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Hard Punishment - 6/27/2005 7:01:11 PM

aa

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Joined: 11/11/2004
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Do you have experience of a real hard lashing as a punishment for a very bad behavior as hard as the slave/ Submission could not seat or walk for a week?

If yes what was that misbehavior?

If you are the person who has been punished, what was your feeling after that?

Do you believe in this kind of punishments?

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/27/2005 9:36:36 PM

perverseangelic

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From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aa

Do you have experience of a real hard lashing as a punishment for a very bad behavior as hard as the slave/ Submission could not seat or walk for a week?

Gotta say, something that left me unable to walk for a week would be an incredibly inefficient punishment. Sure, it'd teach me not to do something, but it'd also deprive my partner of my service for that week. (assuming you are physically incapable of walking, not just that it's uncomfortable)

As I've said on previous threads, my partner doesn't use sensation play for punishment. He wants sensations to be something I can sink into. Too, while I might hate the feeling of such an interaction, I'd probably be able to enjoy it. That kinda kills the effectivness of punishment

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to aa)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/27/2005 11:00:41 PM

Rubyb

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From: California
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Great questions.

No, I don't believe in these kinds of punishments. It's negative re-enforcement and potentially damaging to your sub/slave both mentally and physically.

If my sub/slave is into pain, then I'd rather use it as a reward.

If he/she is not into pain, then this type of punishment can cause a great deal of fear and disharmony in the relationship.

I prefer to punish my pet by taking away privileges. It's devastating for him to be told he's disappointed me. As I cherish and protect him, the last thing I would want to do is physically or emotionally harm him. He's been through the type of punishments you describe in his past and I've made a promise to not treat him that way.

Have I experienced this type of punishment?
Let's just say I've witnessed it and its damaging effects.

< Message edited by Rubyb -- 6/27/2005 11:01:04 PM >

(in reply to aa)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 5:00:51 AM

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Rubyb - I have to say your words are wise and reflect my opinion 100%.

Let's just say as much as I wouldn't even discipline a child physically because I consider it to be unevolved and a sign of weakness in communication skills, I would even less punish my submissive physically (unless of course it was a little play punishment game) for the same reasons but even more importantly because my submissive would be my partner and not my child.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Rubyb)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 6:09:05 AM

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Joined: 11/27/2004
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quote:

undefined

Well I can say this I been there and don't want to go there again...When I first was in sessions with my Master I was wild, disrespectful, I was just plain Hellfire,so it was hard to get us of being in order, maybe it was my speaking tone or just plain being rude. All I can say His Hands which what he use at that time my butt was burning, hand print and couldn't sit wasn't thought of.Nope I have learn to behave "His" can be cruel in that dept.

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A Kind man Benefits himself,But A Cruel man brings trouble on himself.
~His Angel~

(in reply to aa)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 6:12:50 AM

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Hard Punishment, IMO is nothing short of abuse - not good.

Hard punishment as a reward to a masochist - excellent use of such a tool.

Punishments are not meant to be fun, cause damage and are meant to teach. Beating, thrashing or spanking in a way you have suggested is nothing but abuse of 'authority' - and teaches nothing but fear.

Peace and Love

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to aa)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 7:44:52 AM

Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aa

Do you have experience of a real hard lashing as a punishment for a very bad behavior as hard as the slave/ Submission could not seat or walk for a week?

If yes what was that misbehavior?

If you are the person who has been punished, what was your feeling after that?

Do you believe in this kind of punishments?

I've never really had to punish that much - I like pleasers. Pleasers are dying to, well, please. Knowing she has dissapointed to a pleaser is like the worst feeling on earth. I'm more about praise and encouragement and less about punishment.

And uhh, not sure if you were exagerating, but "can't sit down or walk for a week" is injury. Injury isn't my bag. Suffering is - not injury. I don't injure my property.

(in reply to aa)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 7:47:57 AM

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Joined: 2/12/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rubyb

Great questions.

No, I don't believe in these kinds of punishments. It's negative re-enforcement and potentially damaging to your sub/slave both mentally and physically.

If my sub/slave is into pain, then I'd rather use it as a reward.

If he/she is not into pain, then this type of punishment can cause a great deal of fear and disharmony in the relationship.

I prefer to punish my pet by taking away privileges. It's devastating for him to be told he's disappointed me. As I cherish and protect him, the last thing I would want to do is physically or emotionally harm him. He's been through the type of punishments you describe in his past and I've made a promise to not treat him that way.

Have I experienced this type of punishment?
Let's just say I've witnessed it and its damaging effects.

Actually, your mixing up reinforcement and punishment:

quote:

Positive reinforcement is the contingent presentation of a stimulus following a response, resulting in an increased likelihood of the response occurring in the future. Negative reinforcement is the contingent withdrawal of a stimulus following a response, resulting in an increased likelihood of the response occurring in the future. Unconditioned reinforcement, also called primary reinforcement, is the presentation of primary reinforcers, stimuli which are inherently reinforcing (such as affection, food, sex, or sleep). Conditioned reinforcement, also called secondary reinforcement, is the presentation of a stimulus which has acquired reinforcing power through association with primary reinforcers. Social reinforcement is a form of conditioned reinforcement in which the reinforcer involves some sort of interaction with others. Positive punishment is the contingent presentation of a stimulus following a response, resulting in a decreased likelihood of the response occurring in the future, whereas negative punishment is the contingent withdrawal of a stimulus following a response, resulting in an decreased likelihood of the response occurring in the future.

Reinforcement

But we knew what you meant

(in reply to Rubyb)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 8:10:35 AM

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LOL I'm sorry, coming back from Leather Retreat and seeing dozens of people beaten this badly just cuz they absolutely loved it, I have no perspective I can give on this.

Let me settle down for a few days in the world of non-decadent S&M and I will have some for you.

(in reply to aa)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 1:20:11 PM

Rubyb

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Joined: 6/27/2005
From: California
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

But we knew what you meant

Thanks.

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Ruby Bloodstone
Author and fan of erotic vampire fiction.
Lifemate and pet to T, Nathaniel's Miss

Ruby's portfolio at writing.com:
http://Writing.Com/authors/rubyb

(in reply to Faramir)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 7:31:54 PM

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Rubyb

I totally agree with You about this. I would no more damage My submissive to the point where he cannot walk/move for a week then I would crack the spine of a book or kick a cat. I believe in taking care of My toys and possessions.

On days (and I have them) when My temper is high I also leave the toys in the toybox because I will not play unless I am sure that I am in control of Myself and My emotions.

Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to Rubyb)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 8:02:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GentleLady

On days (and I have them) when My temper is high I also leave the toys in the toybox because I will not play unless I am sure that I am in control of Myself and My emotions.

Gentle Lady

True, though having high temper is not the same as being out of control, A lot of people take high emotions, including anger and frustration and turn it into some very intense scenes.

(in reply to GentleLady)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/28/2005 8:44:44 PM

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Agreed EmeraldSlave2....the most intense scenes do come with intense emotions...however I know when I am angry enough to be out of control and will not take that risk. It happens maybe once every couple of years but I become so angry I am not thinking straight and therefore I remove Myself from all situations until I become rational again. This is very different from being pissed off or upset or annoyed (where I do not lose My self control). When it is just a matter of being pissed off then I can channel the intensity of the energy into a scene.

For Myself I define 'angry' as being when the anger is so intense I am literally out of control and dangerous on a physical level. I define anything less then that as 'pissed off' or 'annoyed' or 'ticked' or some other term. I am aware that when the majority of people refer to 'anger' they are referring to what I call being 'pissed off'. However I do not have a better term to describe those occassions when I am so angry it becomes dangerous.

Hope that makes more sense
Gentle Lady

_____________________________

All things are possible to those who have patience, try, and are willing to learn.

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/29/2005 11:07:34 AM

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Joined: 5/6/2005
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Why punish your submissive or slave in a way that deprives you of their service? I echo perverseangelic's statement. To punish that way is only, ultimately, punishing yourself.

I also agree with Faramir's statement that when "pleasers" hear that they have disappointed, it is much worse than any other punishment. I am a pleaser myself and the only time I've ever felt truly punished by my Dom is when he says "You have disappointed me." (I think so far it's happened once.) It was the most awful feeling in the world.

I also agree with the fact that if your sub/slave is into pain then that's not really the most effecaious (sp?) punishment.

I just don't understand punishing so hard as to damage your property or render your sub/slave useless for a week. Seems silly to me.

(in reply to perverseangelic)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/29/2005 11:21:49 AM

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Joined: 6/20/2005
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i have been punished severely enough that i could not walk for several days before, but it was not from a lashing or spanking type of punishment

my offense was that i was not someone else......

how did i feel?
severely depressed, very used, exploited & abused, not valued at all
but also very fulfilled

it was from a previous Dom, not Dragonzaymaster

< Message edited by zaynab -- 6/29/2005 11:24:29 AM >

_____________________________

zaynab[DM]

quote:

i used to care... but now i take a pill for that

(in reply to aa)

RE: Hard Punishment - 6/29/2005 11:49:52 AM

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Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
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I do not give hard lashings for punishment... I have ONE whip which is *never* used in scene. It is My black and silver braided "whip of office" and I wear it on my belt. In 23 years, I have only used it once. One stroke. My slave was so miserable, ashamed and unhappy that she had disapponted Me and brought the punishment upon herself, that she was in tears before the stroke even landed. It made such an impression that I've not had to punish her ever again.

True punishment should address the four aspects of the slave, mind, body, heart and soul. The body is given a short, painful consequence, the mind is given a lesson to learn and remember, the heart is given the feeling of having disappointed or angered the Dominantbut that love is still there, and the soul is given a way to atone for the misdeed.

Punishment must be short, sure, swift and secure. The four 'S'es
Short, in that it is no longer than a few seconds, and then it's over. Sure, in that if you sday you are going to punish, you must follow through (this, of course is AFTER your sub has been permitted to explain or beg mercy) Swift, in that it must follow the misdeed within a day. Secure, meaning that AFTER the punishment, comfort and a rapprochement is possible and occurs in order to repair the breach.

In My service, punishment is never more than one blow. I never punish while angry and I never punish before I've heard My slave or sub out completely and given them the chance to tell Me *why* they misbehaved or transgressed. Justice tempered with mercy.

Lady Sonelle

(in reply to aa)

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