RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (Full Version)

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domiguy -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/29/2007 6:32:41 AM)

As usual I agree with velvet....Many times when this happens it is truly an honest mistake....The child is well taken care of, loved and provided for and the parent just made a simple mistake with horrid consequences.

I have been around many paents who have admitted at one time or another of missplacing a kid......The results were comical....Not life threatening....But if the wrong set of circumstances ocurred...Who knows?

Anyone who would suggest that these types of parents should be punished further has no idea of the meaning of justice.




SeeksOnlyOne -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/29/2007 6:46:46 AM)

i cant imagine "forgetting" my child in a car.......but if it happened, i cant imagine needing any more punishment than just knowing i did it.........

if it happened cause they were drunk or stoned or went to get laid or something dumb like that, and left the kid in the car, public hanging would be good, imho....

but if truely just a freak accident, they have a life sentence with no possibility of parole anyhow in their mind......nothing society could do would make that any worse.....




sophia37 -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/29/2007 9:32:06 AM)

Thats a shocking story. I also read a story about a guy who put his kid on the roof of his car in order to put stuff away inside first, then forgot the baby on the roof. Horrified drivers tried to get him to pull over but to no avail. Eventually the baby flew off the car and landed on the side of the road.

I guess the guy was hoping to get some crash test money  for using the car seat and his baby as test subjects. The baby thankfully came out without a scratch. Sales of Craceo car seats rose dramitcally. lol 




soultoshare -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/29/2007 10:31:07 AM)

I live in the Phoenix, AZ area, and this is a tough one, sort of.  Even placing the child in the backseat isn't a viable excuse.....I totally fail to see how one can forget a child.  Even with my son in the back seat in his carseat, I still had enough paraphenalia in the front seat to remind me that there was a child with me.  Even a simple trip to the grocery store meant dragging along a stroller and diaper bag!

Last summer, as usual, there were several infant car deaths in the valley.  One was an infant who died after the mother of 5 told her 5 year old child to get the infant out of the car....said 5 year old instead took off to play, mother didn't miss the child until several, (the number7 comes to mind) hours later.  Now how she could be inside without knowing that the infant was missing is so way beyond me that I just can't see it.  Why she didn't take responsibility to make sure the child was inside is something we will never know.  Yes, she will have to live with the guilt, but in my opinion, what she did shows a clear case of negligence on her part.  "Forgetting" about a child will never fly as far as I'm concerned.  Infants dying in vehicles here are almost as prevalent as children drowning because "I just turned my back for a minute", and both should be considered negligent, and the parents charged accordingly.  If this occurred more often, maybe less people would "forget".......even if it was only ONE baby saved, it would have served it's purpose.  Am I a hardass?  Maybe.....but I do know what happens when the body gets overheated, and the core temperature rises.....infants suffer seizures when they get a fever over 105 degrees......when some of these children are found, their core temperature is as high as 115 degrees. Having an idea of what the poor child suffers thru, I have a phyical reaction also every time I hear of another senseless death.  We've had animals die in vehicles, and the owners are arrested for cruelty......what makes a dog so special, and a child not?  The thinking of "well, they will have to live with what they did" may sound noble, but for the ones that intentionally left their kids in the vehicle, I say throw the book at them.....for murder, not manslaughter.....manslaughter for those that claim they simply "forgot" they had the child with them.

Damn...I got angry when I read the article last night......working back up to it here, so I'll hop off the soapbox.  Just my .05.




feastie -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/29/2007 11:57:08 AM)

I have two UMs.  Of all the things I can forget, have forgotten and will forget, (as I am quite absentminded at times), my UMs are not one of them.  Sorry, I cannot believe anyone else could forget an UM was in the car, certainly not for what was it, seven hours?




Aswad -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/29/2007 5:09:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

I can only imagine what that child went through before dying - it's almost too horrible to contemplate.


Same thing with that guy who got dragged to death after a car. Someone around here tied their dog's leash to the back of their car, since it was too hot to leave it in the car, and then went shopping. Problem being that he forgot the dog wasn't in the back seat where it usually would be. The dog miraculously survived the trip home, though.

Thinking about what is actually experienced in such a situation is part of how I fail to see what is running through the heads of people like those girls who set fire to that cat some time ago. Or people in general, really, with all the sick stuff they do.

That's not even considering older stuff, like the Brazen Bull and so forth.

Paraphrasing Babbage: I cannot rightly apprehend the confusion of ideas that would provoke such a thing.




Aswad -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/29/2007 5:13:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

They don't need jail, there is no justice in that, what they need is forgiveness (for themselves) and compassion.


Quite agree. No point in punishing for honest mistakes. Gross negligence would be another matter. But, really, people are always looking for a scapegoat. They simply cannot accept the notion that bad things can happen without having someone to assign blame to and then subsequently punish. We have really not come any distance at all from when people used to send a goat off into the desert for Azazyel, to carry away such blame. In fact, some places have regressed, by throwing judicial elections into the mix.




JackM1 -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/29/2007 6:57:45 PM)

having worked with UM's for a number of years in a paid child care setting, i can easily say that when looking after a group of them(in my case, and in this case, im sure, varying in age) its horrifyingly easy to forget one or two. this is the reason we have strict laws that say what the child to adult ratio is for every age. i'll tell you all a story; not too long ago, i was babysitting at a wedding with a relative of mine. this was a favor to my sister, who was the party planner and needed two people that she could trust too look after what she was told would be a small number of um's(this was supposed to be an adult only wedding, and it was requested that there be no um's on the wedding invitation) of course, people are assholes, and most brought their um's with them. in the course of say, half an hour, the number of um's my cousin and i had to look after increased from 4 school age um's to over 25 ranging from 1.5(having never been away from mommy) to 12(who were nearly my height and romping around the room like elephants,as if there were no small um's underfoot). even though i tried to get every name, and tried to keep count of how many i had in my care, we still had one um escape upstairs to the reception hall, and many a small um was left unattended for over an hour at a time while we were trying to get food to the very demanding older um's or trying to placate the other small ones who were traumatized, being separated from their primary caregivers for the first time in their lives.

i personally pride myself in being very carefull with the UM's under my care, but sometimes there are just circumstances where being able to give your full attention to every single demanding little body is just not possible. if it were my choice, there would have been another adult helping, and a separated area for the smaller ones. i might also mention, that the parent of the um that ran upstairs without our knowing(we had no door to close off the area where we were) yelled at me for endangering her um, and thus kept my attention away from the other ums, even though she could clearly see that the room was in utter chaos by that point. (all of which was her and her relatives faults, i might add, because they were not supposed to bring um's at all, much less infants that needed to be breast fed by their mother in front of all of the other um's).

also, when dealing with a lot of stress, its very easy to forget something even as important as a um. im sure there are many on cm that have accidentally left their dog in the car when trying to get chores done, or forgot about a burning flame when something demanded their immediate attention. the article quoted someone as saying that, because we think we could never forget our um's, we simply do not remind ourselves that they are there. i believe this is true; just by reading these posts, everyone seems just SHOCKED that a small being, that doesnt make much noise when sleeping, and is strapped into a seat, facing the opposite direction from the rearview mirror could simply be forgotten! ive had parents get out of their cars, and in their rush to simply get their um into the classroom before speeding off to another stressful day at work, have completely forgotten the um in the car. its like a father whos wife goes into labor and rushes into the car, speeding to the hospital, only to realize that his wife is not in the car with him. that situation is comical, but what if it was a um that was left behind? it can and does happen, though thankfully most of the time it results in a rather amusing story later on in life. i believe in swift justice being handed out to those who deserve it, but does a greiving parent really deserve to then be taken away from their other um's and family? in the situation described in the article, i believe that the father truly suffered a huge loss, and it wouldnt have been right to take him away from his other um's. the way it sounded, he was a very stressed out individual, who was trying to take care of his family the best he could on his own, while dealing with a number of other life stressors. accidents happen, its just unfortunate that some lead to much more serious consequences than others.




camille65 -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/30/2007 8:12:42 AM)

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/07/30/lefttodie.legal.ap/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

I'm the youngest of 4 and my mother was pretty well drained of the child raising thrill by the time I came along.
She never left me in a car alone & this was back in the days before seatbelts were in all cars lol. She simply didn't leave me, I went with her at all times.
I can see how someone gets distracted with such horrific results.
There is no way that I could decide on what is punishment for these parents, gods I think the guilt itself would be simply crushing.

The article I linked to made me cry, it is all just messed up.




petdave -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/30/2007 6:03:18 PM)

My sentence is:
"Survival of the Fittest strikes again, aided by solar power."
i'm not sure if's a good sentence, but it'd be a freakin' sweet headline.
Oh, wait:
"Implacable Power of Greatest Energy Source in Solar System Thins Gene Pool"
That's cooler.
i guess for a sentence i'd pick "Whuh? Ya mean it gets HOT inside a closed-up car in the summertime? Whut if one of the winders be replaced by a plastic sheet an' duck tape?"
Fuck, that's two sentences.
i'm no good at this. NEXT! [:'(]




Sinergy -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/30/2007 6:08:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: feastie

I have two UMs.  Of all the things I can forget, have forgotten and will forget, (as I am quite absentminded at times), my UMs are not one of them.  Sorry, I cannot believe anyone else could forget an UM was in the car, certainly not for what was it, seven hours?


I go into situations where there are UMs around, and I find myself paying attention to all and sundry.

I suppose it is all those summers as a camp counselor.

Sinergy




Griswold -> RE: Sentences for allowing UMs to die in hot cars (7/30/2007 8:44:26 PM)

What is the price for being young and stupid?

What is the price for being forthright, but having missplaced judgement?

I've never been a parent, always wanted to be...

Nuttin but respect on this end.




quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Sentences vary when kids die in hot cars
By ALLEN G. BREED, AP National Writer1 hour, 12 minutes ago



Kevin Kelly is a law-abiding citizen who, much distracted, left his beloved 21-month-old daughter in a sweltering van for seven hours. Frances Kelly had probably been dead for more than four hours by the time a neighbor noticed her strapped in her car seat; when rescue personnel removed the girl from the vehicle, her skin was red and blistered, her fine, carrot-colored hair matted with sweat. Two hours later, her body temperature was still nearly 106 degrees.

What is the appropriate punishment for a doting parent responsible for his child's death? A judge eventually spared Kelly a lengthy term in prison. Still, it is a question that is asked dozens of times each year.

Since the mid-1990s, the number of children who died of heat exhaustion while trapped inside vehicles has risen dramatically, totaling around 340 in the past 10 years. Ironically, one reason was a change parent-drivers made to protect their kids after juvenile air-bag deaths peaked in 1995 — they put them in the back seat, where they are more easily forgotten.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070728/ap_on_re_us/left_to_die




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