing boards until the come up with something that is satisfactory to the people at large. The whole idea is that this group has a 50.1/49.9 voting rule for only one reason and that is so we can get things accomplished. Put it to high and we would never agree on anything. The next thing i was thinking is that since the constitution was meant to be read interpreted by literally anyone with an iq of about 80ish. The object here was to get many people and what are we talking about? Maybe an average of 50 - 60 counties per state and 50 states, so 2500 people on the regulatory branch with full accomadations and budget that we place higher than the budget of the other 3 branches combined such that our regulators have more money and can not be worn down in courts through attrition ect. With 2500 chicken farmers, candlestick makers etc one would need to corrupt over 1250 people to pull some real crap on us as have been done in the past between our 3 branches. My thinking is such that by taking a very large cross section of this country that it would be impossible for aryan hitler types to install all his aryan buddies in strategic government positions (as is being done now), to manipulate us to the greatest extent of the law and beyond. They can do it but they would be as FB put it impotent because we the people hold the trump card and final say or approval with full rights to instal sunset clauses or monitor for effectiveness and powers to enforce standards in law making to avoid all the contradictions in law we have now, to send back any law(s) existing or otherwise back to the judicial to fix etc. That and the cross section chan be changed on the whim of the people unlike the senators. So my thoughts run a course that if we can rotate people in and out rapidly, combined with a large cross sectional diversity, in combination with holding lots of county wide voting on "any" issue being worked on by the government without a need for petition of any kind. Just walk in and vote on something/anything of your choice that is on the docket and the regulatory group will review these results insure the policy that the 3 other branches are creating is in line with the will of the people and so forth. We the people now become the largest lobbier with teeth. The sole purpose of my suggestion is to "keep it real", and to keep it constitutional and to keep it for the people and of the people. i think with the ability to rotate in and out at a whim which we do not have with our present legislators, nor would we want to do that with them imo, would prevent corruption pretty well... i think the quality of our government would go from the negative like it is now to the most desired place to live(again) for the second time in history and then we would have to protect our borders not only from mexicans but the whole freaking world at large would want to move in. LOL Whatcha think?

farglebargle -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 9:43:08 AM)
"My thinking is such that by taking a very large cross section of this country that it would be impossible for aryan hitler types to install all his aryan buddies in strategic government positions (as is being done now), to manipulate us to the greatest extent of the law and beyond." What's the difference between a Nazi and a Crazy Religious Fundamentalist like Monica Goodling?

Real0ne -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 9:48:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle I dunno. Perhaps by revoking the 17th Amendment, and making Senators serve at the pleasure of their State's Legislature? What advantage is there to doing it that way? i am not sure i embrace the nuances of it. If memory serves correctly then we would need to go back to electors for our state reps and the only people allowed to be electors in those days were property owners.

Real0ne -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 9:53:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle "My thinking is such that by taking a very large cross section of this country that it would be impossible for aryan hitler types to install all his aryan buddies in strategic government positions (as is being done now), to manipulate us to the greatest extent of the law and beyond." What's the difference between a Nazi and a Crazy Religious Fundamentalist like Monica Goodling? well my thoughts were that the regulatory group cannot make law and its purpose is really to be like a review board if you will and can only send law/legislation back to the creators. It seems to me that worst that could happen is law creation would be dealayed till the storms blew over no? So that in effect would make the people impotent to a certain extent. All law would still have to be created through the exact process it goes through now from all other respects...

farglebargle -> RE: Government Wiz Kids Speak Up! (7/24/2007 9:55:06 AM)
Actually, in the case I'm thinking of, Senators are APPOINTED by the State Legislature, and therefore don't need to worry about the election cycle, or anything. And if the Senator from New York displeases the Legislature of New York, there WILL BE a new Senator from New York who is obedient to the Legislature of New York.

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