"No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (Full Version)

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Owner59 -> "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 8:21:21 PM)

http://www.noendinsightmovie.com/



This soon to be released film documents the war in Iraq .It has interviews with  men and women who were actually there ,dodging bullets and filling boots.From the soldiers and commanders doing battle to the civil servants working there,up to interviews w/ top staff members like Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage.

Attention bush supporters:
you`re not gonna like this.Just skip the movie and start the smear campaigns and character assassinations.Start w/ Richard Armitage,then go to bashing Ambassador Barbara Bodine, as nutty/slutty.Then attack General Jay Garner (in charge of the occupation of Iraq through May 2003) as trying to help the enemy.



 



Sinergy -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 8:25:34 PM)

 
Owner59,

You are giving them all ideas of how to dig their way out of the manure pile they have gotten themselves in to.

I keep waiting for at least one of the cheerleaders for AnencephalyBoy to have the testicals to actually apologize.

Sinergy



TheHeretic -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 8:34:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Just skip the movie and start the smear campaigns and character assassinations.




         Doesn't always work that way.  You had to see Ghosts of Abu Ghraib, for instance, to understand how deeply intellectually dishonest a film it was.  It probably won't be what the film includes, but what they choose to leave out, that will allow a decision if it is documentary or propagandist crap.

       I even see the Michael Moore films, as soon as they are available as bootlegs.



Lordandmaster -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 8:37:28 PM)

Uh huh, and why was Ghosts of Abu Ghraib intellectually dishonest?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You had to see Ghosts of Abu Ghraib, for instance, to understand how deeply intellectually dishonest a film it was.



Sinergy -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 8:41:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh, and why was Ghosts of Abu Ghraib intellectually dishonest?

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

You had to see Ghosts of Abu Ghraib, for instance, to understand how deeply intellectually dishonest a film it was.



I cant wait to hear this.

Sinergy  (making popcorn)

p.s.  On a related note, the failure of the United States to secure munitions dumps in Iraq was documented in the book Cobra II, written by the General in charge of the initial invasion.  Feel free to argue with him about what happened on the ground.



TheHeretic -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 8:46:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh, and why was Ghosts of Abu Ghraib intellectually dishonest?





       I'm just going to copy and paste from a WyrdRich post on the thread discussing the film (I doubt he'll sue [8|] )


"What happened at Abu Graib was ugly, but the film wasn’t really about that.  It was an attempt to shift the responsibility from the guards who performed the acts to the highest levels of the administration.  Such a case might be made, but “Ghosts of Abu Graib” makes it in a dishonest way.  Creating propaganda is as much about what you leave out, as what you put in.  What this film leaves out is critical.

      There was plenty of footage from the Milgram Experiment, where it was demonstrated that people will act in violation of their basic values in obedience to authority.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment   The implication was made that these soldiers would only have done such things under coercion. What was never mentioned, was the far more applicable Stanford Prison Experiment, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment .  I consider such an omission clear evidence of dishonest intent on the part of the films producers."



Sinergy -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 8:49:53 PM)

 
So what you are saying is that we as a society are unable to trust the people who take an oath to uphold the
Constitution?

Sweet.  Thanks for making that point.

Sinergy



TheHeretic -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 8:53:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy


So what you are saying is that we as a society are unable to trust the people who take an oath to uphold the
Constitution?

Sweet.  Thanks for making that point.

Sinergy




        I'm growing accustomed to your nifty little way of saying, "Well fuck me to tears, I can't argue with the point you made."



Lordandmaster -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 9:12:30 PM)

I didn't see the movie, so I won't dispute this, but you can't pretend there's no evidence that what happened at Abu Ghraib wasn't encouraged, if not actively mandated, by people above the guards who carried out the acts.  Taguba makes that pretty clear here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Uh huh, and why was Ghosts of Abu Ghraib intellectually dishonest?

 

      I'm just going to copy and paste from a WyrdRich post on the thread discussing the film (I doubt he'll sue [8|] )

"What happened at Abu Graib was ugly, but the film wasn’t really about that.  It was an attempt to shift the responsibility from the guards who performed the acts to the highest levels of the administration.  Such a case might be made, but “Ghosts of Abu Graib” makes it in a dishonest way.  Creating propaganda is as much about what you leave out, as what you put in.  What this film leaves out is critical.

     There was plenty of footage from the Milgram Experiment, where it was demonstrated that people will act in violation of their basic values in obedience to authority.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment   The implication was made that these soldiers would only have done such things under coercion. What was never mentioned, was the far more applicable Stanford Prison Experiment, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment .  I consider such an omission clear evidence of dishonest intent on the part of the films producers."



TheHeretic -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 9:28:41 PM)

       I wouldn't try to make such an argument, LaM.  My opinion is that whoever decided to put reservists in there as guards were quite familiar with Stanford, and what would happen. 

      The ethics of such psychological "softening up" for interrogation would be another topic.



Lordandmaster -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 9:51:12 PM)

Well, baby steps, I guess.  It wasn't so long ago that right-wingers were saying nothing really bad happened at Abu Ghraib and most of the photos were fakes.  Now at least you guys admit that not everything was hunky dory.  Eventually the whole truth will come out.



TheHeretic -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 10:09:52 PM)

       You can take it that way if you like.  I'll still argue that most of those pics were mild in comparison to the interest lists on this board.  Male subs pay extra for that stuff.

     (I know, I know... Consent.  I just find the irony of the shock and outrage sometimes seen when the subject is discussed here highly amusing.)


       edit to add:  I'd appreciate if you didn't lump my views in with the "right-wingers" quite so casually.  I piss them off too [:D]  



Owner59 -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 10:12:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Just skip the movie and start the smear campaigns and character assassinations.




        Doesn't always work that way.  You had to see Ghosts of Abu Ghraib, for instance, to understand how deeply intellectually dishonest a film it was.  It probably won't be what the film includes, but what they choose to leave out, that will allow a decision if it is documentary or propagandist crap.

      I even see the Michael Moore films, as soon as they are available as bootlegs.


I`ll watch/view/read anything.I want to hear the debunking,the conspiracy theories,and empirical facts.When I hear someone pitch an idea,I want to hear his opponents side.I want to know the other sides responce,and what they`re about to.I want to know who has a "dog in the fight"(horrible analogy,sorry),or who`s to gain or lose.

I like seeing the sides compete ,seeing the ideas compete..No one really knows what will become truth,or what ideas will win favor and acceptance.

For the most part,the truth becomes true.

Peace



Lordandmaster -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 10:12:16 PM)

Yes, I'm shocked and outraged that my government tortures its prisoners.  And it doesn't make it any easier to learn that most of them were innocent.

You can be cynical about it; it only tells me that I have higher aspirations for my nation than you do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

     (I know, I know... Consent.  I just find the irony of the shock and outrage sometimes seen when the subject is discussed here highly amusing.)



Owner59 -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 10:27:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Just skip the movie and start the smear campaigns and character assassinations.




        Doesn't always work that way.  You had to see Ghosts of Abu Ghraib, for instance, to understand how deeply intellectually dishonest a film it was.  It probably won't be what the film includes, but what they choose to leave out, that will allow a decision if it is documentary or propagandist crap.

      I even see the Michael Moore films, as soon as they are available as bootlegs.


That`s possible,but if you view the trailer, the film interviews a who`s who of the bush administration,and officials on the ground in Iraq.No doubt they`ll be websites for scoffers to gather at,but we`ll see. The film will stand on it`s own.

I`ll watch it just to learn what I can.If bush`s incompetence is discused,it`s his problem.He`s used up his free passes.

Peace



TheHeretic -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 10:47:10 PM)

        I'll check the trailer from a 'puter with a better connection speed.  If it is selling itself as an agenda driven Bush-Bash, I'll pass.  I can get that watching CBS.



Owner59 -> RE: "No End In Sight"-film about Iraq war (7/26/2007 11:20:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

      I'll check the trailer from a 'puter with a better connection speed.  If it is selling itself as an agenda driven Bush-Bash, I'll pass.  I can get that watching CBS.


Fair enough. I don`t think you`ll be disappointed.From what I`ve seen, read and heard ,it`s fact based and insightful.



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